Whack job arrested after threatening to murder US senator over health care

[Pox Eclipse]

Man Arrested For Threats Over Health Care

A man from Washington state has been arrested for allegedly threatening to kill Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., over her support of the health care overhaul.

...

Between March 22 and April 4, Wilson allegedly left at least 15 threatening and profanity-laden voicemails with Murray's office.

"It only takes one piece of lead," he allegedly said in one voicemail on March 22. "Kill the f***ing senator! I'll donate the lead. ... Now that you've passed your health-care bill, let the violence begin. ... We, the people, will not subside, succumb to socialism. ... You have awakened a sleeping giant."

...

The next day, employing a common refrain from opposition to the health care reform bill, Wilson allegedly suggested that in addition to "killing the bill" people should "Kill the f***ing Senator!"

"Kill the bill, kill the Senator too," he allegedly said. "I do believe that every one of you mother-f***ing socialist democratic progressive mother-f***ers need to be taken out."

...

"I do pack, and I will not blink when I'm confronted," he allegedly said in a recorded conversation with the FBI agent. "It's not a threat, it's a guarantee."

It is only a matter of time before one of these nuts slips past security and actually kills a Senator or Congressman.  The backlash against health care opponents will doom any anti-health care candidates in the fall;  they will all be tarred, fairly or unfairly, as encouraging this kind of maniacal opposition that always spills over into violence.  At the very least, they will be put in the position of apologizing for, and distancing themselves from, the nutbars that have been whipped into a frenzy by the likes of Palin, Beck and Limbaugh.

Maybe a Democrat will have to take one for the team, for the larger good.

[pagan]

Did he open fire when arrested? He claims to "pack" and "...will not blink when I'm confronted."

Since authorities arrested him it means they took him alive, which means he blinked. Not very credible. It's easy to talk a big walk, but difficult to walk when you're standing alone against an FBI SWAT team.

Agreed, eventually someone will walk the talk and I'm sure we'll see some new fancy piece of legislation that will rocket through congress in minutes and we'll collectively watch what few rights we have remaining go out the window.

Thank you, Charles Alan Wilson for giving our government yet another reason to pass legislation to protect itself from its citizens.

[fishing_guy]

There have been assassination plots/attempts/successes  since the time of the first government.  There are always those who choose not to play by societies rules and choose violence instead.

I don't see these nut jobs whipped into a frenzy by the above mentioned people.  If not this cause, then it would have been another.  Just ask how many threats they receive during a  typical year.

As seen across the country, the VAST majority are doing it the right way.  Assembly, marches, speeches, and in the end, by their vote.  It is done this way by both sides, and I have no problem with this method.  In fact, it is chilling to me when one side complains against these types of activities, all in the name of protecting against violent whackos.  That is when YOUR freedoms stand the greatest chance of being thrown out the window. 

Let the FBI/Secret Service/ATF figure out who the whackos are and deal with them the way we always have.  Arrest and our judicial system.  It has worked for the most part over the past 200+ years and has served us well.

[ScottA]

Let the FBI/Secret Service/ATF figure out who the whackos are and deal with them the way we always have.  Arrest and our judicial system.  It has worked for the most part over the past 200+ years and has served us well.

Unless it happens to be this nut job. Then the prez just orders him assasinated. That's right folks the prez can order you be killed without a trial. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36208306/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times

[fishing_guy]

The Imam lost all rights in my book Scott.

[ScottA]

What he may or may not have done is not the point. The point is all of us deserve due process. Once you eliminate that they can accuse anyone of anything with no proof what so ever and have you killed. No questions asked. First they do it to people who look like they deserve it then it will be anyone they don't like. If they can order him killed they can just as easily order him arrested and put on trial.

[pagan]

Scott,

Agreed. Regardless of how we feel about his politics, religion, or militancy, he's an American citizen and his government has ordered his death. No trial by jury, no legal representation, nothing. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"

Our government could just as easily order the killing of any environmental activist. On the "Why does land cost so much?" thread I posted a few guys who got long jail sentences for torching trucks, SUVs, and luxury homes. Nobody was killed or injured in these arsons, yet long sentences were handed down for simple property crimes. They've been labeled "eco-terrorists" by authorities and are treated as such. When do the trials stop, and the killings begin?

