Author Topic: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)  (Read 666560 times)

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Offline Yonderosa

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2009, 06:31:01 AM »
Glad to see another "neighbor" underway here  [cool].  Thanks for sharing your progress with us.  Looks like the secret is getting out about this area - quite a concentration of forum members with projects in this neck of the woods.
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Offline SkagitDrifter

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2009, 07:39:20 AM »
Hey Erik-
Thank you for your service to our great country!

Wecome to a great site/forum.
Beautiful part of the world we have over there in the Okanogan.
Great to see you bringing your boys up right too.
Good progress on the cabin.
I did notice your piers however-
They seem to be a bit shallow in the ground.  Do you think frost heaving may become a problem?
Not to throw a monkey in the wrench but I have seen a few projects get thrown out of wack due to the freeze/thaw cycle.  I think the frost level in that area is about 24".
You may consider adding more backfill to bring the grade up thus covering the piers with more material.
Maybe some of the more experienced folks can chime in here.
Good luck and keep posting your progress.
Tom

 
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2009, 11:55:00 AM »
Hey Erik-
Thank you for your service to our great country!

Wecome to a great site/forum.
Beautiful part of the world we have over there in the Okanogan.
Great to see you bringing your boys up right too.
Good progress on the cabin.
I did notice your piers however-
They seem to be a bit shallow in the ground.  Do you think frost heaving may become a problem?
Not to throw a monkey in the wrench but I have seen a few projects get thrown out of wack due to the freeze/thaw cycle.  I think the frost level in that area is about 24".
You may consider adding more backfill to bring the grade up thus covering the piers with more material.
Maybe some of the more experienced folks can chime in here.
Good luck and keep posting your progress.
Tom

 

Thanks and thanks :)

I thought a lot about the pier blocks but another little house builder http://coyotecottage.com/cabin/cabinconstruction/foundation.htm seemed to do ok with shallow piers in the NW (he's in WA also and higher in alt then we are).

I may be wrong, but the soil type where I am at doesn't seem to experience any issues with frost heave so I'm thinking that being down as low as I am should be ok.  One thing you can't see here, but will be seen in other photo's is that we back filled the trenches and are filling them to come just to the top of the piers.  Then will be building a deck all the way around the cabin so they will remain pretty dry also (15" of rain a year max).

The drainage here is excellent and while they do say 24" I'm not sure how accurate that is.  But hey, we'll learn!  ;)

« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:12:18 PM by MountainDon »

Offline chaddhamilton

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2009, 09:22:19 AM »
Eric, Nice work so far.  Did you cast those piers yourself?   

Semper fi.
Chadd

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2009, 09:59:01 AM »
Eric, Nice work so far.  Did you cast those piers yourself?  

Semper fi.
Chadd

Semper Fi Chadd,

Nope -- I bought those from the Builders Supply in Tonasket.  The pavers I also bought.

I'm hoping to get up there to finish the deck this weekend if all goes well...not sure though, since the front drive u-joints might be going on me and I need 4 low to tow the trailer up the hills -- it's steep!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:12:33 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2009, 10:03:22 AM »
Leaving soon for the 'shop' we're building in the woods :)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:12:46 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2009, 05:15:18 PM »

After settling in we headed out to get supplies.  11 sheets of 3/4" T&G OSB, 19 2x6x14's, 4 2x6x12's, 4 2x4x8's, insulation, sheeting (moisture barrier for the ground and the floor), nails and more.  The load was very heavy and one grade is at least a 12% and runs about 1/4 of a mile.  I was a bit worried since I usually pulled up it in 4 low but with some U-joints started to make noise I decided to try the haul in 2wd.  We made it!  I was so happy!

Later I did have to put it in 4 high but she pulled fine and we got the load up.


Thanks to a cheap (Champion) generator and my Makita Miter Saw we made quick work of the cutting.


The boys used 14 1/2 blocks to space everything out.


And we nailed it up.  You'll notice the 6" framing.  I decided that since this was not a permanent residence or anything like that it would be fine with the 6 inch floor joists.

I guess the state calls for 12" joists but whether you're building a small wood working shop or a cabin in the woods to use when hunting and fishing I just don't see putting in a 12" floor unless you can spare the money.  Heck, a 8" floor would cost about $100 more and still be out of code -- and when you want to frame the whole thing for under $3k and then use it about as often as you use your tent trailer (6 times a year at most) I'm thinking this will be fine.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:13:03 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2009, 05:16:38 PM »
For those curious about the torn up Tyvex in the picture -- that's on a shed that was built several years (4 or 5) earlier by previous owners.  I plan to either fix it up or move it.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:13:46 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2009, 05:22:10 PM »

Got the insulation down and put down some vapor barrier and then dropped on the lid.

I made one mistake here (maybe two but the 2nd I'm unaware of still) in that I did not rotate the middle or end OSB to face the opposite way.

