Doctors advise masks to avoid the Swine flu…Not in Virginia Bubba

peternap · April 26, 2009, 06:59:27 PM

http://news.oldva.org/

Americans told to wear masks as swine flu spreads round globe

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article6173927.ece

North of the border, in the US, doctors were advising people worried about the illness to buy painters' masks from DIY stores as a precautionary measure.

MAKES SENSE, DOESN'T IT!

The problem is, wearing a mask without an affidavit, not a note or prescription from a Doctor...is a class 6 FELONY in Virginia.

§ 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, §§ 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c. 19.)

I brought this up with then Senator Bill Bolling a number of years ago. His answer, "Law enforcement will use good judgment in enforcing this".

Bill is from Hanover...The county that an officer shot and killed a man for DWI. The county that arrested a man for sitting on his front step waiting for his wife. Right Bill.....Good Judgment...this is a felony, not a parking ticket.

Hopefully they will change this idiotic law sometime, but how many people need to become sick or die until they do?

Squirl · April 27, 2009, 09:38:27 AM

If the CDC or Surgeon General Issue a decree, then it would make Virginia's law moot. Supremacy Clause.

April 27, 2009, 10:15:08 AM

I agree with the senator's response.

Wearing the masks to prevent yourself from getting the pig flu is legal. All you have to do is tell the officer that you are not trying to conceal your identity.

"a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer"

This just seems like a law that was made to allow a greater sentencing against criminals.

StinkerBell · April 27, 2009, 10:35:34 AM

What if you are a Muslim woman who must wear a Burka?

NM_Shooter · April 27, 2009, 01:02:06 PM

What do our health care forum members thing about wearing a mask to prevent catching the flu?

I thought that if you are healthy, the most common way to catch a virus is from hand contact and then touching your eyes / nose. I thought that a mask is good for keeping sick people from sneezing all over something, but that a healthy person wearing a mask does not get much benefit.

Anybody know?

April 27, 2009, 01:08:44 PM

Wash your hands a lot! Stay away from those that are ill.

Pox Eclipse · April 27, 2009, 04:51:10 PM

Masks are to reduce the spread of airborne viruses from people who are already infected. A mask will do very little to protect you from becoming infected. Any warning to buy masks is a useless sop to prevent panic. Remember when Homeland Security recommended sealing your house in duct tape and plastic sheeting to protect against terrorist attacks? This is the same thing.

MountainDon · April 27, 2009, 05:41:32 PM

From the CDC...

A flu pandemic is an outbreak caused by a new flu virus that spreads around the world. The virus will spread easily from person to person, mostly through coughing and sneezing. Because the virus is new to people, everyone will be at risk of getting it.

During a flu pandemic, you can use simple actions to help protect yourself and others from becoming sick with the flu. No single action protects completely. If used together, the steps below can help reduce the chances of becoming infected.

• Wash your hands often with soap and water. Use an alcohol-based hand cleaner if soap and water are not available.

• Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue or your arm when you cough and sneeze.

• Stay away from other people if you are ill.

• Avoid crowded places and large gatherings as much as possible.

There may be times during a pandemic when you must be in a crowded setting or in close contact (within 6 feet) with people who might be ill. During such times, the use of a facemask or a respirator might help prevent the spread of pandemic flu.

Very little is known about the benefits of wearing facemasks and respirators to help control the spread of pandemic flu. In the absence of clear science, the steps below offer a "best estimate" to help guide decisions. They will be revised as new information becomes available.

Consider wearing a facemask if

• You are sick with the flu and think you might have close contact with other people.

• You live with someone who has the flu (you therefore might be in the early stages of infection) and need to be in a crowded place. Limit the amount of time you spend in these crowded places and wear a facemask while you are there.

• You are well and do not expect to be in close contact with a sick person but need to be in a crowded place. Limit the amount of time you spend in these crowded places and wear a facemask while you are there.

