Need a reality check

[Johnny P]

Im planning to purchase a few acres outside of Bellingham Wa in the next few months. My plan is to live on the land while I build, in a tow behind camper or whatever I can find. I really like the 1 1/2 story especially the way Alaska Mike has done it. I would be building by myself, maybe with the help of a friend or two once in awhile. I figure it would take me about 2 years? Im pretty handy and in good shape. I have a little framing and roofing experience. Is this a realistic goal? Anyone else ever try to build all by themselves? I plan to use a post and pier foundation as I believe it might be less labor intensive and cheaper. Is this a good idea? Im still looking into the local building codes. I guess at this point Im a little unsure of this idea as Ive never undertaken a project of this magnitude. Any advice/reality check would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

[considerations]

I won't speak to the building codes in your area, nor can I estimate how long your project might take. 

Definitively, however, I can assure you: If I can do it, you can.

It does not matter what kind of question you have, no matter how basic, someone on this forum has solid feedback for you, with no giggling (at least on line). 

All of my questions are basic, very basic.  Some of the answers have even included pictures. 

Imagine, the guys at the building supply store all hold their breath when I show up, waiting for me to ask for a new whatchamacallit.  And, instead, I have a picture and a part number.

So, welcome.  And... Yes, you can build your own home!   

[glenn kangiser]

Johnny P.  You could just stop in at the friendly building department in your area of interest and ask the friendly public servants behind the counter to clue you in on what may be required.  Seems Bellingham could be a bit tough.  Big enough for plenty of bureaucracy.  That's only a guess though.  Someone should have the real dope on this soon.

[Johnny P]

Thanks considerations for the support and the welcome.

Im still iving in Hawaii until I transfer to my new unit in Bellingham (active duty CG). Its been difficult to find building codes online at least ones that seem to apply. Im also researching all I can on how to deal with permitting, inspections etc. Bellingham is very enviromentally progressive (a good thing) city, so Im willing to bet there are lots hoops to jump thru to do this kind of thing. I need to find a recource that spells out the order I need to organize the paperwork side of the planning. ?purchase plans, take them to a architect, apply for a permit to build? Im geusing thats generally how it works. Also how my sight plays into permitting septic approval, water, electrical etc. I was hoping to use some green technology in my design. Grey water system, composting toilet, salvaged building materials, green insulation etc. I know from reading the G/W system and the composting toilet creates some problems with permitting/codes. Thanks again. 

[Sassy]

   JohnnyP!  Where abouts around Bellingham?  I lived between Lynden & Bellingham for 6 yrs & between the Canadian border & Lynden for 6 yrs.  Owned a home right off Wiser Lake - the Guide Meridian runs through the lake(bridge of course  )  Beautiful country...  Lots of rain but doesn't freeze that much...  like considerations said - you'll get lots of help here  .  There's another member, Maggie, who is planning on moving to Hawaii pretty soon - you might be able to give her some pointers on living there... 

[glenn kangiser]

enviromentally progressive

I think that generally translates to a fairly expensive permit process.

[Redoverfarm]

Johnny P  .  The house is just basicly a box.  Some more elaborate than others but still the same.  If you possess some knowledge of framing I think you can 'get r done".  Can't tell you a whole lot of the permit aspect but start at the bottom and go up.  While on-line can give you a little insight a stop at the local governing body will fill in the blanks.  A local builder can clue you in on some aspects (or ways around).

I am sure that there are some people you work with (CG) that would give you a hand in the heavy stuff.  The price of the labor might be high(refreshments) and the members of the board with the heavy thinking.

Might PU a framing book at Lowes or HD to fill you in on some of the procedures.


Good luck.

John

[ScottA]

  Johnny P. I'm sure you can do it. 2 years sounds about right for a solo build maybe less depending on how you decide to finnish it and how motivated you are. I'm building my place alone so I know it's possible. Good luck with Washington state though, I've heard it can be rough building in some areas.

[Jackson Landers]

If you're living on the land while you're building, then I bet you can do it. Especially if you're single and don't have any kids. That way you can use every spare moment that you care to for building. A couple hours after work every day really adds up. No time wasted driving to and from the site.

You can get it done in 2 years.  Maybe even get enough done for a certificate of occupancy sooner than that, depending how you're going to lay out the rooms and what your priorities are.

[PEG688]

 Johnny  to the forum.

You say "outside" of B-ham so I assume Whatcom county? Should be much of a issue if you use John's plans , they (building Dept.) up there will be able to tweak the plan to fit . UNLESS it's a "odd" site , very steep, cliff side , near a wet land , etc etc. 

So you'll be at the local Coast Guard station up there? Or a cutter ?

