latex or oil on t1- 11?

[Leo]

painting or staining time is at hand.the exterior is gp 5/8 syp t1-11.The manufacturer recommends latex primer and paint ,my always at hand book by Nash recommends oil based stain?I would prefer a transparent or semi transparent finnish. any suggestions ?

[Amanda_931]

I had the plywood type of T1-11 in Nashville.

Never did anything with it.  It weathered naturally.  Lasted around 20 years.  Areas under the eaves were less weathered than the rest.  Didn't bother me any.

[Jochen]

I would never ever put any kind of latex paint or stain on wood. Wood has to breath and will work, expand and tighten! So your latex will not last very long. I would use oil instead.

Jochen

[Leo]

I agree but the manufacturer suggest latex ?Its getting a oil stain. thanks

[Yetanothermike]

Hi Leo,

You actually raised two distinct choices:

1) stain or paint?
Stains are easier to apply, require no primer, and soak into rough-textured wood like T1-11 to give better color depth, but they limit you to a flat sheen, can look blotchy, and provide little protection on the surface of the wood.

Paint creates a surface film and will provide your T1-11 with much better protection from water and sun than a stain.  Also, it will provide you with more color and sheen options.  

2) oil or latex?

I prefer the way oil-based paints flow on and wear over time, but modern latex paints are excellent and with a good primer will adhere to T1-11 for years and years.   Their colors usually don't fade or turn chalky, and they are easier to clean up.  I also find that latex paints are more flexible and handle the expansion and contraction of wood better than oil-based paints which harden over time.

When it comes to wood breathing, latex is a better choice than oil:

"latex paints create a breathable film that allows a modicum of moisture to penetrate, whereas oil paints create a more or less watertight surface." -- The Art of Exterior Painting, Benjamin Moore Paints.

I think the main reason that latex gets a bad reputation in some quarters is that people use cheap paint or apply it over oil paint, dirt, or grey wood without adequate prep work or primers.   Latex paints can also appear rubbery or plastic-like if applied with a heavy hand or too many coats are applied over the years.  

Regarding your manufacturer's recommendation; I would call and ask how they feel about stain.  If your T1-11 is OSB (oriented-strand-board not plywood), use paint.  It's particularly important that you protect the entire sheet from water at the front, back, sides, and particularly the bottom edge.  OSB based T1-11 turns into porridge over time if exposed to moisture.

Good luck,

-Mike

"There's only two colors to paint a boat -- white and black -- and only a fool would paint a boat black."

[peg_688]

[size=12]

 Good point YAM So it Depends , on specific intel. / info. Ya can't answer , with any resonable chance of a "right" answer , with faulty/ non specific  info/ intel

 Just ask GWB what poor intel / info will do for ya :'(

Paint it if it's OSB type , with latex , acrilic latex I think is a better paint today than oil as EPA has forced removal of the stuff that made old paint good .

They never figured people / kids would eat the paint


So we won't go there, Good luck , PEG



   [/size]  

[glenn-k]

[size=12]

 
 Just ask GWB what poor intel / info will do for ya :'(


   [/size]  

You gotta remember, --- he was born that way PEG--

See --I'm not disrespectful--- at least I didn't say "His mother should have sat on him when he was born."

[JRR]

I agree with all Mike said.  A couple of years ago we covered a cabin with T1-11 that was thouroughly coated (soaked) with Olympia linseed oil formula.  Looked great for about one year ... then the dark "patina" set in.  Now looks a bit like uneven rot.

We are now going to refinish with Behr latex   "Guaranteed for Life" .... could mean something to a younger person.

[John_M]

All of this talk about wood and stain and paint makes me glad I have decided on a cement fiberboard siding.  I know it is not wood, but new products today can make it look like wood and if you just use latex paint, you can't tell that it isn't wood!

Just something to consider if you have not yet put up your siding.

http://www.jameshardie.com/

[FrankInWI(Guest)]

John M ...how does the cost compare?

[John_M]

It is as cheap or cheaper than regular wooden clapboard siding.  A 6" x 12 foot piece at Home Depot is about $5 or $6 and it is already primed.

There is also a product that you can use to stain it to make it look like wood.  Mickey used it on his cabin (See project section).

[PEG688]

My opinion is that it does not look anything like wood .   You should look at some yourself to see if it will work for you. [highlight]I would not put it on my own home / cabin [/highlight], I do install a lot of it and around here it is the most "popular siding" going right now and has been for 7 to 10 years I'd guess.

It is cheaper, you'll want a roofing nail gun to nail it on as you top/ blind  nail it every where you can. It is "allowable " to face / bottom nail it on cuts under windows , rake cuts on gable ends that won't "lay flat", etc .

 Hand nailing it is hard ,, as it is cement.  I only bring that up as you may not have the compressor and nail gun you'll "Almost need" ,,really wish you had one (Roofing nail gun),  if you decide to go with the Hardi.

 It does paint ok, seems to hold the paint well, etc .  

 Good luck , PEG

[Amanda_931]

What about the synthetic--concrete based--deck boards? feel the same way about them PEG?

[PEG688]

 About the only non wood decking I've installed is Trex, it's plastic based I think.

 Again I installed a lot of it , but my deck is Alaskian yellow cedar, screwed down with stainless screws and all the screw hole are bunged/ plugged and pared off flush.

