Footings poured updated pics

[wannabuildacabin]

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[glenn kangiser]

Great start.

[wannabuildacabin]

Took me about a year to get here. Getting excited now

[325ABN]

Now your rolling!

[glenn kangiser]

Looking forward to more pix.  Great looking background scenery too.

[bayview]

Loooooooking good!   

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[NM_Shooter]

Took me about a year to get here. Getting excited now

Took me a year to get out of the ground.  And I have a teeny shack.  I'm almost to the point where I can quit moving stuff around in order to build things. 

Your build is looking very nice... we are going to need a lot of pictures!

[wannabuildacabin]

This is a first for me.  Got some block layed with a little help from my little boss. Used some instruction from some friends. Were going to fill the block with cement.

[wannabuildacabin]

  Got the foundation done and finally started to build. Getting excited now. Thanks to all the help from my friends.

[muldoon]

nice looking progress.  given the slope your on, have you considered putting in a french drain early so you dont have to worry about water drainage coming into your building site?  Seems like a quick win for a weekends work to just be done with it and keep the mud from being under you or your footings in the future. 

Other than that, nice helpers.  pretty sure I identified the boss. 

[wannabuildacabin]

  Yep the boss has the camera. LOL   Putting the french drain in this week before I get everything in the way. 

[Squirl]

Congratulations on the floor.

I am a little concerned with the joist layout.  I am only guessing by the pictures that I can see.  It looks like you rested the entire floor on a 2x8 laid flat with only a single 2x8 around the edges.  This looks like this is over at least an 8 ft span.  This does not look like it will hold the weight of an entire cabin.  Are you building to code?  It does not look like any design I have seen in any of my framing books.

[MountainDon]

I can see what has raised squirl's concerns. In between the pictures that show the perimeter planks laid flat with a 2x placed on edge around the outside perimeter line, and the picture of the decking in place, we can not see what else was done. Has the on edge 2x's down the long sides in particular been doubled, tripled or quadrupled?  If this structure is to have a normal gable roof with rafters those long sides are going to be supporting the entire weight of the building. That calls for some husky beams, not necessarily solid wood, built up beams are fine as long as they are stout enough.


Questions;

What are the dimensions? It appears to be about 16 feet wide by maybe 20 feet long.     The spacing between the piers on the long sides would be about ten feet then. That is quite a distance to span.

Floor joists are what size and how far apart are they spaced? Did you use metal hangers to attach the ends of the joists to the long side perimeter 2x's, or do the ends rest on the flat planks? There could be some issues there.

[wannabuildacabin]

 Instead of just putting a short block on each pillar i ran the sill plate all the way across which also helped support the joist as we built it and it also has joist hangers . The dimensions are 16x24. The outside band is doubled and the middle is doubled. After the outter band was up we put the joist in in sections so they could all be nailed from the ends as well as the hangers. Each joist is just under 7.5' and are spaced 16"oc. I hope this clears it up a little better. Should have taken more pics. I need all the help I can get. Please let me know of anything else and of how what I have done sounds. Thanks everyone for your input

[Squirl]

It's a little better than I had originally assumed, although the span is longer than I had assumed.  It looks as though you doubled the 2x12's along the outside of the 24' side?  This still leaves an 11' span on a built up 4x12.  I think you also mentioned in an earlier post that you plan on building this as a 2 story.  I believe the load that this can handle is far below what is required for the load over that span.

I am not an engineer or master builder.  I am concerned though for your safety and others that may follow.  Maybe someone else can give better insight.

[MountainDon]

First; good news. The floor joists, 16" OC are not an issue. Even 2x6 #2 of most common 2x species would have no problem spanning 7'5". Anything bigger is plenty strong for joists and provides space for good insulation. It is the span between piers down the length of the building that appears to be an issue.



16 x 24 ft. That makes the clear span between piers on the long sides 10 feet if all the piers are 16x16 inches.

What size are those 2x's;  2x10 or 2x12?


Table R502.5(1) in the IRC 2006  lists the following.... (note their chart starts with a 20 ft wide building, so with a 16 ft wide the following sizes and numbers would be on the safe side.) Note this is what adherence to most other building codes would require if things were done by the book. The book does have some safety factor built into it I'm sure, but here's what the numbers in the book are...

For girders (beams) supporting a roof, ceiling and one floor with a center beam;
for 30 lbs snow,  3 - 2x12 would span up to 10'2"                50 lbs snow, 3 - 2x12 would span up to 9'2"
or
for 30 lbs snow,  4 - 2x10 would span up to 10'1"                50 lbs snow, 4 - 2x10 would span up to 9'1"


For girders (beams) supporting a roof, ceiling and two floors with a center beam
for 30 lb snow, 4 - 2x12 would span up to 9'8"                   50 lb snow, 4 - 2x12 would span up to 9'5"
Since the chart is figured for a 20' wide building those 2 floor spans should likely be okay for a 16' wide.



