no access road foundation question

[tlmartin]

Newbie here and I have been reading for days, this is a great site. I am building a 16 x 20 little house wayyyyyy up on my property here in N.Vermont. I have never built anything bigger then a chicken coup but look forward to the challenge. The only access is a muddy trail so no trucks are going up there.I will be transporting the lumber up with a Polaris Ranger and a 4x8 trailer.Since I can't get a concrete truck up I thought I would use cinderblocks and beams as a foundation. My questions are: 1.If I insulate the floor joists and put plywood UNDER and ontop the joists( not sure if plywood under is the way to go) how do I plump for a toilet and sink?  2.How do I tie down the little house ? The wind up there is wicked.I appreciate any advice. Thanks for helping a girl out !

[Redoverfarm]

I am not sure but I think I would concentrate on a suitable drive.  Eventually you will need it.   Now to the question at hand.  I would not ply over and under the joist.  This wil trap moisture between the two.  Definitely use on top or better yet Advantex.  Unless you have plenty of time and help to get it dried in within a short period of time you could have severe water damage from convientional ply or OSB subfloor.  Insulation only after it is dried in so that water on the subfloor will not damage the insulation.  That solves your plumbing drops.   Then later if you want to rodent proof you can use hardware cloth.

You will need to get water to the site to use in conrete and block work.  Transfer tank will work.  You will need concrete footings below the frost line and then start your blocks off of that.  You can dry stack  double corner 8" or use flue blocks which you will fill with concrete and use a simpson or comparable fastner to the top of your filled block to act as tie-downs for the beams. Depending on the style block you need to determine the voids in the block and insert rebar into the footing allowing it to extend up into the block voids. You can later tie additional rebar to the top of the block depending on the heigth (crawlspace ) needed.

[Squirl]

This is an interesting scenario.  Recently I have enjoyed a few discussions of different foundations for different parameters.  The remote access and deep foundation needed would lead to two different foundations that seem like better candidates.

The first is a pier foundation.  It seems like Redoverfarm has that covered pretty well.  I'm not positive, but I believe you have a four foot frost depth up there.  Redoverfarm is right, just put the insulation and covering in after the plumbing. Sometimes a picture is helpful so one can be found here:
http://countryplans.com/foundation/index.html

Another type that might work is a Permanent Wood Foundation.  It has the advantage of being a full perimeter foundation so it is very sturdy and you can tie every joist to the foundation if you wanted.  It is also lighter weight and can easily be transported in 1 or 2 trips with a 4x8 trailer and easily handled by one person.  With PWF's there is no hauling heavy concrete sacks, mixing, or cutting rebar, just straight framing. You are in a low humidity and termite area so disintegration is a low concern.   It has the disadvantage of being slightly more expensive, more difficult to find high enough treated lumber, and requiring more excavation. There was a long discussion about costs, advantages, and links to code drawings here:
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10423.msg133274#msg133274

There aren't many situations where PWFs have a distinct advantage, but it seems like you may have found one.
What ever you decide, please post plenty of pictures.  I look forward to hearing more.

[tlmartin]

Thank you all for your advice. I took the time to talk with a concrete guy and he passed on to me what the old Vermont farmers do.When they are building a shed or barn this is how they set their posts in the ground. 1. Dig a hole 5 feet deep  2. drop in an unopened bag of sackcrete in the hole 3.Put PT post ontop of sackcrete then add a few stones around the bottom of post 4. slide a thin walled 6 inch wide x 8 foot long piece of solid pvc pipe with a few drilled holes around the bottom 6 inches of pipe.The theory is the pipe (which the top 3 feet are above grade) will move with the frost instead of your post/pier. The post has a firm foundation as the sackcrete absorbs the moisture in the ground.The pipe has some drainage in case it gets wet before you can close it off. The trick will be to allow the pipe to move up and down but keep the water out of it.As my piers will be under the house I think I can keep the water out of the pipe until the floor is built. I would love to hear some thoughts on this .Thanks

[glenn kangiser]

I think that sounds like a pretty good plan.  The locals are always a good source of information.

There are some tight plastic sleeves for posts but I don't like them as I have see bag wrapped poles rot off.  Your concrete guys ideas sound better.  Be sure to use foundation grade treated posts.  They are treated heavier.

[diyfrank]

The theory is the pipe (which the top 3 feet are above grade) will move with the frost instead of your post/pier. The post has a firm foundation as the sackcrete absorbs the moisture in the ground.The pipe has some drainage in case it gets wet before you can close it off. The trick will be to allow the pipe to move up and down but keep the water out of it.

If they do that and it works, OK but my experience when anything is lifted it will never return to the same level. Wet clay Or something that won't allow soil to fall underneath the pipe when lifted and enough weight on top of the pipe to push the pipe back down.

I have a similar foundation that I did using PVC pipe around my posts but I made extra effort to anchor the PVC in place as to never lift. My thoughts were to keep the soil away from the PT posts and allow drainage.

I also pored 12" of concrete in the bottom Around 18"x18" and use HD post base to secure the posts from uplift.