[NM_Shooter]

Due process does not apply.

He has every right at this point to request a trial, surrender and return to the United States. 

Consider this similar to a SWAT situation.  If a US citizen is threatening to throw a kid off a rooftop while demanding money, and is refusing surrender, do we wait to green light the shooter until due process is accomplished?

Why do you believe this situation is different?

[pagan]

NM-Shooter,

It's different because no law enforcement entity is going out to arrest him. Your hypothetical SWAT scenario has nothing to do with this discussion as he's not standing on a rooftop holding a baby demanding money or else.

Quote from the article:
"The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday."

Key words here are "...who is believed..." Where's the evidence? Oh yeah, it's a matter of national security. Just like the intelligence claiming Iraq had WMDs and was set to attack the United States at any minute. Our government is killing an American on a belief, and not on unequivocal proof, that's murder.

Let's say we get in an argument and you tell me someone aught to put a bullet in my head. As the argument escalates you even have a few of your friends stand by you and you tell me it's easy for someone to die. You're clearly threatening me, but nothing else. Later I hear from other people, I can't name them because it's a matter of personal security, that you're actively recruiting your friends to destroy my house and kill me. As I contemplate these reports it becomes clear that you're going to have me killed. Rather than wait for your friends, who are obviously only following your orders, I go to your house and kill you, thus eradicating the incentive your friends have for killing me and saving my life. Even though I honestly believed you were going to have me killed, I've got a difficult defense and I'm probably going to jail for murder.

This individual has been tried, convicted, and sentenced to death by a handful of men with no judicial process. This is not how our judicial system operates. Our government has authorized the murder of an American citizen.

[NM_Shooter]

Was that quote from a news agency or from the administration?

Are you saying that because a news agency says there is no proof, that there is no proof?

Why does it matter whether a terrorist / enemy combatant is a US citizen or not? 

Do you believe that this is in violation of international law? 

His geographic location places him outside of the jurisdiction of our legal process.  As a US citizen who has been "accused" of a heinous act, if he is innocent he should come forward and participate in your legal absolution. 

We don't go after those purely on talk.   If you think Saddam was not a WMD, there are probably a couple hundred thousand Kurds and Shi'ites who would disagree (closer to a million murdered total in the area by some counts) I find your logic odd (and sad) that it is the mechanism of genocide that is more important than the scale of the genocide itself. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_Iraq

[pagan]

Answered in order.

The quote was from the MSNBC article linked by Scott which is relying on information from intelligence and counterterrorism officials.

Nope. I'm saying I do not trust our government enough to have it authorize someone's death with no proof or due process.

As Americans we have rights protecting us from unwarranted government intrusion. It's not like he's going to be killed in combat operations fighting against our military, rather he'll be hunted down and killed.

Yup.

Apparently you feel an "accusation" is enough to warrant death, especially since he's not coming home to face the charges. My legal absolution...wow.

We invaded Iraq purely on talk. The so called evidence turned out to be fabricated, false or based on testimony from Iraqi dissidents who had vested interests in removing Saddam from power. Saddam was a man, not a WMD, and he did not kill millions all by himself. Neither did Stalin, Hitler, the Emperor of Japan, or any other megalomaniacal dictator in history. He did not, nor did he ever pose a threat to America.

Your logic appears to favor expediency at the cost of judicial revue and due process. Genocide has nothing to do with our discussion; we're talking about the targeted killing of an American.

[NM_Shooter]

Thank you for the responses...

One of the issues here is that we don't know to what extent evidence exists.  We probably can not know without compromising the safety of those in the field.  Is there a question as to whether or not he is an Al Qaeda operative?  I think that has been established.  If a person is a violent enemy of the US, I really don't care what his citizenship is.  He deserves no more mercy than Bin Laden. 

I understand the lack of trust.  Given what little data I've seen on this guy, my gut feel is that he is a very naughty boy.  I don't have access to all the data... I don't need access to all the data.  Knowing the sort of scrutiny that this sort of announcement brings, I would bet that the data is sound.  Nope....  I don't think accusation is enough. 

