Author Topic: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland  (Read 17345 times)

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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2016, 08:14:11 AM »
Additional load is half a 2nd floor bay to the next joist and the upper wall load. Visualize it with tall studs and a nailer at 8' across the studs.
The timberlocks will provide a little lateral in the hanger (diameter, depth, density and toenail factor) but the sheathing will do the job if it spans across the post. Another way to provide that tie is a strap from girt to girt over the post and hidden by the sheathing. A roll of Simpson strapping is very handy to have around, or repurposed heavy lumber banding in a pinch.

Of course, the beam will be doing most of the work.  On the floor below all the joists are hanging off the girts.  In looking at the loft it's so much less because the beams are carrying the joists, so the girts  are almost ornamental.  I could probably just toenail in several Timberloks alone and not bother with the hangers.  Or rethink the girt completely.  On the side walls I just need something to support the loft decking.  I could balloon frame the 2x6 wall like you describe and then toenail a girt on the inside.  It wouldn't need to hold up much load, so some nails and Timberloks would suffice.  The picture below shows the middle loft bay framed like that.  The up side to that is the walls and sheathing can go up before I put in the loft decking.  My other design requires the decking go down first much like platform construction.



I like this much better.  The girt really isn't a girt, not even a ledger board.  It's only slightly load bearing.  In fact, at 40+20 psf it carries about 390 lbs.  I guess it's just another joist.
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Offline Don_P

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2016, 07:01:52 PM »
That's what I was thinking. The sketch shows the downside, notice the difference in fire containment in those two wall assemblies. Don't forget to block the stud bays between floors behind that ledger.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2016, 11:59:37 PM »
Yep, I'll be putting in blocking every 4' so that sheathing has complete attachment.  It's just too much of a nuisance to put that in every wall, until the design is semi-final.

So here's the post frame cabin, version 2.0



I've bumped the footprint out by two feet in width and length.  I added a bay, and shortened the bay width in the process.  The posts and tie beams are 8x8 rough-sawn spruce.  The truss plates are 8x10, and the loft beams are 8x12.  I could just squeak by with 8x10 on the loft beams, but to do so would require compromising some of my safety margin.  Walls are 16' from top of truss plate to bottom of rim joist.


The floor joists are 11-7/8 I-joists on 16" center:




I have a post under each of the two loft beams that have the biggest load.  Posts are built-up from dimensional lumber so that they will be the same width as the interior walls.  The 2x6 wall will be a braced wall with plywood sheathing.




I dropped the loft joists down to be flush with the beams.  Can't really carve the beams up so will be hanging joists with concealed flange hangers.  I'm going to try painting them in black or something looking like aged rusty iron.  Tongue and groove 2x6 decking will go on top.




The walls will be framed out with 2x6.  Because these aren't load bearing the window and door headers will be minimal.  I'm planning on scissor trusses with an 8:12 top chord pitch and an 6:12 pitch for the bottom chord.  Eave overhang is 20 inches.




Half inch OSB sheathing will wrap around the entire structure.  Roofing will be standing seam metal and siding will be sheet metal.  I want to build this and not have to worry about maintaining paint or checking for popped screws in the roof.




Timbers will be connected to each other with Timberlinx connectors.  Loft beams will be have a full housing 1.5 inches deep to give full beam support.




Posts will have timber pads sitting on top of packed gravel.  Gravel footing will be 6" deep and at least 3' x 3' to give me plenty of surface area.  I'll use ground anchors and cable to tie the structure down to the ground, much like a mobile home.






My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2016, 03:51:31 AM »
The angle of force I've usually seen drawn through materials is 45 degrees, gravel included. Superior walls install manual has some info. If it is only 6" thick the pier blocks would need to extend to within 6" of the edge to make full use of the 3' width. I've been wondering about a wire fencing lined gravel filled trench under each line with the wire wrapping the rock to retain it... a long gabion. Restraint is an anchor screwed through the bottom of the trench.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2016, 08:48:56 AM »
The angle of force I've usually seen drawn through materials is 45 degrees, gravel included. Superior walls install manual has some info. If it is only 6" thick the pier blocks would need to extend to within 6" of the edge to make full use of the 3' width. I've been wondering about a wire fencing lined gravel filled trench under each line with the wire wrapping the rock to retain it... a long gabion. Restraint is an anchor screwed through the bottom of the trench.

I didn't show it on the last sketch but the piers I am considering are assembled from pressure treated lumber.  The picture below shows on the left what I was thinking of.  Clicking on the pics makes the dimensions readable for my old eyes.



As drawn it provides 12.1 square feet of bearing area.  It also requires 8' of pressure treated 8x8 and 17' of pressure treated 2x12.  Rough estimate of cost for the lumber alone is about $150 per pier.  On the right is a pier made of old railroad sleepers.  As drawn it provides 11.1 square feet of bearing area and costs from $10 to $30 per pier.

