Poly!#$&##$!!butylene Pipe

[MountainDon]

... that's polybutylene in plain English. Also known as PB $hit pipe.

Our neighborhood, built in 1985-86 comprises homes that are 99+% plumbed with the dreaded polybutylene. Our street has been about 50% re-piped. We had scheduled a re-pipe for this fall after school is back in and we're not staying in the mountains doing productive things like cutting down trees, polishing our marksmanship, building a cabin or crawling over rocks in the Jeep.

Now then, if anyone out there reading this is living in a home that has PB pipes, don't delay. Get re-piped right away. Our schedule for re-piping has been bumped up to start this Monday AM. This morning we were sort of lucky, but not lucky enough.      (We've been turning off the water when leaving town.)

I'd walked through the living room and kitchen and out to the garage where I was removing tools, parts and assorted junk from the Jeep in preparation of picking up more stuff; doors, windows, etc. Within ten minutes there was a shriek from K in the house. It was not one of those "oh there's a spider again" cries; there was more depth to it.     I rushed in, saw water spreading across the floor, the parquet hardwood floor. Dashing to the central bathroom, I shut off the inside main valve. We threw down large towels to form dams, then used small towels to sop up the water. It took maybe an hour to get the floor dried to where there were no droplets. I could see the joints between parquet squares already turning up.

To make a long tale shorter, there's about 60 - 70 sq ft of bad news. But the room is about 400 sq ft.  It's highly unlikely that new floor could be matched/installed next to the old, IMO. We hope that the adjuster realizes that if we had got up 10 to 15 minutes earlier we would have been gone and the water would have run for probably 3 hours. It would have not only covered the parquet in the LR but would have spread into other areas causing untold damages to rugs, furniture, etc. So we hope our "on the jobness" doesn't penalize us with some sort of a half a$$ed "let's patch this up" deal.

There are 6 air movers and a dehumidifier running as I type, wearing my shooting/shop ear muffs. The water is off. Monday the crew will begin the re-pipe, starting in the yard to run a new pipe from the meter to the house; then they'll move inside. The new pipe will be PEX.

So do it now, instead of planning to do it at a more "convenient" time.  You could end up with an indoor wading pond.

PS: we don't meet all the necessary timeline requirements for the PB class action suit benefits; another reason we didn't already get re-piped.

[MountainDon]

Looking at the bright side, always have to look for that, sometimes it's difficult to find... by waiting, putting it off a couple years several small firms specializing in this sort of re-piping have popped up with the increasing frequency or popping pipes and/or fittings. And their prices are far less than those of the larger, full page in the phone book guys. And their referenced customers are all raves, some of them on my street, like directly across the road.

The city may have added to the problem with a recent upping of the water system pressure. 100-120 PSI. I'm also MTL going to hav a pressure reduction/regulation valve installed right after the meter.

[JRR]

Sorry 'bout your event ... but "join the crowd". 

I've already begun digging the ditch to the steet.  House built 1950 or so.  Outside underground I have "Orangeburg" (paper impregnated with petroleum resin?) septic pipe that has various entries of tree roots, and galvanized water supply pipe (rotted/rusted).  In the house there is cast iron septic lines (rusting thru) and copper water supply pipes (lead solder joints).  It all needs to be replaced. 

Really troubling is the fact that some of the cast iron drain line goes under a basement concrete floor.  I'm trying to come up with a "re-route", that will still have some downhill drainage.  The whole neighborhood was built about the same way and in the same year(s).  There's always an open ditch in someone's yard these days.

... and I own two of these relics!

[MountainDon]

We now have a house full of Wirsbo Aquapex pipe with Wirsbo fittings. Job almost completed; at least we have running water in most places right now. K's in the shower! Just have to have the city inspector approve and then they will begin p;atching the holes in the walls.   

While they the plumber was at it I had him install a pressure reducing valve and a new bathtub faucet/shower set in one bathroom. It was done from the "other" side of the wall so the shower tile did not have to be disturbed.

At $4200 plus permit and taxes it was a steal. Small one man and wife team from Bulgaria. Excellent workmanship and work ethic.

[glenn kangiser]

I have a customer I am doing the same for but it is hard copper pipe being dissolved by our water.  It actually leaves a blue streak in the tub and shower head as the water dissolves the copper.



The copper eventually gets as thin as foil then just starts spraying water from cracks.

Due to the slate surrounding the tub and shower I also did it from the back --- next to get under the house.

[MountainDon]

Pretty color!   

