Beware! Free Medical Care May Kill You

[Sassy]

BEWARE: "FREE" MEDICAL CARE WILL KILL YOU - ON PURPOSE!

By Tom DeWeese
February 5, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

The great debate on medical care is taking place in this year's presidential campaign. Much is made of the fact that care costs too much and that government isn't doing enough to provide coverage for the poor and elderly. Be careful - you may regret ever-encouraging government - controlled medicine.

Case in point, this report from England (Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors) where full government health care is "provided" free to every citizen. For years, free market advocates like myself have had to endure lectures from our little socialist friends about the glories of "free" health care. We keep pointing out that nothing is free - and now the folks in England may be paying for that health care with their lives - literally.

When government gets overburdened and revenues don't keep up with all the grand plans of a horde of politicians, someone has to feel the pain. Today, England's treasury can't keep up with the massive costs of health care. So the bureaucrats, such fiscally responsible folks - just serving the people, you understand - have decided the best way to cut costs is to stop providing health care to those who are too old or those who leave "unhealthy lives." Of course, government gets to decide who they are.

It's important to note here that the reason health care cost so much today is because government got involved in health care in the first place. It mostly started for the United States back in the 1960's under Lyndon Johnson's "compassionate" policy of universal health care. From that time a visit to the doctor went from costing a few dollars to hundreds, affordable only through insurance payments. It's no coincidence that the quality of health care also started to go down as the costs soared. Socialized medicine does not work. Period.

The force driving this policy today is a sinister policy called Sustainable Development as outlined in a UN document called Agenda 21. Sustainable Development is a horrific mix of socialism and fascism that is now taking over the world. It’s unhealthy for the economy, your private property and your health as Sustainable Medicine begins to take over your local hospital and family doctor. (SUSTAINABLE MEDICINE + SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT = DUTY TO DIE) Decisions on quality care will not be made by them but by mindless, faceless government agencies who feel not an ounce of passion for your elderly mom or your ailing son.

Welcome to the new utopia of Sustainable Development now being brought to you by the U.S. Congress, the President, your state legislature and your city council. Remember their compassionate promises to make your life better under Sustainable Development as you watch your loved ones die because they have been refused health care.

By the way, this wouldn't happen in a free market where you would make the decisions about your health care. But of course, that's not politically correct.

© 2008 Tom DeWeese - All Rights Reserved
http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom103.htm

[StinkerBell]

I can't help myself.

It doesn't have to be free to kill you it just has to be bad.

If I recall more people are killed by Medical Care then by motor vehicle accidents and gun shootings combined.

[MountainDon]

It doesn't have to be free to kill you it just has to be bad.

But most medical care is not bad.

I speak from personal experience. I have had one experience that I feel confident I survived only because of the correct diagnoses and rapid initial treatment. Two other experiences where things could have gone either way without treatment. All in all I'd rather be living today than 150 years ago.


Associated, but different. I have read that smoking and obesity may actually save on healthcare expenses. A Dutch (?) study found that because the thin, healthy folk live longer they may actually cost the system more. The obese and smokers may cost more early on in life, but sooner, alleviating the expenses common to the elderly.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

I don't know...my mom knew something was wrong with her for more than ten years before she could even get a doctor to take her seriously... and she had "good" insurance.  She had colon cancer, but doctors all ignored her or told her that she was fat and probably just had hemorroids.  It took her hemmoraging at work and driving herself to the hospital to finally get it taken seriously.  Thankfully, the ER doctor didn't blow her off again. 

When my first daughter was born, we got sent home from the hospital less than 24 hours after she was born, even though she really wasn't nursing so well.  A few days later when she became jaundiced, the hospital sent a bili-light out to our house to treat her, but the house was so cold that she would scream non-stop (because she had to be placed under teh light naked, and she was cold).  When I asked the doctor why they hadn't made sure that she was nursing well before we left to come home, she said it was because our insurance wouldn't pay for us to stay another 24 hours. 

With the exception of my childhood pediatrician, who I really believe was a doctor because she wanted to help people, I have had very negative experiences with medicine.  I figure it is a safer bet to stay healthy as possible and avoid doctors as much as I can.  It is a scary prospect to have either government agencies or insurance companies deciding what is best for people.  Throw pharmaceutical companies (legalized drug pushers) into the mix and it becomes even scarier.  I took my younger daughter to the doctor not long after moving here because she seemed to be allergic to Wisconsin all spring and fall... her skin would break out and get itchy, etc.  We weren't in the doctor's office more than five minutes before she decided Ev had excema and gave her samples and a prescription of Elidel.  Ev had never had skin trouble before moving here... in fact, she'd never had so much as a runny nose... I didn't use the Elidel and was glad later when further studies showed that it caused some horrible side effects when used in kids.  We started eliminating potential allergens and eventually were able to get her skin under control.  In spite of our insurance, we paid a couple of hundred dollars for that five minute appointment, and didn't get any help.  Likewise, I took the girls back to the doctor for pinkeye and a bad sinus infection, and again, after five minutes or less, the doctor told me to use saline nasal spray on them and wrote the prescription for the eye drops (which I later realized were available over the counter!!)  Ever try to use nasal spray on a pre-schooler?  It is easier to get a pill down a cat.  The kids (and both of us) spent almost a month trying to get rid of the darn sinus thing going around, too.