I hadn't really given the piers much thought, but your comment got me thinking about anchors too.  Of the various types of ground screws and anchors out there I am thinking something like this: http://milspecanchors.com/5-8-x-36-with-6-helix-screw-anchor/
I have a gas auger, and I figure that I can weld up a jig to hold an eye-bolt in place while I drive it into the ground.  Pull-out strength on that guy is ostensibly 3,500 lbs.  Cables and clamps will secure it to an eye-bolt at the base of the post.  The other thing to think about is securing the top railroad tie to the post.  I'm probably in the realm of a custom fabrication, but I think something like this will do the job.



The lower 4 railroad ties will be fastened together and allowed to float.  Or, I could anchor them to the ground using some sort of lashing system that goes down with the gravel.  The plane between the lower ties and the upper cross piece will be free to allow movement from ground heave or settling, and to allow shimming between them when I need to level the cabin.
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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #80 on: August 07, 2016, 09:36:36 AM »
It's a new week, so it's time for yet another redesign consideration!  I've realized the potential utility of having a band saw mill (band sawmill or bandsaw mill perhaps?) on the property and cutting most of my lumber from my trees and trees I can get nearby.  Before I go out and buy a mill I want to look at ways I can replace lumber bought at the yard with lumber milled on site.  The obvious one is to go from trusses and sheathing to rafters and decking.  Which will require a ridge beam.  So here's the ridge beam and posts that Don_P suggested a while back.  And it doesn't look too far off from where I started this thread! :D



I've started some load calcs and it looks like with a max unsupported span on the ridge beam of 11' 1" it would take a 9x12 timber equivalent to SPF #2.   I can get by with a triple LVL at 9.25 inches.  That's with the two center posts as shown.  I haven't run this design past my wife yet, so I don't know what she thinks of a post in the middle of the living area.  It certainly gives it the rustic Alaska cabin look.  If I use a triple LVL at 11-7/8" I can increase the ridge beam span to 204", which allows me to take out one of the two posts.  I've still got a lot of things to figure out with this design, among them the timber structure, timber joinery, eave and gable overhangs, insulating the roof, etc.  Cutting and milling my own lumber has the potential of saving a lot of cash that I would be spending at the local yard.  It also will add a heck of a lot of time and effort to my project.  At this point I don't really have a lot of either money or time, so the choice isn't an easy one.
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Offline Don_P

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #81 on: August 07, 2016, 06:42:29 PM »
For one house... ahh who am I fooling, it is just about always cheaper to have someone else own the mill and buy the timbers direct from the mil. If there is a portable mill nearby and if you have the timber that is another option, you cut and deck the wood then call in a portable mill. Having a mill opens up a lot of options though, there's a 24" wide x 8" thick white pine natural Y post sitting on the outfeed now.
Glad I could help with the decision  ;D

Offline NathanS

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2016, 06:25:20 AM »
A little saw mill is high up on my priority list right now. We have so much white Ash that is getting ready to die from EAB. Tons of mature 20-24" DBH.

Will you be lifting the timbers/LVLs on your own? I just lifted two 36' 11 7/8 LVLs by myself for the second floor deck. It would not have been enjoyable to raise those 30 feet up to a ridge beam.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2016, 07:07:51 AM »
A little saw mill is high up on my priority list right now. We have so much white Ash that is getting ready to die from EAB. Tons of mature 20-24" DBH.

Will you be lifting the timbers/LVLs on your own? I just lifted two 36' 11 7/8 LVLs by myself for the second floor deck. It would not have been enjoyable to raise those 30 feet up to a ridge beam.

I don't plan on working solo.  My wife and son will be available, and I am hoping I can lure some friends out for a weekend of fun.  I'm planning on building a shear leg hoist, or something along those lines.  See Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_legs
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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2016, 11:16:12 PM »
I've spent the last several hours, and several ounces of fine bourbon, trying to work my way through the ASCE 7-02 tome on wind and snow loads.  My remaining life is now several hours shorter and my supply of bourbon is diminished as well, but I don't feel like I've made much progress cutting this Gordian knot.  Ah, the fun to be had on a Friday night!  c*



In other news, I am awaiting the delivery of my Woodland Mills HM 130 bandsaw mill.  My wife, who has been very tolerant of my recent obsessive-compulsive behavior, seems to be getting weary of my boyish excitement.  I'm thinking of composing a tune for her. something along the lines of I'm picking out a bandsaw for you...



You think it will win her over?
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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Building a 12x16 shed
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2017, 09:19:29 AM »
Life goes on, thankfully.  I brought my father out to the property in September and we spent some time hunting moose and caribou.  It was a wonderful trip that yielded no ungulates but we were serenaded almost nightly by a wolf pack.  That probably had something to do with the scarcity of moose.   :o

Dad had a great time, but the trip highlighted a major family issue that we are all coming to terms with.  My parents are nearing their mid-80s and it became clear this year that my dad can no longer take 10-day hunting trips away from my mother.  I would like for them to come out and stay on our property together, so I've decided to put up a 12x16 guest cabin that they can stay in when they make the trip this summer.  This is going to be a compressed schedule project and I'm willing to sacrifice quality or longevity for the sake of quick construction.  If I get it dried in before the spring melt I can finish up enough for it to be habitable come July.

