Daughter's new rifle....

[NM_Shooter]

Is a Savage 110 package gun from Wally world.  I've read reviews, and most seem to think it is a good shooter.  I'm having issues getting mine dialed in.

This is a 30-06 that I bought for my youngest daughter for elk season.  She has been practicing with my Sako 30-06, but I won't let her carry that in the field.  So I picked this up based on reviews that I have seen online. 

I've got a slightly reduced load that she is shooting.  155grn match kings at about 2400fps.  Some odd things with this load / gun. 

At 100 yards, it is shooting 2" groups.  I let the barrel cool in stovepipe fashion for 2 minutes between shots.  Here's the weird part... I took it next door to the 200 yard range, and the groups opened up to 8".  I should have returned to 100 and tested again but was short on time.   

It has a cheapie Bushnell scope and two piece bases.  I didn't check to see how bad the parallax is with this scope.  I am going to mount a 1pc Leupold base and rings and a VXII scope that I have and see if that makes any difference. 

I am not impressed with the plastic stock.  This is not the accustock, but the cheap black old stock.  The accutrigger is decent, but nothing to write home about.  I learned that the hunting rifles have one design of accutrigger, and the target guns have a different trigger with more adjustability.  Still, it breaks pretty clean for a factory trigger. 

I'll probably eventually put a Boyd's thumbhole stock on it and bed the action to the stock.  Maybe. 
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Thumbhole-Replacement-Stocks-Savage-Stevens-s/36.htm

[peternap]

Congratulations!

Your daughter has what I consider the best platform for a rifle under 2 grand.

By itself, it's a great hunter...From there you can turn it into a top notch sniper or target rifle. The possibilities are endless.

[glenn kangiser]

Cool, Frank.  Great to get the young lady shooting.

[Squirl]

I have always been happy with my savage. A .22 though.  They are the best shooting guns for their price range.

That being said, there is a rumor that circulates the internets (so take it for what it is worth) that there are gun store guns and wally world productions.  That many companies cut corners on those runs because wally world cuts their margins to low.  I can't imagine this would make much economic sense by general means of production, but the rumor persists.  Probably started by gun store owners.

[NM_Shooter]

I can't find the Leupold 1pc base in my area and will probably have to mail order it    Turns out that the existing scope mounts won't work with most scopes, as the rings are placed too far apart.  So in order to put my VXII on it I have to swap out the bases too.

Am a little disappointed as I wanted to try and wring this thing out this week.  I'll still head to the range with her, as we are practicing shooting off shooting sticks, and she has been working using my Gamo pellet gun in our game room.  She is now familiar with how to use the sticks, and we need to move on to using them with a bolt gun .22 and firing and working the action for a second shot.  Then on to using sticks with this new centerfire.  Elk season for us is in three weeks, so we don't have a lot of time.  She has enough trigger time with a 30-06 to make a good shot, but has only shot that off of bags.  I've built blinds for us with shooting supports, but we are just as likely, maybe more likely, to stumble on a herd as we are walking to position. 

She wants to go hunt grouse next weekend, but I don't think we have time (she also runs cross country and has a meet that day). 

Interesting about the two classes of guns from Savage.  That would disappoint me, but would not surprise me.  I've got another gun I am restoring and taking to a 'smith today.  I'll ask him about that.  I'm also hoping he has a Leupold 55701 base for me 

[peternap]

I can't find the Leupold 1pc base in my area and will probably have to mail order it    Turns out that the existing scope mounts won't work with most scopes, as the rings are placed too far apart.  So in order to put my VXII on it I have to swap out the bases too.
 I'm also hoping he has a Leupold 55701 base for me  

MT Don will appreciate this too

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Leupold+55701+base+&x=9&y=18

It looks like at least one vendor has it in stock!

[MountainDon]

I've heard the wallyworld rumor too, and the same sort of thing about HD and Lowe's getting "specially made" lesser quality tools as well. I believe those rumors are all horse hockey. I can't believe a manufacturer who sells their products through many vendors, small through huge, would not see that selling purposely made inferior models along with superior same numbered models would do nothing good for their image. If the model was not ever sold by any other vendor, then I could believe a special "made to sell at a low price" model could exist. But not when the number is the same.

If I'm wrong I'm sure someone can find proof from a reliable, no axe to grind, source.

[NM_Shooter]

Smith thinks it is unlikely that they vary their products too.  He says that they just make too many of them to fool around with quality levels.  The quality is in the machining, and they won't pass a barrel that won't gauge.  It either goes or not.  So I'm hoping.....

He also had a set of Weaver offset rings that he said would be much, much better than the "kit" rings.  I'll install those and try them out.  I also have a bit of potential contact area from the crappy stock... I am going to relieve that with a dremel.  I'm locking everything down with locktite too. 

Need to load up some more rounds at lunch for test firing later. 

[NM_Shooter]

New scope and mounts.  Still not shooting like I would like it to.  2.5" groups at 100yds is not acceptable. 

I am going to try a ladder technique for developing a load.  I have Varget and match primers.  If I can't find a load with this, then this gun just won't shoot. 

I'll seat 0.015 off the lands and burn 25 rounds.  What I really need is somebody in the pits pulling targets for me.  Hmmmm... .I wonder if my 100lb kid can get that target down and up ?   

[Tickhill]

NM I used to shoot competition silhouettes with an Anchutz 22 rimfire but the principle is still the same. I would see if you could slide a $ bill between the barrel and slide it all the way down to where the stock bolts/screws to the stock with no problem. Does the pattern open up after a few rounds are fired? This is also a good indicator of binding or touching of the barrel with the stock.
The Savage 110 platform has excellent potential to be a tack driver.