In Korea, medicine is not free, but is government subsidized or something because it is cheap.  I visited one of my husband's cousins in the hospital there after he'd had a bad car accident... it made me pray like crazy to stay healthy as long as I lived in Korea.  I've also been to doctors and dentists there with my husband, and you kind of wonder where these guys get their licenses at times.  The offices I've been in were hot, cramped, and dirty, and often the provider didn't even wash hands or wear gloves... ew.  It's weird because in so many ways Korea is ahead of the US technologically... but socialized medicine there makes you feel like you're stepping back in time.

[MountainDon]

I feel bad for the people involved when I hear stories like that, HGT.

I find it difficult to reconcile that colon episode your mother was forced to endure, with my own experiences. Many years ago when I was first experiencing some loose bowel problems, the doctors here started off with a few tests for common problems, gut parasites like giardia, etc. When that proved negative they quickly (within 2 to 3 weeks) progressed to a lower bowel (sigmoidoscopy) inspection which clearly showed inflammation. Diet changes were advised and an Rx drug prescribed. I healed and all was well for a few years until the problem flared up again. The next time I was a little older and they went right for a full colonoscopy to be certain there was no serious problem building, like cancerous polyps or worse.

A few years ago I had heartburn too frequently pretty much no matter what I ate. That coincided neatly with a scheduled colonoscopy, so they did a double header and included an endoscopy, which found erosion in my esophagus from reflux disease.

Our family has had our botch ups too. When our son was an infant he had double hernias. They did one side at a time. They messed up the second and had to redo it. That was a bummer, just from the fact of having to undergo what was essentially an unnecessary surgery.

Once again I have to say we have been pleased with the performance of the vast majority of the doctors we've encountered. The size of the billing charges on the other hand, do seem to be outrageous. I do not know where we would be financially if it was not for having the healthcare coverage we've been fortunate to have.

One negative experience was with a dentist. I left the dentist I had used for years because he did not accept the dental insurance I had through a new employer. The dentist I went to was not as thorough in the examinations, plus had to do more X-rays than the first dentist, because the insurance company demanded before and afters as proof the work was performed. I dropped the dental portion of the insurance the next year and went back to paying my own.

We've been with the healthcare system we have for 12 to 15 years (some with insurance, some without) and would not swap them for any other around here. My wife and I have different primary care physicians and find them helpful and easy to talk with.  They have even gone out of their way to squeeze us into their schedule on a couple of occasions when we had a pressing matter like green stuff running out of our sinuses.

How'd your Mom's cancer work out? I have a friend who's endured 3 episodes and is currently in remission again. But each round of treatment takes its toll. Still he's not ready to cash in.

[StinkerBell]

What upset me is the cost. I have worked almost 10 years in an ER and the Dr's there do admit they legally treat. What does this mean?
Well lets say you come in with a sore throat (and this is if you have insurance or not btw) the Dr's will do about every lab test they can. I have asked why are you ordering this test when the the patients complaints are these? The Doc's have said to me, well when I get sued by this patient cause they came in here with a sore throat but had cancer of the big toe (ok you get what I am saying here) I do not want to be crossed examined by their lawyer asking me why I did not do a lab that only cost 125.00 more. Jurors do not want to hear that if we did a test for 125.00 more we could have maybe caught this in time.  So, what it comes down too is that everyone will be treated for a lot of test they do not expect , "just in case". With this said I have seen Doc's work real hard for someone without insurance making sure not to cripple them, but I really feel they should work to that standard for everyone, the cost of insurance is sky rocketing and that is in part of all the test a doc orders and your charged for.

[MountainDon]

Agreed. The costs are outrageous. I do have a big problem with that aspect of health care. I don't know what the answer is. However, government run anything concerns me. I am saying that I personally haven't had many concerns over the quality of the care we receive.

How do you balance the level of quality care to the costs? That is the question.