We do know that Saddam used chemical and biological weapons.  He was stockpiliig these WMD in the early 90's, and at one point threw out the UN inspectors (who could not find their butts with both hands).  Saddam told us he had these weapons.  Not finding them is not the same as proof that they did not exist.  Hundreds of thousands of corpses resulted from his efficiencies. 

A targetted killing of an American can be justified as righteously in a combat theater as well as a SWAT situation on our own soil. 

War time terrorists deserve no quarter. 

[pagan]

Thank you as well.

No, we don't know what evidence there is on this guy, and we probably never will. We are expected to sit back and allow "Big Brother" to protect us without questions. All we know about this guy is what the government has told us, and given our governments history of misleading us I question the accuracy and truth of the claims. What do we do about all of the radical Muslim clerics around the world espousing attacks on America? Should we kill all of them as well?

What do you think about the militia men recently arrested? They were planning to attack the government. Clearly they are/were enemies of the US, yet they were arrested and will be tried. Should they have simply been put down instead? Why are they shown quarter and not this Muslim?

Saddam was a particularly nasty fellow, to be sure. It's ironic that the chemical and biological weapons Saddam used on his own people were supplied by the US government. I've read so many conflicting accounts about the WMDs that I doubt we'll ever know if they existed. I have spoken with a few military members who were there and said the only things they saw were some old artillery rounds and a few broken up missiles. Nothing they saw was functional. That, of course, does not mean they never existed. What is at issue is did he have them just prior to the invasion and was he intending to use them on the US. That has never been proven, and by most accounts has been shown to be a fabrication by the Bush administration.

The problem with your argument is when a SWAT member kills a perpetrator the situation generally is concluded. Man holding hostages and threatening to kill them... SWAT sniper kills man...end of conflict. When this Muslim is killed it will only fuel greater hatred towards America and Americans as we usher him into his divine martyrdom.

We have picked up hundreds of radicals around the world since the International Global War on Religious Extremism, or whatever it's being called these days, began back in 2001. Why is this guy targeted for death? Wouldn't it make more sense to take him alive to discover what his plans were? Why is it better to have him dead? Could it be that we're looking at the scapegoat for the next false flag operation? Where's Glenn?

[NM_Shooter]

What do we do about all of the radical Muslim clerics around the world espousing attacks on America? Should we kill all of them as well?

No.  They don't all deserve attention.  The ones with teeth and the proven ability to make good on their promises.... Yes.  Oddly, the culture difference between us and the middle easterners is misplayed by the media.  Such as the whole "Death to xxx" thing.  They say "Death to xxx" to whatever is irritating them at the moment, whether it is the US, or a flat tire.  I won't support deadly force used against verbal only threats.  It has to have been backed up by action.   

What do you think about the militia men recently arrested? They were planning to attack the government. Clearly they are/were enemies of the US, yet they were arrested and will be tried. Should they have simply been put down instead? Why are they shown quarter and not this Muslim?

I think this is a very interesting situation.  Were these a bunch of kooks, or did they have violent and dangerous pasts?  I have no patience for these guys.  But if talk and plans were all they had then take them to the courts.  If they were in fact engaged in direct action against the US, and refused to come face their charges peacefully, then my sympathy for them wanes.  I have not forgotten the whole Ruby Ridge thing (or Waco).  Those were clearly screwed up.  Also... I am not for killing someone outright.  If they can be captured, and their threat removed without loss of life, then that is very much preferred. But  I don't believe saving the life of this Imam is worth the loss of a single US service person's life.

What is at issue is did he have them just prior to the invasion and was he intending to use them on the US. That has never been proven, and by most accounts has been shown to be a fabrication by the Bush administration.

Remember though... Saddam told the world that he had them and would use them on attacking forces.  Empowering Saddam in the first place was a huge mis-step.

When this Muslim is killed it will only fuel greater hatred towards America and Americans as we usher him into his divine martyrdom.

We are not going to negotiate with these folks to be our friends, or even to be tolerant.  Their very religion commands that they attempt to kill us.  This is more a religious issue than a political one.  If we ignore them, they hate us and attack us.  If we impose sanctions, they hate us and attack us.   We can not allow them to grow stronger.   