Why do this you ask?  So after you rip off the overhang of the first you can turn it around and install it on the second!  You need either 3 2' pieces of OSB with a tongue (in my case) or two with a tongue and one with a groove (which is what would happen if you rotate one section of floor).

I probably skimmed past this section of the plans in a hurry -- DOH!  Ahhh well....so I buy another piece of OSB.  Grrr...


A Deck!  WhooHoo!  I can see the walls already!


I hear this is obligatory here at Countryplans so I'm doing a jig :)


It's hard to see but my 4 foot level shows well, level! :)  I love it!


Dropped down the two footer running the other way for a single shot of the two which didn't work so here it is.

I'm please we were able to do this -- it's been since 1992 since I did any real serious framing are new to it.

We're having fun and knocking out a lot of work!  it's solid too but I want to put in more braces and much more effort underneath.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:14:01 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2009, 05:23:52 PM »


My favorite shot :)  Nothing like relaxing on the new deck!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:14:20 PM by MountainDon »

Offline ScottA

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2009, 04:30:46 AM »
Looks good. I bet it feels good to be started.  :)

Offline Don & Ginger Lundgren

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2009, 06:59:21 AM »
Looks good so far to me. I forgot to do the jig on our deck when we got it done... darn it! Did put a chair up on it right away and try it out. Had my daughter jump around on the deck looking for any weak areas... That was funny because I knew there were none but she took me serious so was really checking it out.

Keep up the great work.

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2009, 07:31:52 AM »
Thanks!

It's been a long long time so I find my hands are sore and I forgot just how dry kiln dried is!  My hands were so dry I actually had to steal some of my wifes hand cream -- I remember 20 years ago when I started framing I had this problem for a short time until my hands got used to handling the lumber but today I ride a desk!  Time to toughen up.

Overall I'm sore but feeling great!  Who says fat guys can't build cabins!? haha

Anyway, I've found some windows and hope to look at them today, if they will work I'll buy the ones I want and be able to start planning walls.

Windows is a big one for me becuase I still haven't settled on what I want.  I am planning the wood stove ini the west wall (14' wall) in the center which means I have to change how I put a window in the loft above.  I'm thinking two small bathroom sized windows on either side of the pipe but that's kind silly, so I might move the stove a few feet north instead -- not sure yet.

The issue is that the stove pipe must extend 2 feet above the highest point of the roof within 10 feet -- so putting it in the center of the wall means I've got the entire wall and gable to tie down the pipe.  Whereas, if I put it to the side then I've got to guy wire it to the roof somehow and have a lot of free pipe hanging out there.

Many cabins I see here don't do this, but it's something I feel is important.  I might argue that 6 inch floors and 4 inch walls are fine, but you won't get me arguing about wood stove rules and regs!  I'll be installing a Quadfire catalitic to meet state codes (though with luck they will never know it) and put the insultated pipe all the way up to clear everything correctly.

The main windows I'm thinking could be the size of typical bedroom windows and I've found some 60"x36" aluminum storm windows that I think might work (and for $15ea who'd not?) and also found two 36x30 inches for $10ea.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:14:35 PM by MountainDon »

Offline SkagitDrifter

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2009, 09:16:46 AM »
Looking good!

Something to consider about the stove pipe...
The closer you put it to the ridge the less chance you will lose it when the snow sheds off of the roof.
Before I installed mine I asked for some advise from the local company that does woodstove installs.
The guy told me that at least a few times a year he has to replace pipes that have been torn off the roof due to snow build up sliding down the roof.  On a small building it may not be that big a deal.
I put mine about 1-1/2 feet from the ridge.
Just a thought.

Tom

 
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2009, 09:46:36 AM »
Looking good!

Something to consider about the stove pipe...
The closer you put it to the ridge the less chance you will lose it when the snow sheds off of the roof.
Before I installed mine I asked for some advise from the local company that does woodstove installs.
The guy told me that at least a few times a year he has to replace pipes that have been torn off the roof due to snow build up sliding down the roof.  On a small building it may not be that big a deal.
I put mine about 1-1/2 feet from the ridge.
Just a thought.

Tom

 

Hadn't thought of that -- I was just worried about tying it down so planned on putting it right in the center but running the pipe on the outside of the building from under the loft (90 through the outside wall) to 2' above the peak.  That way I've got lots of strength -- but I lose a center window in the loft (so need to offset the window there).
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:14:49 PM by MountainDon »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2009, 03:01:22 PM »
Another thing about wood burning chimneys...  A chimney that exits the wall and then rises to above the roof peak may not draw as strongly as a chimney that goes up through the interior and then the roof. That's because it's entire vertical run is colder.  Sometimes more noticeable with newer stoves with their internal baffles and twisted smoke paths than on older stoves. Just another thing to consider. 