[maggiethecat]

There's another member, Maggie, who is planning on moving to Hawaii pretty soon - you might be able to give her some pointers on living there... 

Aloha Sassy! LOL! The irony...my husband and I were looking into buying land near Bellingham for building before we decided on Hawaii. Bellingham was rejected because of the high bureaucracy and expense involved in the permitting process...

It's not because the area isn't good, my husband dreams of having a huge house there someday...he absolutely loves Bellingham, used to live in Lynden...but the permitting process shows it's not going to happen any time soon.

Mahalo!

--maggie

[SkagitDrifter]

Wow - Small world.
I lived on Oahu for 13 years- went to UH Manoa and moved to north west Washington State.  I built my house in Skagit County (not too far from Bellingham) and found the permit process to be quite easy.  I sometimes joke- I could have submitted my plans on a pizza box and had them approved.  My plans consisted of a stock internet set that I bastardized to fit my needs.  I re-drew some of the pages and submitted them.  I'm no architect but I have had some building experience.
Johnny P- 
As far as the reality check... go for it!  My grandpa always said... in order to build something you just have to be a bit smarter than the piece of wood you are working with.
I am now on the front end of my new project- a 20x30 1.5 story cabin in Eastern Washington.  I plan to do most of it myself- with the help of my wife and Black Lab.  If I can do it you can.  Remember the old saying... "go out on a limb- it's where the fruit is"
Good luck to you.
Tom

[CREATIVE1]

I would find out how long you're given to build with the permit before having to re-up on fees.  In Mason County Washington, they apparently aren't sticklers about finishing in one year, and will let your live there before the C.O., but I know every place is different.

[Johnny P]

Thanks for the incouragment and advice all. Im feeling much more confident with my plans so far.

It seems my planning can go only so far until Im able to talk to builders and the building department about my specific sight and plans.

PEG688- Im going to be working at the small boat station its a 4yr job, so plenty of time for building. Spent 7yrs straight on cutters and Im looking forward to a more normal life/calendar and a little more time off work.

MAGGIETOH- Sounds like you got it figured out. The place to be is on the big island. All the other islands are getting so crowded not to mention you have to be rich to afford a decent piece of land. Get ready to be shocked at the living expenses, but you couldnt find a better place to have a plentiful all year long garden. What where the permitting fees when you researched B-ham?

Anybody else know ballpark what permitting fees, other fees? might cost?

When people say it could be difficult to build in this area what are they refering to exactly. The permitting procces or inspections?

Still looking hard to find out about using the post/pier type foundation in Whatcom county? Havent been able to find a definitive yes or no. Im worried about this, because Im pretty sure I could tackle a post/pier foundation however a slab or basement type Im unsure of.

On choosing my sight. Im working with a broker over the phone/internet and have gotten a good feel for prices etc. One question I have though is the difference between a lot, and unimproved land. How big of a job cost and labor wise am I getting myself into if the utilities arent on the property yet. Im sure this changes from sight to sight, but generally speaking. Im asking because I can afford 10-15 acres of what looks like nicer land (unimproved) as apposed to 2-5acres with some or all utilities already installed.

Thanks again everyone for the encouragemnt and advice its really great!

[davidj]

On choosing my sight. Im working with a broker over the phone/internet and have gotten a good feel for prices etc. One question I have though is the difference between a lot, and unimproved land. How big of a job cost and labor wise am I getting myself into if the utilities arent on the property yet. Im sure this changes from sight to sight, but generally speaking. Im asking because I can afford 10-15 acres of what looks like nicer land (unimproved) as apposed to 2-5acres with some or all utilities already installed.

We bought 5 acres of unimproved lot in N. California with no connection to anything (not even the road system in Winter).  This was quite intimidating for us at the time.  After a couple of years, my feeling is the big issue being so remote seems to be primarily money! We payed something like $25K for well (very location/depth dependent, but figure at least $5K for a very shallow well) and $6K for septic (this was a pretty small/simple system, so probably on the cheap side).  I'm not sure what propane costs to get going, but I think it's cheap compared with the rest, especially if you rent the tanks. With a modern insulated house I'm not sure the per-day costs or propane are gonna be too much more than any other fuel option.  It looks like a nice solar+generator off-grid setup costs in the order of $20K (but you can spend more if you want to use the generator less, or maybe $10K for a smaller setup).  Phone isn't an issue if you've got cell coverage.  Satellite TV can be cheaper than cable Satellite internet might cost you as much as $50/month more than DSL/cable (although the latency can be an issue for some work from home types).  If I had to give a figure, I'd say $30K-$40K and a few $10 of dollars/month more than a regular lot with all of the services.