The government of my state of New Mexico is currently in session and debating Governor Bill's (ex-presidential candidate Bill Richardson... what you never heard of him?... like I said ex-candidate...) agenda on Universal Health Care for New Mexicans. His proposal, it is stated, would provide "affordable" health coverage for every state resident (probably including all the illegals, but I won't get into that right now.). It is claimed that the state can afford the cost. That means we the taxpayer, are being taxed enough. OK. Go back a couple years. Dear old Gov Bill wanted a people mover rail connection up and down the Rio Grande Valley, the most populated sector of the state. Good for the environment and all that. Well, he pushed it through and we now have a nearly completed people mover rail system in place. Heavy rail, not light rail.  We were told the system would pay for itself. That was about 2 years ago. This year we are being asked to approve a tax increase to cover the now projected deficit. Bullcrap!.

That's what I'm afraid of with Universal health Care.

Denmark is supposed to have the world's happiest people. So a survey states. Denmark offers cradle to grave social security. No matter how hard you work, or don't work, everything from child birth costs, child care for working parents, university education, medical care, retirement benefits, etc etc are guaranteed by the government. Typical Danes are in the 60% tax bracket.

I don't know about you, but that seems like a steep price to pay. I'm happy knowing that I've done a decent job of providing for myself and my family on my own.

[Sassy]

One of the things that run up health care costs is "defensive medicine" - like what Stinkerbell was saying... the doctors order every test in the book so that can't be accused of missing something.   It all costs a lot.  The VA is a socialistic health care system - gov't run but everyone is held to a really high standard - we have strict guidelines - maybe our hospital is good because the director of the hospital is very competitive & likes to come in 1st in the competition.  The hospitals are graded & everyone can see how each facility is doing.  We are always at top.

But, I know there are good docs & bad docs - those that care & those that don't...  I just can't see socialized medicine working very well - look at Medicare & Medicaid - they are bankrupting the country.  When people don't have to pay out of their pocket, they tend to take advantage of the system & come in for every little thing... 

[Erin]

Stat for those against universal healthcare:


The US actually spends more, per capita, on medical coverage than any other country in the world.  And ours isn't universal!!

Ie, we're spending more money for less coverage.   

[tanya]

I think avoiding the medical establishment at all costs is the best way to stay healthy.  First of all they are all corrupt and evil!!!  they think they are so great because they have all this status quo power etc but the reality is that they are humans just like everyone else and they too will face the very same situations the people they serve do.  "SERVE" being the key word here.  The emdical establishment has fed these egos to the point that they consider their professional status as transforming themselves into some sort of superior being.  True healers know they are here to SERVE.  Since they believe they are superior they also believe they are somehow not responsible for the current state of THEIR profession and industry.  These medical professionals who a re crying about how horrible state sponsored health care will be are the very same ones who have sat back and let this hideous insurance situation take off, they are the very same people who have said nothing over many years about the horrible situations and occurances that are swept under the rug as a matter of POLICY!!!!  We need government intervention, not only to get the financial situation under control but to hand down a heavy handed policy on accountability, and for those "professionals" who sat back and allowed their industry to be overcome with corruption and greed... well they have only themselves to blame.  Now as far as the issue of government being able to manage anything... well all I can do is continue to hope..... One thing is for sue though if things don't cange both in healthcare and govt. It's all going to be up to the peeps.  And I do have a lot of faith inthe people who are coming together to realize and correct via shutting the pocketbook. 

[StinkerBell]

I really think we need to focus on the preventative aspect of health care. If you catch it early or prevent it then you save. Maybe the focus should be there?

I can't help that think that if everyone had some basic coverage that allows them to their primary and so many visits and lab test run maybe that might be a start. Also primary Doc's need to have a more varied office hours and open longer on the weekends.

What I have seen that has been more common  is people use the ER as a primary office. 90% of the daily visits we record are not life threatening and really are not an ER visit.  We hear all the reasons why from no insurance to see a regular Doc, or they can't get in to see their Doc immediately and/or they work all day and can not take time from work to see their primary during normal business hours.  Now with that last reason people wait to get care and any benefit from a preventative measure is lost.

[Sassy]

BTW, I'd rather have the money we are spending on the war that is going to Halliburton & Blackwater & the Carlye Group & other arms dealers, I'd rather have it go towards the infrastructure of our nation - for health care, roads, bridges, more efficient transportation modes, water systems, etc that are crumbling. 

Stiinkerbell, the VA emphasizes the prevention aspect of health care - they do routine screenings - and each VA hospital/clinic is graded on the percentage completed - that includes vaccinations for flu/pneumonia etc (which I refuse) screening & education on smoking, drinking, drugs, depression, exercise, healthy eating, diabetes etc etc - there is an immense amount of preventive screening & education required every year besides routine blood tests for diabetes, cholesterol etc. 

Prevention is great - but sometimes I question the interventions like cholesterol medication & vaccines because those issues are very controversial...

Then there are countries that are planning on limiting care if you do things like smoke, drink too much, are overweight etc as these are self-inflicted health issues....  so where is the balance...

