Building without power

[NathanS]

Not building my house till the spring, though I am in the process of putting up a 10x14 storage shed this fall.

Today, I made all the cuts for the walls on my shed. A 3ft door, a 5.5ft double door, a 2.5ft window, and a 4ft window, all the plates and a bunch other misc. cuts.

It was a whole day of making cuts, and it was done on one battery, with a Milwaukee "M18 Fuel" battery powered circular saw. This saw uses a 7 1/4 inch blade, so in a practical sense there is no difference between this and a corded saw. It's a few pounds lighter, and has magnesium casing like the pro saws.

It cuts like butter.

I don't expect to have power till the end of my house build, and I'm planning to not use a generator.

The saw with 2 batteries cost $345. I don't think I could go through both batteries in a day.

It seems like a real workhorse so I wanted to pass my experience on.

cheers

[Adam Roby]

Good to know.

I bought a kit some 20 years back, Ryobi with the circular and reciprocating saw, drill and flashlight.  Cost around $550 at the time.  I literally cut 1 4x8 sheet of presswood 5/8" thick and ran out of power.  Battery had enough for the flashlight and maybe light screwing, but could not cut wood anymore.  Was a real disappointment...  spend the rest of the weekend cutting with a hand saw.

Now I've been contemplating if I should get a new battery saw or just stick with the Genny.  I still have the old Ryobi in the basement so I wired it up to run off my 12V truck battery.  Did not get a chance to try it out yet but I plan on trying it out next spring when I build my outhouse. 

[Redoverfarm]

Cordless have their place but to start construction on a new home with them would be risky.  Most contractors that build homes usually don't rely on them solely.  Some framing guns with fuel cells are handy for sheeting and framing but very few rely on cordless power for cutting required for home building.  Most that use cordless have a generator to recharge on site.  Don't think I would want start something that large w/o an alternative power source.  Believe me when I built my cabin some 6 years to completion I was tired of hearing the generator but the alternative of running out of battery life was worse.  If you could pick up a Honda ( I know they are pricey) but matched to your saw amps you will never know it is on site and you can use it later as a backup power source.

[rick91351]

I think that is a great way to go! But lot depends on how sharp your saw blades and tools remain.....  But I would still want a Genny to recharge and to run a few job lights when it gets dark.  Plus I would never start in on another house or cabin without a good sliding compound miter saw.

Building  gets bad when your having to make 27 hour days out of 24 and your shoving you batteries and yourself to the limit all the time.  Plus is just pretty unsafe.... Sucks if you can't plug in - grab a bite - hydrate - clear you mind and start in again.  Seems around here you can always sell your Genny if you don't think you want to keep it. Me I would not part with them. Like Redoverfarm says the Honda's are pricey but the ones they keep in good shape Cragslist sell for almost new minus a percentage of course.   
   

[DaveOrr]

Like the other posters I would want a genny to at least charge the batteries.
I started building my place this year and used a 2000 watt Yamaha generator. All cutting was done with a Skilsaw and the building is held together with screws. I used a 1/4" 20 volt impact gun to drive the screws. I had 4 batteries and had 2 on chargers at all times.
You go through a lot of batteries when you really get going.

[MushCreek]

I pretty much built my entire house with cordless tools, but I have electricity on-site to charge them. I have Milwaukee M-18 tools, and they have been great. I did use a compressor a LOT for nail guns. I have a nice Honda genny, and used it every day before I got power run in. Now it's my standby if the grid is down. I ended up with 5 batteries, and never used them all in a day.

[Don_P]

Then there was the day I arrived to find the electrician trying to cut his way in through a fallen hickory with his sawzall. He was on his 5th battery and I think he would have made it. I've been using the M-18 drill and driver this week, sweet, but that is on new batteries, time and temp take their toll. It might work but have genny money laid aside.

Do not screw anything structural together with drywall or deck screws, they are brittle and unpredictable. Nails and structural screws are ductile, they bend and the joints visibly distort giving warning before a shear failure. A brittle fastener fails without warning.

I've been looking at inverter/ alternator combinations for a project with the truck, in that situation I need power on the go. Thanks to the boom box crowd there is a 200 amp replacement alternator for my Ranger. Tripp lite makes a line of pretty heavy duty inverters. I doubt it'll be cheaper than a genny and it's a larger engine but another way to make power. There are many inverters, one may work for cordless battery charging without a big penalty, don't know.

[rick91351]

I was going to bring up the compressor - nail gun issue.  Then I thought NAHH!!  Might be he is going to swing a hammer.  Then I was not going to say anything about screws because it is an instant war. 

[NathanS]

I've got a trailer with solar panels and an inverter that I could use to charge the batteries when I do the house.

We've also got a great neighbor (1/4 mile down the road across some state land ) that is always trying to lend me his tools, generator, and tractor.

We also live 10 mins from the property so I can always charge stuff at lunch.. still having a hard time believing I'll go through both batteries in a day, but you guys may be right.

I've been licking nails with a 23oz hammer like larry haun fellas, I don't need no stinking air compressor . lol

The neighbor heard me and the wife pounding nails so he drove up with his tractor and left it there, in case we needed it.

Here are a few pics... of the storage shed.. all done with a cordless circular saw and a big hammer. Over the next few days I'm going to sheath the whole thing and put on a 12/12 roof.

[rick91351]

DUDE DUDE I so loved Larry he and his brothers videos.  Larry and his big old California Framin' Hammer was just was an extinction of his body and his soul....  He gave so much....  But take a hint his is dead.  We are still alive....  Wink

BTW I so remember going to a job site than an uncle of mine was working at.  He ran a framing crew, one guy was the sawyer tall skinny guy they of course they all hand tools back them most likely 60 years ago now.  Framers were yelling measurements and he made the saw dust fly.  Rest on the crew were all swinging hammers and carting lumber......   Made a huge impression on me.  I remember that so well.