What's that XJ got hiding underneath and between the bigger tires? I have one that's been worked over.  8)  Great vehicles.  :) :)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2009, 04:09:29 PM »
Another thing about wood burning chimneys...  A chimney that exits the wall and then rises to above the roof peak may not draw as strongly as a chimney that goes up through the interior and then the roof. That's because it's entire vertical run is colder.  Sometimes more noticeable with newer stoves with their internal baffles and twisted smoke paths than on older stoves. Just another thing to consider.  


What's that XJ got hiding underneath and between the bigger tires? I have one that's been worked over.  8)  Great vehicles.  :) :)

Always a battle for space in a small cabin no?  Running it via the inside means I have to penetrate the roof (which I'd like to avoid) and will lose loft space.

It's cheaper, of course, and more efficient, but I'm thinking the Quadrafire 2100 series stove won't care -- after all, it's designed to heat a place 2 to 3 times larger!

Unless of course, I can find a smaller catalytic stove that's designed for something in the 400 to 700 sq/ft range?

The XJ has a Banks Torque Tube Header, High Flow Cat, Flow Masters, Rusty's TB Riser, K&N Filter on Rusty's pipe, DUI Dizzy cap and rotor, Firewire Coil, Livewire Plugs, HyperTech III Programming, New computer, new AC pump, new water pump, new fan clutch and relay, 3 core rad, E3 plugs...um....geez, you want me to remember? hehe....Those are Devino's (wheels) with 31's, OME 3" lift with ARB's and JKS quicker disco's, added rear leaf for towing, Warn 8000lbs winch and guard, custom rear bumper, Mastercraft seat.....probably forgetting a lot more.

Still need to change the gears since I'm still on stock ones and need to tweak a few other things -- it never ends!

But at 200k miles she runs great and hauls away!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:15:18 PM by MountainDon »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2009, 05:12:39 PM »
Unless of course, I can find a smaller catalytic stove that's designed for something in the 400 to 700 sq/ft range?

Vermont Casting Aspen


Still need to change the gears since I'm still on stock ones and need to tweak a few other things -- it never ends!

My XJ has 32" tires. I swapped the stock 3.55 gears for 4.56:1 and added ARB's in both diffs at the same time. With the 4.56's the overall average fuel mileage actually went up. Add to that the automatic transmission doesn't "hunt" as much on grades. 4.11's would work well with 31" tires.

I believe there is a break point on the gears. By that I mean one carrier for up to a certain gear ratio and another from that point up. It varies with axle make/model and year. I know the 4.56's required a carrier change which was why I did the gears and lockers all at once.



The 3 core radiator is a cool change; literally.   ;D

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2009, 07:03:59 PM »
Unless of course, I can find a smaller catalytic stove that's designed for something in the 400 to 700 sq/ft range?

Vermont Casting Aspen


Still need to change the gears since I'm still on stock ones and need to tweak a few other things -- it never ends!

My XJ has 32" tires. I swapped the stock 3.55 gears for 4.56:1 and added ARB's in both diffs at the same time. With the 4.56's the overall average fuel mileage actually went up. Add to that the automatic transmission doesn't "hunt" as much on grades. 4.11's would work well with 31" tires.

I believe there is a break point on the gears. By that I mean one carrier for up to a certain gear ratio and another from that point up. It varies with axle make/model and year. I know the 4.56's required a carrier change which was why I did the gears and lockers all at once.



The 3 core radiator is a cool change; literally.   ;D



You know I wondered about the hunting -- on hills it's a killer when cruising down the interstate -- it's got to be my next major job but since I got nabbed twice now for the fenders I just ordered Rusty's to solve that little issue!

I'll check out Vermont Castings for a stove.  I want one that draws fresh air from the outside and is highly efficient (far less smoke).  One of the things I'm facing is a dry climate (not more then 15 inches of rain a year) and high fire hazard times.  So I need to be very careful with the stove and want one that doesn't exhaust much of anything -- hence the catalytic.

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:15:34 PM by MountainDon »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2009, 07:14:00 PM »
The VC Aspen is a non catalytic model. It does have an optional outside air kit. I have a coarse screen in the chimney cap. I've never seen any embers rising. We too live in an area that is very dry most of the year. I like the Aspen, it has good room clearances and is more than enough for our 15.75 x 30 cabin. The big difference between your cabin and mine is that I went the way of very good insulation (R45 attic), very good windows, etc.

This past weekend with the night lows dropping to 40 F I only built one fire, Friday night on arrival. The interior temp never dropped below 67 overnight and I had to open a window a little to get it to drop that far.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2009, 10:15:51 AM »
The VC Aspen is a non catalytic model. It does have an optional outside air kit. I have a coarse screen in the chimney cap. I've never seen any embers rising. We too live in an area that is very dry most of the year. I like the Aspen, it has good room clearances and is more than enough for our 15.75 x 30 cabin. The big difference between your cabin and mine is that I went the way of very good insulation (R45 attic), very good windows, etc.