I do think that in many respects, the VA system has done a good job & run a tight ship...  if the hospital doesn't keep their percentages up they lose money...  there is some accountability there - but the VA is one entity - how do you "police" 1000's of independent providers, hospitals, clinics...   

And the problem with ER's being used for clinics - the people that use them for clinics are mainly the ones who don't have to pay 

[peternap]

the Dr's will do about every lab test they can.

This has been a good thread. I always take note of what Sassy and Stinkerbell say about the medical community. First hand knowledge and common sense go a long way with me.

You would have been amused listening to my conversation with the Doctor when my appendix burst.
The Dr. ordered a chest xray.
I asked if he was a REAL Doctor.

He said "Yes"

You went to medical school and studied human anatomy?

Yes

Are you aware that my appendix is NOT in my chest and is closer to my butt?

He was indignant! As it turned out, I really wish I hadn't let them do the chest xray. Then I wouldn't know about the heart problem. Dsmn thing cost a fortune too.

[Sassy]

Yeah, a lot of nurses I know would rather not know about things - my sister is a nurse practitioner & she rarely goes to the doctor...  unless she is hurting too much & needs a steroid injection in her knee...  I've gotten to be the same way... one of the nurses I used to work with in clinic never went to the doctor - she said "why do I want to know"  she also refused vaccinations - that was the 1st time I ever thought about them - I really respected her knowledge of health care & medical interventions & it totally surprised me when she said she didn't get vaccinations... 

Glenn is another one who just does not go to the doctor...  2'x times in the 11 yrs we've been together?  Sometimes you find out more than you want to know & then the intervention ends up worse than just letting something take it's course...

But then, with MtnDon, he definitely needed intervention in some of the health crises he had... and it seems he got good care.  So has my brother...  now my dad, he was diagnosed with the esophageal cancer 18 months ago, told his esophagus would be closed within a month & he would need a feeding tube, told he needed to get into hospice as he only had a few months, encouraged by some of the docs to have chemo & radiation...  he tried chemo for 4 days & said "if that is what I'm going to feel like, forget it" & here he is still independent - granted, he doesn't have a whole lot of energy...  my brother went through chemo & radiation & surgery - he's doing well - so...  as they say the "practice of medicine" 

[StinkerBell]

I not sure I have "The" answer but I know with the way laws are written that ER's are being used incorrectly. Look at what happened to that lady who called 911 from an ER was still refused help and died in the waiting room. The ER was so over burden they could or refused to help her. Probably running more test on a person with an ear infection so they would not be sued later. 

I do know that people really need to start being held accountable too. There is a risk in all things. People have surgery and they are told there is a risk of death or damage or whatever, yet they sign away and when it happens to them they sue. They do not tell Dr A about what Dr B prescribed to them and then they sue when something goes wrong. Everyone has a unique DNA and with that said not every medication can work the way it was designed for use. People want a pill to cure them but do not want to eat correctly and exercise to keep their health up.

I do not like when you do go to a Dr and they do not tell you the price of a test or procedure. Doc's are purposefully kept out of the loop but I think this is wrong. Despite it all I am still a consumer and a patient who is paying. I want to know the price and understand why this test might be  important or not. I really think we need to have disclosure laws. I personally ultimate the person responsible for myself and I want to have all the information to make my choice.

rant rant rant,complain complain complain.

[tanya]

One thing is for sure, if I ever did go to the doctor I would much rather die from free medical care than from medical care I paid for. 

[StinkerBell]

 

On a side note.... Last year there was a young man going door to door offering free breast exams. The women became alarmed when they found out he was not a real Doctor.....

[Sassy]

 

[StinkerBell]

It really happened.......

[glenn kangiser]

...it wasn't me.

[StinkerBell]

http://www.local10.com/news/8830685/detail.html

Correction I said young man in my post....He was just a basic dirty old man.

[glenn kangiser]

That wasn't me either.

[tanya]

Recently the state of WA decided that they are going to collaborate withthe medical industry and that the patients who are subjects of the medical industry's "mistakes" will no longer have to pay for the fix.  So..... I can't help but wonder what prompted that.  After all patients who have been at the brunt of such misfortune have been paying for those mistakes all along... why the big change now?  I bet it has something to do with the newspapers looking into this mess.  Once the public knows what is going on the Govenor has to show some initiative but as long as it is secret well then who cares? 

[glenn kangiser]

Another problem.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Germs/story?id=4233448&page=1.

[StinkerBell]

In the news the other night they said that certain flu shots are now becoming flu resistant. Ummmm, This is how MRSA got started. Soon enough we will have a super flu! Yes I know there is no cure for the flu. Thats not what I am saying. BUt we are going to mutate the flu so bad that it will become something we will not survive imo.