Rodent-Free Structure | Foundation & Roof?

[Kristen]

What kind of foundation and roof ensure a rodent-free structure?

[Amanda_931]

One with no openings?

A little red house with no doors and no windows with a star inside???
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(well, it could be yellow or green)
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(but it also might be food for the rodents)
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http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/storyapple.htm

[Sassy]

I like the word pictures  

[glenn kangiser]

Don't think I've ever seen one of those, Kristen. :-/

Probably the tighter and more well sealed with attention to detail would help, however lots of these critters make their own entrances.  In our case we have acres of trees and wild animals around us.  I could walk 300 feet through the brush and find a woodrat nest.  The are pretty adaptable and don't mind camping in a people house either.  Fresh bait every so often in various places helps a lot, as well as good cats and even snakes.

Unfortunately our cats keep getting eaten by coyotes and most of our snakes are rattlers.

Probably better ideas and suggestions to come.

[T]

I remember years ago, a family down the road had a cabin they would enjoy from time to time. They had a couple kids and found some entertainment in the evening by tossing Oreo's (whatever) to a family of raccoons off their back deck. Anyways, later when they locked up the cabin and returned home, the raccoons decided to come inside and get their own cookies. Apparently they worked an area right thru the wall (I think).. What a mess, they nested in the couch, tore into about everything that wasn't in a metal can. The owner had to almost gut the inside. If I remember right he said he ended up having to get a small home load to get it back to normal.

sorry for the rant...

If you can eliminate a food source you can cut it down some. I had some issues with nesting 'rodents' in insulation of the floor joists when winter would start to set in. After using 1/4 mesh and roofing nails to cover the underside exposed area between the floor joists, I haven't had any trouble in that dept. You can use steel screen but for larger rodents the 1/4 in seems to be a bit better. However, the occasional 'house mouse' is almost impossible as mentioned with out taking some active measures. When you live with nature, nature will want to live with you.  

[John_M]

When you live with nature, nature will want to live with you

I love that quote....I need to mention that one to my wife!

[Kristen]

I'd never had a structural rodent issue until...ugh...I moved into a townhouse...where I had no authority to have the dead carcass removed from wherever it had died inside the walls.  I talked to an exterminator who said something about ensuring a certain foundation and roofing style when I build so I thought someone might know.

[Kristen]

I hear you, Glenn.  For some reason, when I had cats, they'd bring live birds, snakes and rodents into the house (along with a wild cat that didn't realize it was headed into human domain...they'd also share their space with skunks and racoons...go figure).  Nothing like forgetting to turn on the light while letting them in...stepping barefoot onto a squiggly furry thing...and then having to search the house for it all night long.  Then there was the deer-meets-cat-nose-to-nose moment...those I could live with again.  Um...but okay...back to the rodents.  Ewwwwww.  Wanna prevent them and the structure will be the only lure I'll have to worry about.  Phew.

[Sassy]

LOL, Kristen... I mentioned this before, but I remember when one of our cats was "playing" with a big wood rat ( a packrat that lives in the woods-they're actually kinda cute) by throwing it high up into the air.  I was sitting by the woodstove in my recliner in my nightie with a quilt over my lap when she threw it extra high & it landed right in my lap   - you never saw anyone get out of a chair so fast!  
While I was dancing around & yelling, Glenn was sitting in his recliner laughing!  :-/ I asked him why he didn't help me & he said "You were too funny."  

I'm not especially afraid of mice or rats - in fact my sons have had them as pets, as long as they are in a controlled environment, they're fine, but I DON'T LIKE THEM IN MY WALLS OR ON THE SHELVES EATING INTO BOXES & BAGS OF FOOD  

This week I spent quite a bit of time clearing spider webs - I seem to have to do it at least every week (at both our conventional home & the cabin - Glenn just can't understand why I don't just leave them in peace, he says "they aren't bothering anybody."  I especially abhor [size=16]black widows![/size]  

[Kristen]

Sassy - OMG!!  EWWWW!!  OMGOMGOMG!!

[glenn kangiser]

Wow -Kristen -- you really get excited over critters.

[Kristen]

Hey, gals must stick together, having earned the right to freak over rodents, snakes and other flying half-dead things trying to invade our nest.

[Amanda_931]

Hmm.  I'd thought that Black Widow spiders weren't web builders.  They are.  And they're pretty much all over the U.S., not just the Southeast.  So today, for just a moment, I wasn't perfect.    (taken, very roughly, from a Hoyt Axton song)

http://www.srv.net/~dkv/hobospider/widows.html

[glenn-k]

Yup -- put my hand through many a widow web.  I can always tell it.  Rather sticky very tough web.

Sassy slipped the other day and I got her a chair out in front of the house.  Before I gave it to her I ran my fingers through the spider web-- felt that it was a widows -- turned the chair upside down and there she was in all her glory.

Pokey -pokey with the stick took care of that one but it is a good idea to always check if you are in an area where they may be.

Especially guys using an old outhouse.  Ouch. :-/

 Copied the beautiful image from your link, Amanda.

[Amanda_931]

In the Denning/Phillips Psychic Self-Defense and Well-Being or something else (Creative Visualization?) by the same people, the authors mention a woman who asked the mice to leave.  She explained very carefully why she cared, didn't make promises she couldn't keep, etc., asked nicely, and the mice left.