Consider wearing a respirator if

• You are well and you expect to be in close contact with people who are known or thought to be sick with pandemic flu. Limit the amount of time you are in close contact with these people and wear a respirator during this time. These recommendations apply if you must take care of a sick person at home.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/masksrespirators/

Also...
For health care workers exposed to infected patients, N-95 (or higher) respirators are recommended, in conjunction with personal protective equipment (e.g., gloves, gowns, and goggles), standard and droplet precautions, respiratory hygiene, cough etiquette, vaccinations, and early diagnosis and treatment. If supplies of N-95 (or higher) respirators are not available, surgical masks are recommended for patients who are infected to help reduce the potential for spread of virus when these people cough or sneeze.

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the Department of Labor (DOL) will continue to review and update as needed its public health guidance on the use of masks and respirators by the general public and at-risk workers.

http://www.pandemicflu.gov/faq/pandemicinfluenza/mask.html

peternap · April 27, 2009, 05:49:52 PM

Quote from: Sonoran on April 27, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
I agree with the senator's response.

Wearing the masks to prevent yourself from getting the pig flu is legal. All you have to do is tell the officer that you are not trying to conceal your identity.

"a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer"

This just seems like a law that was made to allow a greater sentencing against criminals.

You have more faith in Police Officers than I do Sonorian.
And Squirl, in order to supercede Virginia law, it would either take an emergency order from the Governor or martial law from the President.

April 27, 2009, 08:28:37 PM

Even if the police officer arrests you in a manner that is not lawful. You are innocent until proven guilty. You may go before a judge or jury, I'm not sure what crime determines judge or jury. But you can tell them there was an outbreak of the swine flu, I was wearing a dust mask!! I'm sure they wouldn't make the same mistake as the police officer.

peternap · April 27, 2009, 08:47:11 PM

Quote from: Sonoran on April 27, 2009, 08:28:37 PM
Even if the police officer arrests you in a manner that is not lawful. You are innocent until proven guilty. You may go before a judge or jury, I'm not sure what crime determines judge or jury. But you can tell them there was an outbreak of the swine flu, I was wearing a dust mask!! I'm sure they wouldn't make the same mistake as the police officer.

Sure...that's true, and naive!
You could probably beat it but remember, we're talking about a felony. Your life gets put on hold for the next six months, you spend 5 or 6 grand for a lawyer and you still have to go to the expense of having it expunged from your record assuming you do win.
What a price for a stupid Byrd era law designed to keep the Klan at bay.

The law is here and the Klan is here and the honest people are the only ones who pay any attention to it.

MountainDon · April 27, 2009, 10:33:11 PM

It's another case of a law enacted with good intentions that comes home to hit the innocent with unexpected consequences. The more laws that are made, the more that happens and that stinks.

That law needs repealing, swine flu or no swine flu.

Sonoran · April 27, 2009, 11:33:15 PM

PN: Is this a law that is regularly enforced in your area? Or is a law that the cops only use to prevent the Klan from practicing?

I ask if it is regularly enforced because I've heard about lots of strange laws that were made back in the day, but are forgotten and not enforced, yet still in the books.

Here's an example: Up until the 1970's it was legal to kill Mormons in Missouri because of the Mormon extermination order issued by Govenor Lilburn W. Boggs

But I know there are many strange laws, this is the only one I could think of. I know that even though it was legal to kill Mormons, no one would, of course. It's just one of those laws that no one pays attention to.

MountainDon · April 27, 2009, 11:58:02 PM

The problem with laws that are not generally enforced or ones that nobody pays attention to is that if some dxxk-head officer does arrest you for it, that causes un-necessary trouble for you. Even an arrest with a dismissal can lead to problems.

When I was completing forms, being probed medically and generally jumping through hoops on command, to be legally admitted to the USA as as Permanent Resident Alien, one of the questions was "have you ever been arrested". A Yes answer meant more paperwork had to be comleted, more investigation would have to be done and the process would take longer and could provide grounds to refuse entry.

QuoteHere's an example: Up until the 1970's it was legal to kill Mormons in Missouri because of the Mormon extermination order issued by Govenor Lilburn W. Boggs

But I know there are many strange laws, this is the only one I could think of. I know that even though it was legal to kill Mormons, no one would, of course.