This past weekend with the night lows dropping to 40 F I only built one fire, Friday night on arrival. The interior temp never dropped below 67 overnight and I had to open a window a little to get it to drop that far.

No loft?  

I'm learning Don!  I looked at this stove and you've sold one!  It's half what I was looking at and should do what I need -- I'll put the screen in and it's actually fairly efficient so that ought to help.

With the 14x24 and 6" walls, 6" floor, 8" rafters and vinyl how do you think this will do when it's below freezing?  I'm guessing just fine since it's rated to 600 sq/ft and I'm only 336!

In fact, I'm so motivated I'm bursting to get back to work!

Gotta love this forum!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:15:49 PM by MountainDon »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2009, 10:50:27 AM »

No loft? 


No loft. There's just Karen & I. Our adult son comes up some weekends and he either sleeps in the RV (which is more or less permanently parked up there and had room for 3 - 4), or he uses the sofa bed in the cabin. Neither K or I have any desire to climb a ladder to get to bed. So, no loft.

With a loft you may find a ceiling an handy for breaking up the stratification of the air. RCH makes a great fan or off grid applications; 12 or 24 VDC. We have the 24 VDC with the airfoil blades, the Vari-Cyclone. Plus we have the speed control.

http://www.thesolar.biz/RCH%20Fan%20Works%20DC%20Fans.htm


As an occasional use cabin you should be fine with a VC Aspen in what you've planned. That said, I am very happy with what I've done with our cabin.  :D

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2009, 10:55:17 AM »
Great stuff thanks!

I'm going to get one of these little stoves -- it makes perfect sense!

You mentioned the 24v system and I've been wondering about my place.  It's mostly on a north slope, albiet gradual, so exposure isn't as good for solar but it isn't bad either.  I do have a south slope up top but that's some 800 feet from the cabin and I don't know if even 48vdc would make that run.

My thinking is that I only really need a small system to run a few lights and maybe a radio so plan on putting in a one panel system with Gen hookup and a small battery bank.  Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:16:02 PM by MountainDon »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2009, 11:25:12 AM »
The first step on the path to deciding what will be necessary for your cabin power is an honest assessment of the needs. How many lights of what size and for how many hours a day? How many cloudy days of use? What other power needs; water pump? microwave? fan? air blower on the stove? TV? ... and so on.

If there are no power hogs in use; microwave, well pump...., then you can MTL get away with a 12 VDC system. I chose a 24 VDC based system because of [1] microwave, [2], toaster, [3] the desire to run power tools w/o the generator running, [4] the desire to have a yard light and power at the gazebo, a 50 ft run and at the shed, a 25 ft run, [5] I know use will grow... there's a blender going up next weekend.

If you were to just run lights you could MTL get away with a 12 VDC system using Thinlite FL lighting.
http://solarseller.com/thinlite_low_voltage_12_volt_d_c__indoor_fluorescent_lighting_.htm
The low wattage units work well, but are best when close to the work area. We have some as under the cabinet lights. I also have one that lights the bathroom, mounted on the ceiling. It works as general lighting, but would never do for fine work like applying make up. That way you could dispense with an inverter and just run 12 VDC. I use a battery powered radio; a year or more on 4 C cells.

A couple, or four, 6 VDC golf car batteries (Sam's Club has the best $$ I've ever found) with a small panel and a cheap basic charge controller should keep them charged; properly sized of course. I ran the RV off 4 gold cart batteries for years and that included the forced air furnace. I used the generator to keep them charged and had a small PV panel to float them during our absences. That worked over the winter too.

800 feet would be a real stretch.  :o  For example at 5 amps maximum current from the panels, you'd need to use a 60 VDC panel array with #2 AWG wire to keep the voltage drop down to 3%. Three percent is a big drop at lower voltages.  




Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2009, 01:04:32 PM »
Thanks Don,

I did some calcs a while back and the more I added the more I saw $$ go up!  Thankfully for this cabin I don't see much requirements -- I need a battery to run my 12v well pump (I use an RV battery and charge it with the generator when running it to power the trailer) and lights.  I was looking a system like this one:

http://www.siliconsolar.com/220w-dc-cabin-power-system-p-50117.html

Or

http://www.readymaderesources.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1177

There was one I found that should do the trick and was cheaper but being a newbie I've been just searching for systems that are turnkey solutions...perhaps I need to just get the pieces and start small?  I don't need much but admit it would be nice to have enough power to do a little more out there -- like run a laptop so I could get some work done maybe (would be nice to escape for a week and work at the same time)....

Anyway, that's where I'm looking...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:16:15 PM by MountainDon »