trying to buy land on Whidbey.....many questions

[tellous_design]

Hello~

I am trying to buy some property on Whidbey Island and ultimately self build a cabin/home there.

I have many many questions and wonder if anyone on this board has done this, in Island County, Washington and can give me some pointers.

What is the owner/builder clause for the islands?

Will a bank finance my land purchase if they know this is what I intend to do?

What type of restroom facilites will meet code and qualify as a bathroom?

What is the minimum footage to be considered a home?

I am self employed which undoubtably is more problematic to the lenders I am dealing with.

What is a good way to finance the purchase of land? I do not make a bazillion dollars, about (40k - 60k), and was hoping to buy some land for around <150k and then build a home there using my best friends expertise (he works at the Seattle Opera on sets)

Can anyone recommend a good book on financing land to self build a home?

How are land loans typically structured?

this is all so challenging.

Thank you, am young, new to all this.

aaarrrgggh

Justin

[Kristen]

I'm in the same boat so I really look forward to hearing responses to this thread.  My plan is to build a one room studio with unique partition (theatre curtain?  sliding wall partitions made from painting canvases?) that can separate the bathroom/bedroom from the rest of the space, if needed.  I can easily use a folding screen (what most people use as decorative faux changing screen) to provide toilet privacy, but I'm not sure that is "legal".  Basically, I love one big open space and need to use it as my personal dance studio too, so at under 800sf, I'd like to avoid interior walls altogether.  Thanks!

[PEG688]

#1:  I am trying to buy some property on Whidbey Island and ultimately self build a cabin/home there.

#2:  I have many many questions and wonder if anyone on this board has done this, in Island County, Washington and can give me some pointers.

#3:  What is the owner/builder clause for the islands?

#4:   Will a bank finance my land purchase if they know this is what I intend to do?

#5:   What type of restroom facilites will meet code and qualify as a bathroom?

#6:    What is the minimum footage to be considered a home?

#7:  I am self employed which undoubtably is more problematic to the lenders I am dealing with.

#8:   What is a good way to finance the purchase of land?


#9:  I do not make a bazillion dollars, about (40k - 60k), and was hoping to buy some land for around <150k and then build a home there using my best friends expertise (he works at the Seattle Opera on sets)

Justin

#1: Welcome to the forum . Bring lots of money land is expencive on The Rock

#2:  I'm carpenter on Whidbey , the county is hard to deal with , at least for Builders.

#3:  There is one I believe it's a 2 year permit meaning they expect you to finish in that time frame , extentions are always granted at least for a extra year. At least as far is I know anyway

#4: That is a question for the bank , it would be based on many factors , your personal credit history , the accual piece of land and it's precived value against what you'd owe, etc . can't answer any of those for you , your on your own there.

#5:  A toilet and shower is a bath room , it will be your septic system that will be your issue , and that is based solely on the land you buy, unless it's in a city with septic system. very few communties have septic systems , so again almost a unanswerable question.

#6:  For who the county or the bank? In the county under the IRC 2003 you can build a structure under 200 sqr. feet without a permit . There's is no minium requirement , as far as I know by code . The bank is a totally different storey . They want something they can sell IF you default = do not pay , your payments , so the bank /loaner would be the issue  here.

#7: You got it.  

#8:  Pay cash up front  

#9: Good luck, lots, poor ones, are going for $200 K and up . So good luck on both the price and the helper from Seattle, as it is about a 2 hour drive , roughly one way at least to the north end so he better be a really good friend or better yet ,a girl friend, cuz it will get old driving to Whidbey to work every week n your cabin / house unless "other factors "  ;)not stated are involved.

Again welcome to the forum and good luck , potential neighbor    

[John Raabe]

Hi Guys:

You probably should have been here in 1978 when you could really do what you would like to do today!

The reality is that Whidbey island is now seen as affordable only to folks selling a house in some other higher priced RE area. This is the reason for the graying of the local population. Younger folks starting out can't afford to live and build here anymore.

There are still places where land and building are affordable and a country lifestyle on the land is within reach. Unfortunately those places aren't in the Pacific Northwest or even the west coast. Arkansas and Texas both have some great hill country areas that are worth considering.

If you can afford the entry fee, the NW is great - prices continue to go up at 8%-10% a year and have for 30 years. But it's a killer to jump on once the merry-go-round is already up to speed.

