Surface Bonded Concrete Blocks

[Robert_Flowers]

Surface Bonded Concrete Blocks Has anybody ever build this way?
I'm thanking of trying it on a shed an if it works on a root / storm cellar. i've read about it but never talked with anyone that had used it. I did a seach in the old fourm and the new one the only one i could find was no help.
robert

[glenn kangiser]

The only thing we had was a link to Quikcrete which I think had some information.  I will see if I can find it,

http://www.quikrete.com/diy/QUIKWALLSurface-BondingCement.html

http://www.quikrete.com/diy/searchprojects.asp

I don't know if this is any help or not but it is all I recall.

[jhambley]

I called Quickcrete's customer service a few years ago to ask about the structural strength of their
product. Their engineer informed me that the product was not designed to build wall above 6'. I think you would want to contact them for engineering specifications and consult with a structural engineer before building with this product. They also said the product should not be used in areas of earthquakes or high winds.  

I read of a gentlemen who built a small utility building using this technique. He found it very difficult to build a straight wall because of the size variability in concrete block. Concrete blocks are not manufactured to exacting size standards as they are normally laid by masons who make small adjustments as they lay the wall.

Jerry

[JRR]

I've done it a couple of times and am a fan.  I originally tried the "stacking and then bonding", just as the manufacturer suggests.  And this procedure may work for others.

But, for me, this was not as fast and easy as just laying up the blocks with standard un-pointed mortar joints ... and then plastering the surface cement on both sides of the wall for more strength and water resistance.  This procedure makes the block dimensions, with the added 3/8" mortar joints, work out to conventional dimensions.

[glenn kangiser]

There are some interlocking or self aligning blocks available- I'm sure it will be reflected in price.

I wonder if adding reinforcement and re-bar would make a difference- I guess that's where the engineer would come in.

[jhambley]

Here is a stackable/interlocking product. There are several on the market.

http://www.haenerblock.com/versatile.html

[phalynx]

My question is simple.  What does everyone do with the lack of 3/8" in the block dimensions?  They are built for 3/8" mortar and if you don't have it, wouldn't it be difficult to get an exact measurement?  I might just be lazy.  I was reading about this a lot and thought it was great because even someone like me can do it.  But, if I need a 34' wall that 3/8" is going to add up to a strange interval?

[Ailsa C. Ek]

Well, these guys (http://www.thenaturalhome.com/drystackblock.htm) swear that it's the best way to do concrete walls.  I haven't tried it yet myself, so I can neither confirm nor deny.

[JRR]

A couple of points about the info on the "thenaturalhome" site:

(Thanks for this link, I believe these folks are sincere and what they say is informative.  But ...)

1. Take note that the block in the photo is 12" wide ... these wide blocks, I think, would dry stack vertically more easily than a narrower 8" would dry stack.   A 4" wide block would be even more difficult to dry stack.

2. They suggest this is a method for the "unskilled".  Everyone begins as "unskilled".  I am certainly not skilled by any professional standards .. and I find it much easier to lay block in a straight line if I am using mortar as opposed to dry stacking.  (Note in the photo that their dry stacked blocks appear to be quite crooked.)

Of course, everyone will have a different experience.  And for some, this dry-stacking procedure will be just fine.

I would just suggest that we try both methods: dry-stacking and stacking with mortar.   If after a few blocks, you find you don't like the mortar ... its easily scraped off while still wet.

[jhambley(Guest)]

The natural home guys web site you mentioned also recommends earth tubes which have been scientifically proven to be ineffective in cooling
a home.

With any block (even most interlocking block systems), the specs calls for rebar and a concrete core pour every so many feet depending on the wall height.

[Amanda_931]

Rob Roy used the surface bonding stuff on the in-ground areas of his first house.  With, I think 12"  block.

But then the rest of the  house was done with cordwood masonry.  

Not exactly a material that is going to care what length or height your wall is.  Just build until you're finished.

[speedfunk]

I've built with the dry stack method...and I enjoyed it.  I will say we had some unevenness b/c of the blocks...  But it's minor and didn't effect the strength of the wall.  I cannot compare to morter b/c I haven't done it.   The blocks go up very quick ...the parging isn't that bad either, however slower then dry stacking...   wet the blocks first to achive good adhesion.  We DID NOT shim out any blocks to make it perfectly even.  We laid them and kept going .. it seemed that the wall floated it self out over the corses after a block that' wasn't perfect.  

The earthtubes have been proven?  I know of no tests done either way.... HOWEVER..when you just take some time to think about it..... it makes a great deal of sense.  The earth is 55(Depending on location of course)Give or take below frost line.  So why wouldn't the air in the tube be preheated (in winter ) or cooled to 58 in the summer)by the thermal mass of the surrounding earth.  Provided pipe was long enough.  Seems logical.  Also at the end of the earth tube I believe he runs the pvc through the thermal mass of the planters which temp should be warmer then the uninstalled earth.....helping to raise the temp a bit more .....  I guess i don't see how it coudln't work.  To what degree i don't know.  But it would certinanly be of greater benefit then running your vent above ground when winter lows and summer highs will be directly inputed into your structure...

[phalynx]

Earthtubes:  They are proven to work in principle.  The problem is the moisture, dust, and radon.  The moisture being the biggest problem.  Everyone who has tried it says it is impossible to remove all of the moisture caused mold everywhere.  The dust was a huge concern.  There was no way to filter properly and the wet dirt was very difficult to clean in the tube.

[Amanda_931]

Guy in Virginia does semi-PAHS without earth tubes.  I think he's very happy with his house, how clean it stays, etc.  

I just had a brain flash, could you run the tubes just to moderate the soil temperature under the insulated covering?

The deal with PAHS is that you get to insulate--really heavily insulate--the earth over and around the house for quite a ways--it almost has to be underground.  You want the dirt around the house warmer than average annual temperature, i.e. ground or cave temperature in the winter, down towards that or even a bit lower in the summer for all natural air conditioning.

He mentions UV treatment for the air in earth tubes.

(somewhere I have the plans for the HRV he mentions, by the way--huge files)

http://paccs.fugadeideas.org/tom/index.shtml

[ailsaek]

That's really neat.  I'll be interested in hearing what everyone else has to say about the whole PAHS system.