I keep trying something like that.  Sometimes it works.  Although I'd guess if people didn't get upset and start flailing around, that wasps, for instance, would just go away from us.  And that may be 95% of the point.

But Psychic Self Defence in particular is a favorite book.  Practical is the name of the series.  Fits in this case.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Psychic-Self-Defense-Guides-Llewelynn/dp/0875421903/sr=1-14/qid=1160102115/ref=sr_1_14/104-0044107-5267922?ie=UTF8&s=books

My dad heard a story of a guy in an outhouse getting bit by a black widow.  It sounded pretty gruesome when he retold it to the family.  

And webs are described in the web-sites as being pretty distinctive, both in shape and material.

[Freeholdfarm]

This is one reason why I really want a house with no hollow spaces for critters to hide in.  We lived for twelve years in an 1850's farmhouse in New Hampshire, and it was a nightly event to listen to the mice having foot-races in the ceiling over our heads.  I had to keep bait in my kitchen cupboards all the time.  We also had black wasps nesting in the wall cavities, and in the winter, when it was warmer inside the house than outside, they'd find their way in -- I think all of us got stung at least twice.  Oh, and there was a starling nest in an inaccessible area under the roof above the living room . . . not to mention the haunted-house spider webs that festooned the cellar.  If I sent one of my daughters down-cellar to get something out of the freezer, she'd take a broom with her to clear the cobwebs out of her way!  Now, I know this was an old house, and far from being tightly constructed.  But if I ever get to build myself a house, it will have solid walls with no cavities anywhere for critters to hide in!!

Kathleen

[glenn-k]

More than you will ever want to know about Black Widows.

http://www.donn.com/essays.htm#THE%20BLACK-WIDOW%20SPIDER

[Freeholdfarm]

I just read Amanda's comment about how people might not get stung by wasps if they wouldn't flail around -- we weren't flailing around when we got stung by wasps inside our house!  They would be flying around inside a room and just bump into you -- they weren't aggressive at all, just not very good navigators, LOL!  Then there were a couple incidents of someone stepping on one that had landed on the floor, and one time when I got into bed and immediately was stung by a wasp that had crawled under the covers . . . you get really tired of that kind of thing after a while!  I should mention that nobody in our family freaks out at bees or wasps or stuff like that, because my (ex) husband is a beekeeper.  My daughters would actually pet the honeybees as they were gathering nectar in the yard!

Kathleen

[glenn-k]

My daughter when about 4 years old used to rescue honey bees that got wet getting water from a bucket by an outside faucet.  Just let them crawl up her hand out of the water. They were there to pollinate almond tree blooms.  She never did get stung that I recall.

[jraabe]

To get back to Kristen's initial question. You probably can't build a critter proof house any more than you can build a maintenance free house. However, here are some things that will help:

• A sealed and insulated concrete perimeter foundation.
• All non-treated wood at least 8" above the soil.
• All exterior wood cedar or treated
• A tight, well-sealed house with weatherstripped doors and windows and controlled and screened ventilation.
• A roof without open chutes or ridges. (some metal and tile roofs invite bats and other critters).
• Good drainage around the house. No standing water. Controlled vegetation and no rotting wood nearby.
• A dog (or cat)

[woundedsky]

Next spring, I want to build a cabin out of pressure treated 6x6x8 beams for my foundation. I know there is no such thing as a rodent free structure, but I was wondering if there are anything that I can do while I'm building to prevent rodents from coming in? I know that a sealed and insulated concrete perimeter foundation, is an excellent choice, but it's not something that I have the resources for.  I was wondering there are some tips/ideas to try to prevent the rodents coming in. I know the basics such as, what John Raabe mentioned. Is there anything else like Tyvek'ing underneath and top of sub floor?  Is there anything else that I can do?  

[Amanda_931]

Put hardware cloth around everything you care about? (galvanized wires with 3/8 or 1/2" spaces between them.  Not very clothlike.  We've been using it to get the worst of the stones out of some clay)  Might keep the mice out of the food boxes/pantry.

[glenn-k]

I read of steel wool in the holes one time -- confirmed by the radio transmitter guys.  Not great for prevention but good after they make the problem.

"Curtis Flick provides technical services in the Akron, Ohio, area. Although a can of expanding foam will keep weather - as well as insects and rodents - out of the transmitter building, note that rodents, especially mice, will eat the cured foam.
Fig. 1: Use steel wool and expanding foam to seal cable entries in coupling unit buildings or enclosures.

Unless you lace the foam plug with steel wool, foam alone is not the best way to stop rodents. The foam will stop insects, and the steel wool will stop rodents. See Fig. 1. This tip is also useful in sealing cabling inputs to equipment racks and transmitters. "

I was also thinking aboout tin collars around pier posts or wrapping them with aluminum flashing but that would probably not work everywhere.

Here are some pest prevention guidelines I found.

http://schoolipm.info/managing_pests/pest_prevention_construct.cfm

Welcome to the forum, woundedsky.  I don't think Tyvek will have any effect on rodents and it is really slippery to walk on until it is covered.  Building paper would probably do about as much -- maybe more if they don't like the taste of the thin coat of tar in the center of it.  I just found a new heavy duty reinforced tarp over a bale of alfalfa they chewed a hole in for no known reason.

[woundedsky]

Thanks for the feedback on this. I really love this forum!

[glenn-k]

Glad you like the forum -- we have lots of good people here.....    and me too.