Trex is weird ,I think, I don't like the look it is not slippery which I thought it would be so thats good , it doesn't rot , it does seem to sort of "swell" as the gaps close up after a summer , we install it with "Trex spacers " (plastic guides) and keeping it straight is a PITB . we lay 4 or 5 runs out" tacking it down "at the ends with the spacers as guides. Then we pull a string line (30 lbs mono) down the outer run  straighten that row . then go back into the field spacing tweaking using the spacers , and a" Fair eye " what looks best  

 We use the wide side of the Trex spacer it is about 3/8" scant IIRC. The spaces look to wide but aftera summer they close up to what we want. Convining the client that will happen is also a PITB.

 So I'm not sure about any concert based deck products.

The other thing that sort of tics me off is 30 years ago I started cuz I love to work with wood , seems every year we use LESS wood  :'(

 Might be close to time to try that wood worker thing

 PEG  

[John_M]

I think that those pictures sent to us by Mickey sold me on the cement fiber siding with acrylic stain.  I have ordered some samples of the product and will apply some on some hardiboard to see for myself.  The positives sure seem to outweigh the negatives.

PEG, you seem to be loyal to wood and I respect that.  Could that possibly be impacting your dislike for these "new products"

[PEG688]

.

PEG, you seem to be loyal to wood and I respect that.  Could that possibly be impacting your dislike for these "new products"

  [size=12]

 Where all intitled to or opinions, IMO nothing looks as good as real wood for decking , siding , furinture etc,

 Plastic and cement have there place ,  driveways and for car parts  

 PEG

[/size]

[glenn kangiser]

........and bags for carrying out your groceries.  I agree with PEG, I haven't taken a liking to Trex or similar products- maybe I'm worse - I don't like OSB and engineered wood products - but where would most projects be without them?  It's about the only way they can build for the masses.  It does have good structural qualities and an unpleasant smell. :-/

There is a white vinyl fence down the road a couple of miles. White 2x6 rails -and white 4x4 posts.  While it is meant to be the same look as a country board fence --to me it is not really pleasing to the eye.  The sterile plastic look comes right through.  In its favor, it won't need paint in it's lifetime.  I wonder how long it is guaranteed against UV damage?

[JRR]

'til it cracks!

[bartholomew]

Apparently Trex and similar synthetic decking can get very hot in the sun, too hot to stand on with bare feet.

I like wood too, except for the fact that it catches fire a lot more easily than the alternatives. Is there any effective fire treatment that doesn't discolor the wood or require re-application too frequently?

[glenn kangiser]

The only thing we've talked about here that I remember is waterglass - sodium silicate, and borates are supposed to help a bit I think.

I haven't tried the waterglass and just used the borates for bugs.

If the plastic gets hot enough to burn you may have dioxin release - just from something I read recently.  Not sure if it affects Trex -etc.

[Amanda_931]

Timbersil (the sodium silicate--waterglass--treated stuff) won't be out for a while yet.  Unfortunately.

May be able to do some good by just painting the waterglass on.

I was thinking of using Trex for a porch deck.   Maybe not.  Jonesey used one of those on his house.  And I will say that he takes better care of the environment than I do.

But I surely do agree with you on vinyl fences.  They sure are ugly.  And visible.  They don't look too bad in the store, even next to wood panels, but get a bunch of them in a line outside....   And I feel the same way about vinyl siding.

Of course I had a guy working for me once who thought the same about aluminum fence vs. steel.

[cecilia]

Not sure if my remarks will offer any worthwhile contribution to this topic........ but ......... at the Duckpond we've used several different types of timber finishes - depending on need. For example:

1. Exterior timber (timber garage, upper storey cladding and external posts and windows and doors (and window and door frames).
Here we've used a tung oil which has a UV protection. This oil seems to slightly darken the timber, but allows the grain of the timber to be clearly visible.

2. Interior timber which gets no hard wear (internal posts, timber walls, inside of window and door frames etc.
Just a straight tung oil used in these places (lovely citrus smell)

3. Upstairs floors, and all the stair treads
A tung oil with added resin. We were a little nervous about how the floors would wear, but being upstairs they don't get a lot of traffic - except for my studio. The timber is pretty hard and well seasoned (over 100 year old re-machined messmate).  The floors are wonderful - they have a low satin sheen, but the wood grain is totally unimpeded by the oil as far as looks.

4. Timber bench tops
We've used Danish oil - several coats, rubbed in with a fine steel wool. The bench tops in the part of the house which has been inhabited for 12 months have not suffered any of those ghastly white marks from hot plates etc. In the past, even just very warm things placed on a mat on tables with an estapol finish showed white foggy patches.

Any scratches can just be rubbed over with the steel wool and a little oil.

I think that's about all the different timber finishes we've used. Totally happy with all of them.

Happy to post some photos if anyone wants me to.

cheers from downunder
cecilia
www.duckpond-design.com.au/theduckpond

[PEG688]

Happy to post some photos if anyone wants me to.

 We aways like photos  

[cecilia]

Well PEG - you said you like photos, so here are a few of our oiled timbers


Here's the garage wall with the UV protection tung oil.


The staircase (messmate) before oiling................. and


after oiling with Tung Oil Finish (which has an added resin.


My studio floor (where I swiped all the knottiest/holey boards)


Spotted gum, which is on one large wall and the stairwell walls. (Tung Oil)


One of the blackwood bench tops (Danish oil)

That will probably be enough for now I'd think. To sum up - I'd go for as natural a finish as I possibly could to retain the true beauty of the original timber.

cecilia
www.duckpond-design.com.au/theduckpond

[glenn-k]

Beauty, Cecilia.  Did you T&G the floor -  if so did you do it yourself - what tools did you use?  Thanks, Glenn