Electric Service Capacity?

[RonDay]

We got a pretty good start on our place last week with the initial road work, followed the next day by a slow soaking rain that packed the sandy soil setting the stage for a mechanical compactor and the rock surface. The line super for the electric co-op came out and we talked about what we needed both short term and long term, but he really wasn't much help regarding load.

Here's the overall plan. First stage (before next summer) get moved onto the place using first a 28 foot travel trailer (hopefully by the end of the year) followed ASAP by a 14 x 28 cabin. These will be next to each other. By the end of the summer we will have decided if we'll build the "big house", a 20 x 40 story and a half cottage, or the shop (a 50 x 75 open span metal building) next. The house will be roughly 250 ft. from the cabin/trailer site, the shop about the same distance but away from the house 75 ft or so. Standard co-op electric install is 200 amps with an option for 320.

The shop will be for cars and storage. I'll be welding and plan on having a two post lift. We'll enclose the end 20 ft. and may move into that area while we build the house if we do the shop first. Eventually we plan to use this enclosed area as our wood shop. Since the shop will have 14 ft. walls we'll deck above the enclosed area and use it for storage. The house is planned as a 20 x 40 story and a half with 12 ft. walls and a full loft. We're also planning a one story bump out,  not larger than 20 x 20, for a media room. After we move out of the 14 x 28 cabin it will see only occasional use for week enders and as a craft workshop.

I'm wondering if 320 amps total will be enough for the whole place, or if I should go with 200 now and then have a second 200 amp service later. I've searched without success for load calculators or lists of typical draws so I total the loads. Also, what percentage of total load should I build for? You never have everything on at the same time.

TIA,
Ron

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds good Ron.  With 320 amps I could build a manufacturing plant.

My old house had two 30 amp fuses originally --from 1952.  I went up to a 200 amp service and took 50 amps of of it to run the shop.  That runs a stick and wire feed welder, 66 to iron worker, 50 to press,  26x96 lathe -7 horsepower on a single to 3 phase rotary converter and whatever I want.  Granted we are not in heavy production and things are usually run 1 or two at a time but power has never been a problem there.

Here is some info from Honda.  Divide watts by 110 or 220 the volts it will be run at depending on it's requirement (or the voltage in your area) to find amps.  

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/genwat.asp

Each big item will have it's own breaker usually and lighting or plugs will many times have several on one 20 amp circuit using #12 wire.  For a special use you may want only one or two plugs on a circuit - something like a 110 volt wire feed welder would like its own 110 circuit.

[RonDay]

Thanks for the link, Glenn. I should have remembered that they're talking amps @ 240 volts, not 120. I'm still thinking of going with the 320 amp service unless the meter loop and hook up is prohibitively expensive. My wife does more than occasionally accuse me of over-engineering. Of course she didn't complain when she stuffed our Datsun 510 into a chunk of concrete foundation during an auto cross in Hawaii back in the '70s. Hit it square with one of the front tires. Split the tire open, put a huge dent all the way across a steel rim, but didn't hurt the spindle or bearings.

Now she says she wants the Cat 262 that the guy did the road work and clearing. It's amazing how much you can accomplish quickly with the right tool.

[glenn kangiser]

I myself prefer the Bobcat but that is what I am used to.  I'd say let her get whatever she wants then see if she will let you play with it.

[RonDay]

We are going to need something similar but smaller that the mid-sized Bobcats, along with a pretty good sized chipper/schredder on a continuing basis. We'll be looking into buying both, probably next spring.

Lots of trees (mostly oak and cedar) and under brush on the 10+ acres. We want to clear most of the under brush and thin the trees as needed. Maintaining it will be an ongoing task so buying is probably better in the long run. I have doubts that buying used would be a good idea. I'd expect used examples of either to be pretty well used up, but we might get lucky. Can't hurt to keep an eye out. Hey, all it takes is money, right?

[glenn kangiser]

You got it---

I bought a very used chipper with a Dodge 318 V8 for $2500 - this is a low end price around here.

It will easily chip a 4" tree 20 feet tall in about 5 seconds if you can carry it over there.

The downside is that it will easily chip a person in the same or less amount of time.  No safety to speak of and a limb of a tree grabbing you from behind as it is chipped could shove you in.  These are called "chuck and run" chippers.  There is no stopping them once they grab onto the tree, limb  etc.  Since owning this chipper - maybe 5 or 6 years, I have heard of 3 people being run through them.  It may be a good idea to get one of the ones with safety features or rent it once in a while.

[RonDay]

A 318!! Are you chipping or running NASCAR! Holy Cow! Been doing some research and Northern Tool Has Ramrod Mini Skid Steers, starting at $17K. Ouch. There's a local rental yard that has a lot of this stuff and most seem to run in the $200 to $250/day range and they're pretty liberal regarding making weekend deals at the one day rate if you pick up the equipment late Friday and bring it back first thing Monday morning.

Some Home Depots also rent equipment but they aren't consistent as far as what items they have and the closest HDs are about 40 miles. They're getting ready to build a new, large Home Depot in Temple in the next few months. Maybe that'll force Allied and RSC to drop their rental prices some. Up until now they've not have any competition except each other. All we can do is check.

Bottom line, we can do a lot of renting for $20K plus.

[glenn kangiser]

I was tired of messing around with chippers that were not large enough to do the job.   I don't use it often but when I do it doesn't take long.

When buying used equipment I like to stick with mainline stuff such as Bobcat.  I don't especially like some of the copycat stuff either - the Ford one is really clunky and I've heard the Cat one was a bit also -- some of this just takes getting used to.

I bought my first old Bobcat 825 for 4500 - had to do some repairs but there are some deals out there especially if you don't get in a hurry.  My current 963 at 15995 was a pretty good deal for more of a hurried buy and having a newly overhauled engine.  I do side jobs with it so it will pay it's way eventually.

[Amanda_931]

Little chippers, ones with a 5-6 hp motor that swear that they will chip "up to a 3" branch" are the pits.

I gave one away.  It took ten minutes or so to chip up that 3" branch, unless it was halfway rotten.

And I had a lot of green branches that size and a bit bigger.  It wasn't bad on ¹/₂" and smaller branches, I could put a whole armful in the other side at a time..

So if I ever get another one, it will be one the size of Glenn's.   I'm not sure there's much in between.