Off grid control or monitoring center

[Redoverfarm]

OK I am getting the cart before the horse I know but my mind works like this. Depending on which supplemental power I decide to go with (solar-batteries) there is usually voltage meters associated to determine the power output or draw down correct?  My question is what guage wire or type should be put to that center from the source.  I am trying to place the wire in during my rough in a designated location before the finished walls.  Am I completely off base?  Will standard wire work 12ga, 14ga.  How many of what? 

[Willy]

OK I am getting the cart before the horse I know but my mind works like this. Depending on which supplemental power I decide to go with (solar-batteries) there is usually voltage meters associated to determine the power output or draw down correct?  My question is what guage wire or type should be put to that center from the source.  I am trying to place the wire in during my rough in a designated location before the finished walls.  Am I completely off base?  Will standard wire work 12ga, 14ga.  How many of what? 

WHAT? You got to be kidding me I quit reading minds a long time ago on what companys use to hook up all the different kinds of new stuff not even on the market yet in a lot of places. Heck some of this stuff is electronic data signals and not hard wired a lot of times. All depends on what type of equipment, voltage and how it is set up. When in question put a big pipe between the units to pull wire in later when your sure what you need then your coverd better for the unknowns. You realy need more information that that. I am not up on all the new types of solar stuff being sold it changes all to often to learn it. Mark

[Redoverfarm]

Willy It will be very difficult to install a piece of conduit.  Log walls again. I can work some wire up through the drilled holes I put in during construction (Not like the other switch wall for the threeway).  I can only assume that it will be monitoring voltage type wiring and I can't imagine it would have to be very heavy but that is just my "not familar mind" working again.  Sort of like the volt meters in autos it is not very heavy.  I am sure someone will ping along and give me info as some have it installed already.

Oh by the way I put the wiring in for another 3-way today.  No problem with it as I could get to everything OK. Basement steps one at the top and one at the bottom.  I keep stringing wires but haven't installed a panel box yet. I have been marking the wires for later reference.  I really should do that and get them in the box so I can put a few recepticles in and energize it via the generator and quit fooling around with the extension cords. 

[MountainDon]

John when you say supplemental I interpret that to mean you are or will be hooked into the local power company. Is that correct?

If so, and you want to generate some of your own power the usual method is to install a "grid-tie" system. That's usually a system without batteries at all.

Are you thinking of doing a grid tie PV system some day? Are you also thinking of having some battery backup for when/if the grid goes down? You can be grid tied for cogeneration purposes and not have any batteries.

All the wire in the building is normal stuff. The only place where there's "special" stuff will be between the PV panels, the meter and switch systems. As far as I'm aware all that can be external to the building in weatherproofs panels/boxes. If there's no batteries involved there's really no need for voltage meters, etc. That's all done automaically by the grid-tie inverter system.

[Redoverfarm]

Don right now there is no power available to the cabin. I am not really sure what I am going to end up with down the road though.  For now I am going to use a battery system/generator.  I realize that w/ solar there is special equipment for that but does that system require any monitoring as far as the imput to the batteries.  Might even later install wind generator which I would imagine would work the same as the amount of power being produced to charge the batteries.

[MountainDon]

OK. No grid. Not sure how I got there. 

A stand alone system then, For now generator supplied.

As for solar power, you can have a simple system that has no remote monitoring at all. Or you can have things like remote meters/monitors for the charge controller, and a meter that acts like a fuel gauge for the batteries. All these need some kind of small diameter low voltage wiring.

The Tri Metric Meter Model 2020 is kinda cool in some ways. It can tell you at a glance how much capacity is in your batteries. But that info is only as good as its programming. It's not all that smart a unit. It depends on being set with the values that take into account the characteristics of your batteries, their self discharge rate, efficiency in being charged, etc. I wanted one, but then decided I didn't need it. OMMV.

You can't beat a hydrometer to tell the true condition of a battery/batteries.

I believe most people can use PV panels better than wind generation. Some areas just don't have enough dependable wind to bother with, some do.  OMMV.

[glenn kangiser]

Each unit has its own meters or monitoring devices if required usually then you get into home brew and all bets are off.