"no one would, of course". How do you resolve the 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre with that? Of course this happened in UT, not MO. But all the same 120 Mormons were killed by people who basically did not like them. They had actually surrendered, then were slaughtered. Odd that it didn't happen more in MO if it was legal there.

But I guess I digress or stretch the point.

I hope that law has been rescinded.

April 28, 2009, 12:05:29 AM

So where you original from MD?

Sonoran · April 28, 2009, 12:59:05 AM

The reason it didn't happen in Missouri is because the saints didn't stick around very long after the extermination order was issued.

I don't see why the would have wanted to stay around before it was issued.

And honestly, I don't know a lot about the Mormon Meadow Massacre. I know that PBS did a history of the Mormon Church and it was included. I just want to let anyone who saw that program know that I was upset by it for the following reasons: The two main points of the show were Polygamy and the mormon meadow massacre. The majority of the commentary was by Non-LDS members and any LDS commentary wasn't supplemental to the main points of the show.

I'm reading a Biography of Joseph Smith and I'm sure that I will come across it in my reading eventually.

Oh, I had to come back and Modify. I just remembered something. When I said, "no one would of course," I was refering to recent times. 1900-1970ish

peternap · April 28, 2009, 01:35:03 AM

Yes, this is enforced often enough to cause concern. There have been cases of people threatened with arrest for not removing their full face helmets while paying for gas.

I had to remind a bicycle cop last winter, that wearing a balaclava was illegal. There is no exception for law enforcement. Poor fellow looked like Rudolph at the end of the day without it.

Sassy · April 28, 2009, 03:07:30 AM

CDC to mix avian, human flu viruses in pandemic study

Robert Roos * News Editor

Jan 14, 2004 (CIDRAP News) – One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/jan1404hybrids.html

also http://www.rense.com/general85/wicked.htm

cordwood · April 28, 2009, 08:48:53 AM

Quote from: MountainDon on April 27, 2009, 11:58:02 PM
The problem with laws that are not generally enforced or ones that nobody pays attention to is that if some dxxk-head officer does arrest you for it, that causes un-necessary trouble for you. Even an arrest with a dismissal can lead to problems.

When I was completing forms, being probed medically and generally jumping through hoops on command, to be legally admitted to the USA as as Permanent Resident Alien, one of the questions was "have you ever been arrested". A Yes answer meant more paperwork had to be comleted, more investigation would have to be done and the process would take longer and could provide grounds to refuse entry.

QuoteHere's an example: Up until the 1970's it was legal to kill Mormons in Missouri because of the Mormon extermination order issued by Govenor Lilburn W. Boggs

But I know there are many strange laws, this is the only one I could think of. I know that even though it was legal to kill Mormons, no one would, of course.

"no one would, of course". How do you resolve the 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre with that? Of course this happened in UT, not MO. But all the same 120 Mormons were killed by people who basically did not like them. They had actually surrendered, then were slaughtered. Odd that it didn't happen more in MO if it was legal there.

But I guess I digress or stretch the point.

I hope that law has been rescinded.

The funny thing about facts is they can really mess up a story if you get them WRONG!

The Mountain Meadows Massacre was "BY" Mormons on a westward bound wagon train from Arkansas!
The Mountain Meadows Massacre
In 1857, Alexander Fancher and John T. Baker loaded 140 men, women, and children into 40 wagons at Caravan Springs in northwest Arkansas and headed west. They were more than halfway through their journey to California on September 7, when they set up camp for the night in Mountain Meadows in the southwestern corner of Utah. Then the emigrants were brutally attacked, and all but 17 children were killed. Who attacked the group is an ongoing debate, but historical accounts tell of a combined force of local Mormon militia and Paiute Indians. Executed in 1877, Mormon Bishop John D. Lee was the only person punished for the crime. A photograph taken at the time shows him sitting on his own coffin.
Sorry Don, Just a little cut & paste editing and you should be fine!

pagan · April 28, 2009, 09:47:57 AM

If I remember correctly, cordwood, the Mountain Meadows Massacre was ordered by Brigham Young. Have you heard this as well?