Or another way to look at this:  if those girders are doubled up 2x10's as I think they are, the table R502.5(1) indicates that the pier spacing should be no greater than....

For girders supporting a roof, ceiling and one floor with a center beam;
30 lbs snow, 7'0"      and 50 lb snow, 6'4"

and,fFor girders supporting a roof, ceiling and two floors with a center beam
30 lbs snow, 5'9"      and 50 lbs snow, 5'8"


So unless I've done something wrong it would appear that the easiest remedy would be to install more piers.

[wannabuildacabin]

 I will get to diggn. I am going to put an extra pier between each one.

[TheWire]

You could consider hefty diagonal bracing that would intersect the center of the girder between piers.  This would have to be firmly attached to the lower part of the piers somehow.  Possibly resting on the footings if they aren't too deep, other wise block up from the footings to about ground level.

Did your plans already include diagonal bracing for wind forces?

[wannabuildacabin]

 This is all new to me so I will be asking alot of ?'s sorry.

How do the 2 story cabins hold up that are on post and are cantilevered a foot or more? I see alot of theese on
this site. Its like there is no support under the load bearing walls. Wich is best the block piers, the 6x6 post or the ones made from the sonotubes and just how far can you cantilever and be safe?

[rick91351]

Never be sorry for the ?  questions.  I guarantee that is how a lot of people learn about what and what not to do.....

[MountainDon]

wannabuildacabin, like rick said, don't be afraid of asking questions.

1.  In response to the question about cantilevers, let me say that just because somebody does something and posts pictures anywhere on the internet, does not make it right. A random check of youtube video will attest to that. (car surfing, for example... )

2.  Almost anything can be cantilevered by an amount equal to the depth of the member. That is a 2x12 joist could be cantilevered by approximately 11 - 12 inches, a 2x6 by 5-6 inches.

3.  John's cantilevered designs go to 14 feet wide with the wider generally having the long side walls built over the piers or perimeter foundation.  The cantilevered designs all use one piece, full width span, floor joists as well.

4. There are some 16 foot wide and wider builds (like my own) that are cantilevered, but only a small amount as in #2 above.  There may be some others that fall into category #1 above.

Here are a few links to topics that have talked about cantilevers

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9376.msg120477#msg120477

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8757.msg113468#msg113468

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=968.0

[Squirl]

Also on #2 of what Don said, I believe there is a limit on cantilevers for one floor and roof.

Ask away.  As you can see, some will volunteer an opinion even if you haven't asked for it.  Sorry, just my way.

[John Raabe]

Yes to what Don has said. For a two story or heavy snow load one-story I would not extend a floor joist cantilever more than the depth of the joist. This is to be on the safe side. I was able to check the loads on the lightweight Little House plans where the maximum width was 14' and their was only a bit of loft load. This extended cantilever idea should not be used on a non-engineered two-story.

I am also concerned about the span of the built-up beam on the load bearing side.

There is one builder on this site who is building an A-frame cabin with the same type of "L" shaped built-up beam attached to a wide sill plate. He has used a double LVL beam to carry the load .

See: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9259.msg119692#msg119692

The main advantage of this framing system (which was new to me) is that you can eliminate the joist hangers. However that beam still must be designed to carry all the floor and roof loads over the span between the foundation piers.

[Don_P]

You asked which pier is best... one that is seriously attached to a massive footing. 4 sticks of rebar with bent ends down in something like a 3x3' footing that is thick enough to not overturn or punch thru.

A sill under the girder does not eliminate the need for hangers. The nails from sill to beam are in withdrawal... no can do. The sill is loaded so that it can split along the grain, I've seen it specced but that falls under MD's #1 above. I see you said that you used hangers I just didn't want anyone to misunderstand.

There is a cantilever table in the codebook in the floor chapter, girder spans are in that chapter as well;
I'm getting no joy on this link right now but hopefully they'll get it back up soon, you want the residential book when it loads, chapter 5.
https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Virginia/

It looks like you're between the steel bridge and riverside? Above the riverside corner, high up on the hill, the log home with the timber truss on the gable porch is one of mine.
http://windyhilllogworks.com/ovens1.htm
If that is where you are, that section of river funnels the wind when a storm hits it right.

[MountainDon]

Nice looking finished product Don.