My Trace inverters have their own meters -- digital -- with multiple switchable functions.  I added a couple meters but not necessary.  Nearly all add on regulators/load diverters have optional meters tha mount rigt on the unit.  Wind generator has its own stuff --- all can be hooked together or made to work together if done properly.  No extra stuff needed except the conduit in from the panels and out to the batteries and inverters -- or however you want to do it..

Do like me and bring them in randomly as it grows like a bunch of snakes hanging from trees.

[Redoverfarm]

If solar was not so darn expensive I would seriously consider it.  Maybe down the road. I believe I have an ideal location as the cabin has a good south eastern face. A roof mount would be ideal but would take away from the asthetics of the cabin. I had also thought of ground units with the same face off to the side later on.  But for now it will be a generator/batteries.  As for wind I have been up there constantly everyday almost for a year and the wind is always present.  Not sure how much is needed but I am sure someone could probably advise.

There is plans (long range) for power to be installed but not in the near future.  There are a lot of ground between where it is now and me.

Thanks for the info.

[glenn kangiser]

Bergey XL1  cuts in around 6 mph at minimal watts -- max output around 28 and furls there and up.  12 to 15 would be nice.

Wind 80 feet above the ground -- min 30 feet above trees - obstacles, is about 3 times what is on the ground.  100 feet is better on tower height.  A light tilt up is fine for the small generator.

[Redoverfarm]

Glenn the snakes is what I was trying to avoid.  I am the kind of person that likes organization in the finished product.  Although it doesn't look like it now it will be organized some day.  Not real sure where I fall yeat as being half full or half empty but I will drink it anyway.  Just like mowing.  I always mow the most visible portion of the yard first so if the mower breaks down it would look as bad.  Crazy Huh.

Almost all of the hardware will be in the basement anyway so I was just trying to plan ahead of anything I needed topside as the chinking is unforgiving as far as remodeling.  

[glenn kangiser]

Possibly a nice wood enclosed raceway?

Me and snakes -- we get along pretty good. 

[MountainDon]

Inverters and charge controllers don't have to have the remote meters. They can be nice, but not necessary, depending where the things are located.

If you have an idea where the inverter(s), charge controller(s), batteries will be located running some conduit suitable for small size wiring could be handy. make sure to have a string or pull wire pre run though to make future pulling easy.

FWIW, that trimetric meter and it's big brother uses 4 strands of 22 gauge wire.

The Outback MX60 Charge Controller uses CAT5 cable for hookup to it's remote. Lots of different stuff.....

So if conduit for future use is not viable you could guess and install a couple runs of CAT5 and a half dozen or more different colored 18 - 22 gauge wires. Should be good for a lot of stuff, but guessing.

Add a 2 - 4 wire set for remote generator staring? And an extra 2-3 wires for remote battery temperature monitoring (used with some charge controllers.

[MountainDon]

FWIW, systems without PV panels or dependable wind/hydro charging are more likely to draw batteries down to damaging levels. 

[glenn kangiser]

Are you talking about me, Don? hmm

I ruined tons of deep cycle batteries before setting up a good system.  Of course most were seconds and not real great anyway but -- yup -- generators don't save batteries unless automatic and full of fuel.

[Redoverfarm]

Well when undecided do nothing.  I guess I could always install a external color matched channel and surface mount unit if needed later.  That way I wouldn't have to leave a space open between the logs in the wall. Bring on the mortar .   

[MountainDon]

Are you talking about me, Don?

I was thinking about me and my RV batteries.   

But now that you have brought yourself into it.....
...if the shoe fits...

[glenn kangiser]

Just get out the Rotohammer and poke holes as needed.

[glenn kangiser]

Are you talking about me, Don?

I was thinking about me and my RV batteries.   

But now that you have brought yourself into it.....
...if the shoe fits...

Well it was fun learning wasn't it.  hmm

[MountainDon]

   I do know that a lot of what I read about batteries really is true.   

[Willy]

Cut a old pealed log in haft, router out the back side into a channel and stick it on the wall looking like a support. Glen was talking about this. Them put a couple 1/2 PVC Conduits in the chinking with the ends behind the log. You can warm PVC up with a heat gun and shape it around with out fittings. This will give you access latter to different places for things. Glen and Don have good ideas with the multiconductor cable. You can allways weave it around in the logs before chinking. What Don said for extra wires seems to cover a lot of things for future projects. Mark