April 28, 2009, 09:53:44 AM

OOOOPS! I guess that's how false rumors get started. I had it all right except "who done it". Thanks guys

MountainDon · April 28, 2009, 09:55:40 AM

Quote from: StinkerBell on April 28, 2009, 12:05:29 AM
So where you original from MD?

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.

Home of/famous for...

Randy Bachman, musician, (The Guess Who) & Bachman-Turner Overdrive (BTO)
Burton Cummings, musician, (The Guess Who)
Fred Turner, musician, Bachman-Turner Overdrive (BTO), childhood & high school friend

Anna Paquin, actress

The Crash Test Dummies, musicians

Terry Sawchuk, NHL goalie

David Steinberg, actor, comedian

Sir William Stephenson (aka Intrepid), spy, man on whom the character of James Bond is based

Neil Young, musician (raised in Winnipeg but not born there

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 10 times Canadian Football League Champion

Winnipeg Goldeye (smoked fish; excellent), fresh pickerel fillets from Lake Winnipeg to the north, Fort Garry Brewery (I miss their Frontier Pilsner), Ray & Jerry's Steakhouse, the Bridge Drive Inn (best milkshakes and soft ice cream ever!) and Juniors Drive In (best french fries in the world and a chili dog to kill for).

Sam the Cameraman, the best damn camera store in town, now demised.

Gateway to the North, superb fishing, polar bears, moose hunts...

And presently the city ranked 4th highest in Canada for overall crime, and the highest rate among cities with populations greater than 500,000.

Anything else you'd like to know.

apaknad · April 28, 2009, 10:01:08 AM

i just heard a dr. on tv say the masks don't do any good if you wear them except if an infected person sneezes directly at you or it can stop some spread if an infected person sneezes into a mask they are wearing. except for large droplets, they are basically useless. infection goes right through the masks. maybe sassy has an update on this.
oops, looks like i should have read ahead.

Sassy · April 28, 2009, 10:19:51 AM

You're right about the masks being ineffective, apaknad. When we have people who are actively coughing, we have them wear those little blue masks yu se everyone wearing, so they don't spread the infection. MtnDon had a good posting that went over a lot of good info.

When we have to go into isolation rooms to take care of people with tuberculosis, we wear a N95 mask - that is supposed to protect us... hopefully it does - I've never had a positive TB test in over 24 yrs (nursing school clinical, student nursing & as an RN). We have to get checked every 6 mo's.

I really think this is a manufactured scare - here are some more links

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LR454443.htm
http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13554
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/04/02/lab.257/
http://spitfirelist.com/?p=106

Draw your own conclusions...

StinkerBell · April 28, 2009, 10:58:37 AM

Quote from: MountainDon on April 28, 2009, 09:55:40 AM
Quote from: StinkerBell on April 28, 2009, 12:05:29 AM
So where you original from MD?

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.

Home of/famous for...

Randy Bachman, musician, (The Guess Who) & Bachman-Turner Overdrive (BTO)
Burton Cummings, musician, (The Guess Who)
Fred Turner, musician, Bachman-Turner Overdrive (BTO), childhood & high school friend

Anna Paquin, actress

The Crash Test Dummies, musicians

Terry Sawchuk, NHL goalie

David Steinberg, actor, comedian

Sir William Stephenson (aka Intrepid), spy, man on whom the character of James Bond is based

Neil Young, musician (raised in Winnipeg but not born there

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers, 10 times Canadian Football League Champion

Winnipeg Goldeye (smoked fish; excellent), fresh pickerel fillets from Lake Winnipeg to the north, Fort Garry Brewery (I miss their Frontier Pilsner), Ray & Jerry's Steakhouse, the Bridge Drive Inn (best milkshakes and soft ice cream ever!) and Juniors Drive In (best french fries in the world and a chili dog to kill for).

Sam the Cameraman, the best damn camera store in town, now demised.

Gateway to the North, superb fishing, polar bears, moose hunts...

And presently the city ranked 4th highest in Canada for overall crime, and the highest rate among cities with populations greater than 500,000.

Anything else you'd like to know.

This explains a few things......

Doctors advise masks to avoid the Swine flu…Not in Virginia Bubba

pagan