Two other things I remember so well when there was a new house being built one was the pounding of the hammers. Two the the old cable well drilling rigs that made a pounding sound as they were working.  It would echo all over the country side.   Everyone knew by golly som' bodes gettin' a new house...... 

[db4570]

The neighbor heard me and the wife pounding nails so he drove up with his tractor and left it there, in case we needed it.

That's my kind of neighbor! We just bought a few acres near us to camp at on the weekends. The neighbor owns an excavator and a dump truck. He's a real friendly guy, but hasn't offered to loan me his stuff yet.

I haven't built a house, so take this with a grain of salt. If you want to try building it using just cordless tools, I say go for it. But maybe have a backup plan in case you get stuck. Sounds like the neighbor's generator could be that backup plan.

Not trying to change your mind. Just curious. Why no generator? The cost? Or the noise? Or is it more of a philosophical thing? I find a generator to be one of those things I now can't imaginine not owning, like a chainsaw, or circular saw. My little Honda 2000 is so useful for so many things.

Good luck with this project!

David

[NathanS]

Hi David, we will probably need a generator for the house whether we use one while building or not. Our land is the first place that loses power, and the last that gets it turned back on. The neighbor actually has two generators, he has told me he wants to sell his extra (his parents used it for a few months), which is some top of the line Yamaha (I think, it's blue, and on wheels).

I really like the circular saw, and not having it on a cord has already been very helpful several times. I cut all the roof sheathing and one of the gable walls today on less than half a battery..

I guess it would have been nice to have an air gun for the 8d nails that go into the sheathing.

My other hesitation right now is that I think we will have a propane tank for our stove, and maybe hot water. If we do that, it might be nice to have a generator that runs on that propane.. Honestly generators are something I just haven't researched that much. I do like propane because it doesn't have an expiry date like gas, or even diesel.

My philosophy is to have a super insulated house that is not too dependent on the grid. We will also heat the house (and probably water) and cook with a wood cookstove.

[MountainDon]

You can get propane conversion kits. That Yamaha might be a candidate if it can be bought at a reasonable price.

[flyingvan]

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13276.25


    Here's a thread on this very topic----my last build has a 'portable' generator set up and plumbed to the propane tank.... Like you, we lose grid power frequently and this has really saved us.  Best was the Christmas party when we had the only power in the neighborhood---no one wanted to go back home.  Some good info if you dig through the thread.  PLEASE be sure you're bonded/grounded correctly and the generator is far enough away so you don't fill the house with CO (there's a great PSA on that in the thread as well)

[NathanS]

Awesome info, thank you guys. My two brothers in law are an electrician and a plumber, so we should be squared away safety-wise. The plumber is certified for gas lines.

The neighbor is a really great guy, and appreciates what we are doing. I am sure he will give us a fair price on the generator. I will talk to him about it in the next few weeks, I'd want to be able to store it in his garage until we start building.

[MushCreek]

I used to pound nails, but the guns are SO much faster. My 62 y/o elbows just can't swing a hammer all day. It's the difference between driving a truck through the mud, and pushing a truck through the mud.

[SouthernTier]

Hi David, we will probably need a generator for the house whether we use one while building or not. Our land is the first place that loses power, and the last that gets it turned back on. The neighbor actually has two generators, he has told me he wants to sell his extra (his parents used it for a few months), which is some top of the line Yamaha (I think, it's blue, and on wheels).

I was lucky enough to have a friend who owned one of those blue-with-wheels top of the line Yamahas lend it to me when I was building my shed.  That thing was amazing.  Incredibly quiet, and it has an inverter to provide true sine wave power.  I'm concerned what cheaper square wave power does to batteries being charged.

When I was building the shed, a neighbor stopped by because he heard the circular saw running and knew I didn't have electric service yet.  He was all confused because there was no generator noise.

I was going to build the shed with just battery tools, but it wouldn't have gotten done without the generator and another borrowed tool: a pneumatic nailer (with the compressor powered by the generator).  I probably could swing the hammer all day, but it just takes a lot longer.  And it makes working alone much easier, since without the nailer, sometimes you need three hands: one to hold the board, one the hammer, and one the nail. 

[NathanS]

The nailing portion of my shed project has been done for several weeks (framing and sheathing).

I have no regrets doing it with a hammer, in fact, I really enjoyed it. Once you get into a rhythm, 8d and 16 nails can mostly be sunk in 1-2 strikes. It might have taken a little longer than generator + air tools, but it was certainly cheaper. I also have done almost everything alone, with two hands, a couple clamps, and some scrap wood.

If I was a professional framer, and stuff needed to be done yesterday, then I could definitely see investing in all that stuff.

I'm still not convinced I need air guns to build my house...

[Dave Sparks]

You will as you age

[rick91351]

The one place I would love to just use hand tools is wood working.....  When I sold out and moved up here I seen a couple articles where non powered wood shops were coming really into popularity in some places.  Sound very attractive.
   

[NathanS]

The one place I would love to just use hand tools is wood working.....  When I sold out and moved up here I seen a couple articles where non powered wood shops were coming really into popularity in some places.  Sound very attractive.

Check out "Paul Sellers" on youtube. He is one of the best woodworkers in the world, and doesn't use power tools.

Heck of a learning curve, but at his level I think it's easier to use a hand saw then constantly set up all your jigs to make a square cut.

[Chet Wesley]

I've built everything on my property so far using a 1000 watt generator that was around $130 if I remember.

Has run my circular saw, jig saw, and power drill for a whole weekend of work on less than a gallon of gas.  I turn it off when not using power tools.