[PEG688]

Who you calling gray old man  

[tellous_design]

thanks for the pointers guys....

maybe i am numbed to my neighborhood in seattle, but houses on 3-5 acres on whidbey below 250k, or lots below 200k seem incredibly reasonable to me?

there are many of these, in current listings....

i just wonder how much construction one could do themselves, if inspection would be necessary, and if land loans have the stipulation you must build to some agreed upon square footage within 2 years. will a land loan be given for 30 years?

would they consider a number of small cottages to be 1 square footage (as in 240 and 360 = 600 ft)?

the commute from here is only 45 minutes with the mukilteo ferry, and i am a writer/designer/artist so can work literally from anywhere, and keep a small office in town....


i do wish i was there in 1978. an old hermit type guy i have been discussing purchasing property from has many heartbreaking stories about the smelt disappearing and various logging projects decimating the shellfish. this is so sad.


if anyone has information on undertaking anything similar to what i have expressed here, on whidbey or in the puget sound area, would looove to talk with you


justin

[PEG688]

You should come up and look , the lots under 200 are small in new = crappy comunites, generally . YMMV but most sites under 200 are not what I think your talking about . A bank would not laon money to a owner builder , nor would the development company , MTL sell to one . These "new " communities are cookie cutter places , all about the same srq footage all about the same look , ya know , CRAP! There I said it

You will have to get inspected in or out of the city / county period .   You could buy land and squat on it I guess , the land would have value either way , build 3 / 4 / 5 200 square foot and under sheds , IF YOU PUT IN SEPTIC that is where the powers that be will stop you.

If you can get to Whidbey , including the ferry ride in 45 min. from Seattle down town let me know when your coming north so I can stay off the road

Good luck, PEG    

[glenn kangiser]

an old hermit type guy i have been discussing purchasing property from

PEG -- have you already been talking to Justin about selling him some property?

[tellous_design]

hmmm....

why would they stop you from building septic? or do you mean they have a limit on the number of people using a certain septic system?

if it was permitted and professionals were doing it, wouldnt they just let you build a 15x25 cabin with a separate bath house that had a solid septic system installed?

i can get to south whidbey in roughly 45 minutes. truly. in high traffic, during a rush hour commute, of course not, but if you time the ferry promptly and the drive from here to there is 20-25 minutes, it works. thankfully i wouldn't need to commute though.

i have been up there with a realtor looking at property and homes and have seen the houses you are talking about which are being built up there, on the developer owned land. you are right, they are completly disgusting. the saddest thing of all is that they come in and level 90% of the tree and brush to create these big dumb suburban ideas.  that is what really disturbs me, the level of arrogance/ignorance people have for ecology.

thanks for info and comments, really.....

[tellous_design]

oh,

and does anyone have a link to the island county building codes?


(i just posted this, but then found the link:)


http://www.islandcounty.net/code/


i am going to pick through these terribly long, boring codes to see what the rules are for minimum structures and septic......


ok, here is septic regulations.....lots of info:

http://www.islandcounty.net/code/documents/ICC08.pdf


j

[PEG688]

No Glenn I have not     And tellous I'm givin ya straight , or as straight, of  answers to your question as possible.

So your the guy the cops are tryin ta catch weaving in and out of traffic lanes down in the city, eh So what not to like  :-? :-?

You read up on those septic codes you'll see what I'm talking about, they go by bedrooms # of that is , and like I said it will be the loan people / bank that will have issue with a loan on a odd / small house . To Specialized / hard to sell if you default , that was my point , it won't be the cookie cutter they (the bank) is used to loaning money agianst.

 G/ L ... REALLY  

[tellous_design]

thanks peg.

it is all dang complicated.

i am printing out pages 180-240 of the 'septic code'......fun

whidbey is beautiful and the islanders would be an interesting enough cast of characters to run into around town to make the whole convoluted prospect worthwhile


j

[Kristen]

It seems land/home prices shock me everywhere now, including Alaska.  Or does it just feel this way as we age?  To make things easier for my planning, I just talked with Countrywide and Island County...

Countrywide...
1)  Offers lot and home construction loans in WA (office in Oak Harbor)
2)  Wants structure similar to others in area (Whidbey has a little of all, so that's a "home free" to me)
3)  Requires the structure adheres to local building codes

Island County...
1)  Does not regulate whether bedrooms/bathrooms have walls/doors - and I quote, "It's your choice." (YAY!)
2)  Considers one room inhabitable lone structure (must be 190sf+) a single family residence
3)  Gives one bedroom+ septic recommendations based on miscellaneous factors

Of course, it's always wise to call back and verify everything.

[Kristen]

I've been watching Whidbey property prices daily for the last two years.  Recently, there has been a nice dip in asking prices ($25,000-$50,000).  I'm still watching and waiting, but it's hope for buyers.  Then again, interest rates are rising.  The good news:  It keeps me downsizing even more.