[glenn kangiser]

It really is. :

[MountainDon]

I meant to mention this before. Our insurance company has been good. No arguments from them about the damage suffered. My fears about the adjuster possibly being a nitwit about the floor damage were unfounded. They have been generous in the settlement. We'll be able to replace the wood floor with a quality porcelain tile installed, pay for the re-pipe and have some cash left over. (The repipe is not covered, but they made allowance for a repair. The deal we got on the re-pipe of course helped immensely.

Nobody in our geographic area is likely to read this and need a re-pipe. But the plumber goes by the name of Alta Plumbing. Nothing but good words for them, very careful, clean work.

The insurance company is State Farm. Maybe it helped being a customer since 1985 with no claims.    The moment of real truth about their handling of this will come next April when the policy anniversary date approaches.

We had a totally opposite experience with another insurance company with farm in their name a few years ago on a rental property.

[NM_Shooter]

Hi Don,

Glad things are going along as smooth as possible.  We've had good luck with State Farm as well.  We were burglarized 10 years ago, and they were very, very easy to work with.  They had us make a list right away, then gave us a few months to realize whatever else might be missing too.  No pushback at all.  But we have a bunch of insurance with them and have been good customers.  They are still money ahead.

BTW... you going to be needing my pex tools anytime soon?  I have them loaned out right now but can get them back pretty quick.

-f-

[MountainDon]

BTW... you going to be needing my pex tools anytime soon?  I have them loaned out right now but can get them back pretty quick.

Thanks Frank. I'm nowhere near ready for them. Next weekend I'm going to finish papering the roof and probably spend some time running electrical. If time permits we'll do a lot of thinking about the plumbing... I have a general idea, loose plans what's needed, but that's about it at present. I'll advise as I get closer.

[TheWire]

While we are on the subject of plastic pipe, does anyone know if there is type of pipe that can be buried, shallow, and can handle being frozen while full of water?

[MountainDon]

PEX has those attributes I believe, but I'd have to go reaearch/confirm that. Sometimes I don't trust my memory.

If kinked it can also be saved by careful heating with a heat gun.

PEX deteriorates with exposure to UV, it's only undesirable trait as far as I know.

[glenn kangiser]

Pex can be direct buried and is much better with freezing but no one gives a 100% guarantee that I know of.  Still, it is the best choice I know of.  Tape it up when exposed to UV or it's gone in a few months..

[Redoverfarm]

I only had one bad experience with Pex.  I had four lines buried for about 90 feet from the house to an outside furnace. D$% mice chewed holes in two of them. Thank goodness it was at the furnace end and it was repaired fairly easy only about 30" underground.  I don't know whether they were after the water or the warmth.  But I guess after they got a drink of the anti-crossive additive in the one they probably just killed over or mutated.

[glenn kangiser]

Tough mice to be that deep.  We don't have sub-terrainian mice that I know of.  We do have wood rats and squirrels.

[Okie_Bob]

Hey Glenn, I just now saw that picture of the blue water..it is pretty but, were those folks drinking that stuff too?? I can't
believe that is very good for your inards!! But, that's just me, us originals never drink blue green water, unless it's from alkihaul.
Okie Bob

[Redoverfarm]

I once lived on an estate which had it's own natural spring.  Our whole bathtub looked like that.  I just thought it was laiden with minerals.  Funny when I built my new house I asked my son who was around three what he missed about living at the Lodge and he said he missed the "green bathtub"  .  Since then the new owner has laid new lines to the spring (250,000 gal @ day) and is now selling it retail under the name of "Allegheny Mist".  At least it is spring water and not from the Atlanta water supply as some are.   

[glenn kangiser]

Okie BoB, I think she gets bottled water.  Nothing wrong with the water by itself I don't think but when combined with the copper pipe it is bound to be very heavy on copper.  As I understand it, it is likely acidic and just dissolves the copper. 

We also have a bit of cyanide in our water which helps carry the gold around here in the mother lode, and keeps us pretty well worm free, unless we have a garden and chew our fingernails....but what's the chances of that combination ever happening? hmm

'Scuse me.  My stomach is growling.  Time to go feed my tapeworm.

[peternap]

The scary thing is that in the 80's when I was contracting, PB was the pipe of choice for re piping. Everyone here either had older galvanized steel or copper and like Glenn's customer, our water is very aggressive.

I would never put it in and if the customer insisted, I sent them to another contractor. I guess the CPVC I put in is still going strong while the PB is history.

[Okie_Bob]

Thanks for the smile to start my day, Glenn!!

[glenn kangiser]

I usually try to get you to spit your corn flakes and milk onto your keyboard.