From the groups your daughter shot previously, she can more than do her part!

I sent Mtn Don an email, my parents and my wife and I left out from Mtn Home on a little western trip. We spent the night in Clayton, NM, Monday night, heading up to Yellowtail Dam at Fort Smith, Montana.

[muldoon]

I had quite a bit of trouble with a remington 710 when I first got it.  Just would not shoot reliably.  I would walk all over paper, and I even gut shot a deer with it back in the early 2000s.  Very disappointing.  I changed to a Leopold variax3 with decent rings (cannot remember offhand but I think they were weaver).  Better but not great. 

I took one screw off each mount and put clear fingernail polish on it and reseated it tight.  Did it all the way around, and took it back to the range, shot .5" at 100 yards.  To be honest, I do not really like that gun, (well it's a love hate thing) ... the trigger is heavy, the bolt is not slick, but I can say this - every year I take it out, I pull the trigger once, and I take home a deer.  I have been disappointed with other guns, much nicer guns even, and I always go to that one when I need the confidence boost of the gun that delivers consistently. 

Anecdotal at best, but heres a 3 shot at 100 yards with my cheapy rifle after getting it set in. 

[muldoon]

One last thing I forget to mention.

why don't you let her shoot the sako?

[peternap]

New scope and mounts.  Still not shooting like I would like it to.  2.5" groups at 100yds is not acceptable. 

I am going to try a ladder technique for developing a load.  I have Varget and match primers.  If I can't find a load with this, then this gun just won't shoot. 

I'll seat 0.015 off the lands and burn 25 rounds.  What I really need is somebody in the pits pulling targets for me.  Hmmmm... .I wonder if my 100lb kid can get that target down and up ?   

I sure don't have to tell you how to find bugs or work up loads. You'll find the sweet spot.
The only thing I can say right now is that at 0.015 you may not have enough jump depending on the bullet. I generally set my hunting loads back 0.020.

[NM_Shooter]

One last thing I forget to mention.

why don't you let her shoot the sako?

'Cause that is a $2k gun the way it is set up.  Even I don't hunt with it   

I dropped my muzzle loader one hunt and as luck would have it, it fell right on the scope saddle.

Thanks Muldoon... I have all the screws tight and sealed with blue lock tight.  I checked the bolt tonight, it may be wearing on one locking face.   That is one sweet group!

I'm currently loading up my test ladder rounds right now.  I may get to the range tomorrow for the test.  It is going to be a long day if so.   

[NM_Shooter]

BTW... thanks Tick.  The barrel floats pretty clear all the way back.  Makes a nice ringing sound every time it goes off too!

[rick91351]

I still shoot a 110 L with a great walnut stock in a 270 that I got used in 1968 or 1969.  It was on consignment in an old sporting goods store in Boise.  Savage stocked some of those early 110s with some great wood.  Wow it has been a great gun over the years and I treasure it.  When I was in my twenties and thirties I had one of those old Weaver K 4 scopes on it and it was a tack driver.  It has shot well with just about any bullet you wanted to load or put through it.  Does not seem to like some of the slower powders though but still okay.     

I made a 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser for my daughter when she was young.  I told her never sell that or trade it off.  I want to buy it back from her if she does not want it.  Right now its in my safe.  Does that mean I can shoot it?        

[MountainDon]

As long as you clean and oil it after   

[NM_Shooter]

Removed copper fouling from this new rifle tonight.  Probably has ~ 25 rounds through it at this point, and it was alreay pretty well fouled with copper.  I didn't have time to mess with extended break in procedures on this gun.  I was amazed at how much copper came out of it. 

I have a Pac-Nor hand lapped barrel on my match AR, that after even hundreds of rounds, it is a challenge to find any copper fouling. 

Early tuesday a.m. I'll do the ladder test on this thing and see if I can find a powder weight of Varget that works with the 150 grn Noslers.  I am keeping my fingers crossed!  I have the 20 ladder rounds and 6 fouling rounds ready to go. 

[NM_Shooter]

Okay... ladder testing for this powder and projectile is done.  Google ladder testing and you can find out more about this technique... it is pretty interesting.  Basically you load rounds with fixed increments of powder from a light load to a max load.  You fire onto a target at 200 or 300 yards.  I used 200 because wind here is an issue.  For exceptionally accurate rifles, you really need to be out at 300 yds for better data.

Once you fire all 20 rounds, you start to measure group size... look for small steps for incremental shots, and small sizes for shots that are two steps away. 

Of course, this is not enough data to guarantee accuracy.  But it is enough data to guarantee the spots that are clearly inaccurate.  Once you find one or two spots that look likely, then you go and load for the middle of that powder range.  Then start fiddling with seating depth. 

Here is the raw data target



I don't know if you can make out the markings on the target, but there are sighter / fouling shots marked "S" and ladder shots for data marked "L".

I found what appears to be two sweet spots. 

Shots 15:16:17:18 produced a 2.052 ctc group, with 15:16:17  as the best three at 1.437

8:9:10  with a group of 1.574", but there was some distance between 10 to 11, and also shots 8 to 7.

Bad news for my daughter is that not surprisingly, the gun shot better at the hot end of the load.  But I am going to fish around 8:10 to see how that does.  a 3" group at 200yds is plenty good for a minute-of-elk gun.  Especially with non-target projectiles.

Hopefully this will result in good loads.  I'll post the data and follow up tests later.

Considering that the charge weight difference between 15:18 was 0.9 grns of Varget, I'm pretty surprised at how well that shot. 

I'm going to load up two 5 round test loads... one with 50.3 of Varget (shot 16) and 5 loads of 48.2 Varget (shot 9).  Probably take my chrony out too if I can get past some laziness issues.