Note that this is the cost to get set up so it feels like you're on the edge of town rather than miles from anywhere - i.e. this is probably the most you'd ever want to pay assuming no big well/septic/access issues.  Dropping Internet, TV and a reliable phone system is a plus from my point of view, and cutting back on other stuff has positive sides too.  There's obviously a sliding scale down to the point you buy a box of candles at CostCo, heat with wood and use carrier pigeons to communicate - probably $5 all-in!  In our case we wanted running water and a regular bathroom and the resultant well then dominated.  Solar will be the next biggest cost as a full 110V is something we weren't willing to leave behind either (and the well wants 220V!).

Work-wise, most of this utilities work is stuff you're likely to sub out (unless you're really hard-core), and on this front it was less hassle than I'd expected (assuming you can find decent contractors).  The biggest difficulty in my opinion is the day-to-day remoteness, not getting up the major utilities.  When you're an hour from town on a rough dirt road, folks charge you $200 just to pop in and say hi.  Planning the smaller jobs so that you can e.g. use a truck load of concrete for multiple jobs (or mixing 2 yds by hand for one job!) is much more of a long term issue than just calling in a septic contractor once to build a sewer system.

In summary, the money to setup was more than we expected but the hassle (at least to build) was less than we thought.  I'll let you know about the maintenance side in 5 years time! (although dismantling the neighbors generator mid-Winter and backpacking out controller modules indicates that there may be some ongoing differences that I've yet to appreciate first-hand).

Best of all, doing it yourself is fun!  Power outages are much more enjoyable when you have to go cross country skiing to fix them, rather than wait on hold with PG&E!!

[Johnny P]

David this is an extremely informative reply thanks alot. The numbers you gave pretty much coincide with the numbers Im seeing in the listings, so now I have a better idea how the added value of utilities breaks down. Most of the land Im looking at has at least one of the biggies water/electricity. This will be managable I think. I plan to complete the work slowely over a number of years. Thanks for the reply

[NM_Shooter]

Johnny, not only can you do it, but I bet you will end up with a better product to boot.   

Two years is reasonable.  I built a 1600ft addition with timber trim and had it done in 3 years while working a full time job, and keeping up with two kids / vacations / travel for work / other activities.  I did hire a framing carpenter to help give me a push with framing the ceiling... he set the purlins and decked it with the roughcut.  He also helped for a month on odds and ends.  I did hire out the insulation and sheetrock too. 

Here's the ceiling done.  I hung the timber trusses with a buddy.  That was an exciting day for me...



Consider hiring a couple of high school kids to assist from time to time to lift / sand /stain / hold this / etc.  They may not be as effective if left unattended though ... you know what they say:  "If you hire a boy, you get a boy.  If you hire two boys, you get half a boy" 

If you are going to be living on site, the following may apply:
The best advice I ever, ever, ever received was this:  Do something to complete the project every day, no matter how trivial.

Git-r-done inertia is proven.  A body at work remains at work, a body on the couch....

[mvk]

Good looking ceiling shooter

What's the dimensions and spaceing of the rafters, purloins, collor ties, braces, and are the collor ties let in to the rafters? Local cut timbers?

Mike

[MountainDon]

That is looking very nice Frank. Very nice indeed! 

[NM_Shooter]

Thanks... that room is 25' X 40'. 

The trusses were fabricated by Adobe Building Supply in Albuquerque:  http://www.abslumber.com/

They are not structural.  There are scissor trusses above them.  If they were to be structural, code wanted me to change the design.

The planking and purlins were cut by the Rose family at their sawmill near Raton, NM.  So all the wood is local grown. 

The trusses are spaced 8' apart, and are 8' from the end walls.  The collar ties are actually lofted up from the tails of the rafters, as I wanted a little more headroom there.  I now have low voltage halogen cable lights that run the span underneath the trusses.

Without climbing up to measure, the purlins look about 5' apart.

I have only a little carpentry experience... a decent carpenter could have framed this all with much less wood.  But I saved a truckload of money doing it myself, and it is very strong.  In our 50mph spring winds the rest of my house groans, but this addition is silent.

Same room 2 years later.  Still under construction but useable.  No comments about the dishes in the kitchen sink please.  BTW... the build-in structure in the room is a half bath you access from a hall off to the far right that also accesses the in-law room.



Johnny... I was fairly much a noob to this.  Get some good books, pay attention to what folks like PEG / John / Glenn / Don / others have to say here and go for it.  Get your foundation right and the rest can be redone if need be.  You can do it!

After all, this is not rocket surgery 

[glenn kangiser]

Really nice, Frank. 

We have a Hostel using trusses made of local lumber made before codes here I think.  Absolutely no sagging or problems of any kind.  Just wouldn't make it today because they don't have that stamp and everyone knows that everyone needs their cut.

Funny but in the day of the master craftsman overseeing the jobs there still were no failures.