My plan is for 2x6 stick frame construction built on pressure-treated skids.  The skids will rest upon railroad tie piers which will sit on a crushed gravel base.  If I go with a basic roof I'll probably have about 6:12 pitch with metal roofing.  Rafter ties will serve as ceiling joists and I'll probably go with strapping over the top to keep the rafters from uplifting.

Or... it would be nice to get some storage/sleep space by putting in a loft.  If I use 10' studs and balloon frame a loft floor at about 8' or so, that gives me a knee wall of just under 24".  A 12:12 pitch roof would give me a max ceiling height of just under 8'.  My problem is I don't know if I can get way with the loft joists serving as rafter ties, or do I need a structural ridge?  I'd really like to have a non-structural ridge so that all load is on the non-gable walls, which sit above the PT skids.  Assuming loft joists are "good enough" to resist rafter thrust, I'm wondering if balloon framing is sufficient to hold the wall studs in tension.  Am I overthinking this?

Edit: Doh!  I figured out my loft joist issue.  I was envisioning joists connected to the rim board via joist hangers.  There is no need for that, as I can put the joists above the rim board.  The rim board will bear the load, and the joist will extend beyond so that I can nail the joist into the wall studs.  That will give me a connection that will hold in tension.  I'm still concerned about the fact that the rafters will sit on a top plate that will be ~24" above the rafter ties.  I guess a steep roof pitch with metal roofing will shed the snow readily enough that I needn't get too concerned about rafter thrust.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2017, 04:34:52 AM »
Try drawing it with 16' joists extending through the wall to form soffit and tie connection to the rafters outside, beyond the wall line ~2'.  Also consider a gravel pad and railroad ties laid and lapped log cabin fashion for the foundation rather than piers.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2017, 02:01:20 PM »
Took me a while to puzzle out the 16' joist suggestion but I think I have it.  Actually am planning on railroad tie cribbing for my piers, not the wee little concrete block things.  I'll play with Sketchup a bit and see what I can put together.
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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2017, 02:46:56 PM »
Alrighty then!  Here's what I think you're suggesting Don.  It seems pretty obvious once I've drawn it up, does a great job at keeping the rafters in tension against the outward thrust.







I had been hoping to cheat the top plate up a little bit to get a few more inches of head room in the loft.  Having the joists run out to the eaves keeps my knee wall at 24" so I'll just have to make do with a bit less head room.
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Offline Don_P

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2017, 04:08:10 PM »
Yup, you got it. Looks good to my eye. Wouldn't take much more to roof the porch, the slippery slope  :D

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2017, 02:32:17 PM »
Saw these tracks last week.  The imprint near my glove isn't sharp enough to tell for certain, but I'm thinking it's a lynx galloping through the deep snow.

 
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Offline VannL

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #91 on: March 16, 2017, 07:27:32 AM »
That's a big boy out there. Hope he won't mind the new neighbor. LOL
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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #92 on: March 16, 2017, 11:02:36 AM »
I also saw a red fox that trip.  It was trotting across a lake as I was crossing on my trail.  It heard me coming and bolted.  It was cool, the biggest fur-bearer I've seen yet.
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Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2017, 05:00:18 PM »
Lynx tracks are cool! I have a couple of wolves pics on the trail cam. Thanks on the Imgur. worked great!

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #94 on: March 28, 2017, 01:54:58 PM »
I've been hauling materials to the property the last couple of weekends.  For remote building the big metric is the weight of materials hauled.  So far I'm up to about 5 tons for the guest cabin.  Here's my new heavy hauler, a komatik style of freight sled that I crafted from a black cottonwood I milled last fall.



I've made three runs with this new sled so far.  My first trip was with a towbar I welded myself using 1.5" angle iron.  I think the angle was up to the job, but my welding wasn't.  I hit a stump and broke the bar.  So I turned to Craigslist and found a local welder that was available and affordable.  With my new towbar I can haul some pretty heavy loads.  This is a stack of plywood that is in spitting distance of 2,000 lbs.



Edit: Also saw a cow and calf moose.  As usual, my picture-taking is abysmal.  It was some comfort seeing them there though, glad to see the wolves hadn't chased all the moose away.
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Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #95 on: March 28, 2017, 05:37:27 PM »
Nice sled! That is a great idea.  [cool]

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #96 on: March 28, 2017, 06:39:00 PM »
Thanks.  The gold standard for hauling freight is a four-ski version like this:



But those cost about $3,000 and mine I built for about $450.
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Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2017, 07:01:33 PM »
Damn, three grand? Holy crap! Reminds me of the Amish sleigh we used one year for our lumberjack weekend. Same thing all wood but twice as high. Pulled by work horses.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story in a Winter Wonderland
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2017, 02:04:02 PM »
For anyone interested in the progress of the guest cabin build, I started a separate thread: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property

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