[tellous_design]

that is really valuable info kristen....thank you

are you looking to live there?

there are some reasonablly priced lots on whidbey still. there might be some quirky stuff about them, like being on the end of a dead end road, having to drive far or the land having some protective covenants, but, that stuff is fine for me.

everything is expensive. it is a zoo.

seattle is a zoo. there is absolutely no way to afford a home here unless you are selling another, make 200k a year or it has been in your family for 30 years. if you can work remotely (i am a designer/writer/artist) , the island seems like a great place.

we have one of the most beautiful regions in the country, ans we all really need to be ecologically minded regarding growth, and pollutants, or, it is all going to be gone. this is why the island seems attractive. the rule about not subdividing 5 acre parcels is particularly appealing. at least you know there would never be a block of damn condos going up next door.

i have been up there 3 times now looking at places and land, and there is one which is in a great neighborhood, near coupeville, about 288 feet and hand built by a master carpenter (completely gorgeous and finely crafted unique cedar shake structure) but the land has some ecological covenants on it that a bank won't lend on (only 2 areas of the 5 acre lot are zoned for construction).

i was just digging around in the deep woods of this other parcel and got lost this weekend. i mean really lost! it was funny. it was this 7 foot tall thicket and soon i couldnt even tell which way was north. bringing a compass next time. this piece was really really attractive, except the 4 houses on the lane prior to arriving at the lot had completely logged and cleared most their plots and put in some damn ass ugly manufactured homes. and had like 5 cars in each of their yards up on blocks. not really so into seeing junkyards each day i came home. but living at the end of a dead end road sutis me fine. the less i see or hear when writing or working, the better. also, the lots around it hadnt all been built on. id like to know where the neighbors homes are, prior to building my own, so i dont wake up every morning staring out my window and into their dining room.

any more tips or tricks you find would be very helpful. i will post them too.

[tellous_design]

hey kristen

so, you said the county said a structure of 190+ counts as a residence?

and you can build under 200ft with no permit?

this is very cool!

you could build something yoursefl whcih then would count as a residence.

do you know if you build like 4 200 sq ft structures on a property, would they all be added together to come up with a square footage measurement on the property? i am just wondering because the mortgage broker guy i spoke with at 'first island' said banks would have trouble financing anything below 600 sq ft as a home loan if it ever went up for sale. they could potentially finance a buy while assessing your land to be 'land', but not as a home unless it was over 600 (his information anyhow).

i wonder how far apart little cabins would need to be in order for them to not need a building inspector. if a bunch of them were spaced at 5 foot intervals, and had overhead porch covering to allow moving between them all. i wonder if they would have a problem with this.

[Kristen]

No problem.  I've been on island for a while but I'm finally ready to build my own little place.

Initially, I had a dream.  Hee.  But then I realized this isn't 30+ years ago when you didn't even know there was a 'highway' nearby because there was nothing happening on it.  Those were the days for sure.  I'm sure native ancestors would laugh at us saying that...the cycle is never-ending.

So, I've decided to enjoy walking, biking and free bus service to the beautiful and fun opportunities - without myself paying to have those things on my own land.  Therefore, my dream has pared down to finding a little spot that's not near a busy road, utility site, heavy shade or loud noises.  It's still a dream, I know, but dreams are possible and I hold out hope.  I think it just takes a little patience and creativity (I'm really glad I've waited out the bubble!).

I highly recommend lots of exposure to all until one gets their bearings as to what feels right for them.  I've found what I consider tolerable and not, just due to consistent exposure to everything that pops on the market.  When I happen upon property I consider unattractive, I pass it up.  The gut never lies.

Confession:  I thought I wanted one particular location when I started looking, yet ended up wanting another location entirely.  Shocked myself but that came from getting my bearings once I got serious and started the daily online viewings/drives.  I'm pretty sure I know WAY too many roads on this island now, but it's helped tremendously with my perspective.

Keep on keeping on.

[Kristen]

I recommend calling the county and asking this general question...you're safe to ask because you don't own land here yet so they can't track you down.  Hahaha!!

hey kristen

so, you said the county said a structure of 190+ counts as a residence?

and you can build under 200ft with no permit?

this is very cool!

you could build something yoursefl whcih then would count as a residence.

do you know if you build like 4 200 sq ft structures on a property, would they all be added together to come up with a square footage measurement on the property? i am just wondering because the mortgage broker guy i spoke with at 'first island' said banks would have trouble financing anything below 600 sq ft as a home loan if it ever went up for sale. they could potentially finance a buy while assessing your land to be 'land', but not as a home unless it was over 600 (his information anyhow).

i wonder how far apart little cabins would need to be in order for them to not need a building inspector. if a bunch of them were spaced at 5 foot intervals, and had overhead porch covering to allow moving between them all. i wonder if they would have a problem with this.