[glenn kangiser]

Hey Pagancelt, sorry I haven't been here much.  Work - work - work - Obama has made CHANGE in my life.....

I am now working full time and more.  Since the economy is so bad, I am running two of the steel companies shop crews in the field so they will not have to be laid off between fabrication jobs.

We have criminals running our government.  We cannot believe anything they say or that the mainstream media parrots for them.  Most of the rhetoric we hear about these made up threats are just scare tactics to keep the gullible scared and wanting the government to protect them from their latest bogeyman.  

Fake Bin Laden tapes anybody?   Three for $5.00 straight from the US government movie studios.  

They and their lies do not scare me into going along with their wanton murder of innocent civilians in the middle east.  I will not share in their blood letting for oil and power, or the destruction of the Constitution to forward the causes of the New World Order (ref GHWB speech).

Speaking of religious wars, our religious leaders were responsible for the Crusades, burning people at the stake, accusing people of witchcraft - evil eyes, stoning to death, etc. and killing them.  I see us as no less radical than the Muslims if we take the Bible to the full letter of the word.  Wipe out whole nations - burn cities down , kill all of the animals, men, women and children..... no - we are just as radical if we follow our historic Biblical examples that our religions base their teachings on. 

Demonize the Muslims to make them less than human so we can continue to drain the blood from them in various relatively defenseless preferably oil and resource rich nations.  That is what is up with our government criminals.  That is what the media is sensationalizing for them at the military, government, and NWO whim.

[Whitlock]

Hey Pagancelt, sorry I haven't been here much.  Work - work - work - Obama has made CHANGE in my life.....

I am now working full time and more.  Since the economy is so bad, I am running two of the steel companies shop crews in the field so they will not have to be laid off between fabrication jobs.

We have criminals running our government.  We cannot believe anything they say or that the mainstream media parrots for them.  Most of the rhetoric we hear about these made up threats are just scare tactics to keep the gullible scared and wanting the government to protect them from their latest bogeyman.  

Fake Bin Laden tapes anybody?   Three for $5.00 straight from the US government movie studios.  

They and their lies do not scare me into going along with their wanton murder of innocent civilians in the middle east.  I will not share in their blood letting for oil and power, or the destruction of the Constitution to forward the causes of the New World Order (ref GHWB speech).

Speaking of religious wars, our religious leaders were responsible for the Crusades, burning people at the stake, accusing people of witchcraft - evil eyes, stoning to death, etc. and killing them.  I see us as no less radical than the Muslims if we take the Bible to the full letter of the word.  Wipe out whole nations - burn cities down , kill all of the animals, men, women and children..... no - we are just as radical if we follow our historic Biblical examples that our religions base their teachings on. 

Demonize the Muslims to make them less than human so we can continue to drain the blood from them in various relatively defenseless preferably oil and resource rich nations.  That is what is up with our government criminals.  That is what the media is sensationalizing for them at the military, government, and NWO whim.

WOW I think you have been in the valley to long You need to stay home for a day or two and tear something up Well at least you got it all out in one post

[glenn kangiser]

I'm not done yet. 

I definitely do not agree with the Kenyan Born son of Africa,  in-elegible White House Resident authorizing the snuffing of anybody.

He will not even prove that he is eligible to hold office - he just keeps sidestepping the issue and using his puppets in the criminal "Supreme Court" to save his bacon....

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=138293

[Whitlock]

Well his own wife saying on the youtube video that Kenya is his home country should be enough

[glenn kangiser]

I certainly should think that she is a credible witness...

Direct links to her statement....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R627vej6SmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLDHDfPNBME

[pagan]

NM_Shooter,

The problem is we don't know when words will become action, and then it's too late and innocent people die. A cleric telling his followers to wage jihad against America is just as dangerous as the cleric who takes an active role in planning/orchestrating the attacks.

I don't think it's the Imam that's the threat to US service members, rather it's his followers that are the threat. I bet he'd beg for his life if confronted, just like that other coward Che Guevara. They're so willing to send other s out to fight, but prefer to remain behind in relative safety. It's potentially deadly whenever a violent criminal is apprehended, but I think justice is better served with him being arrested, tried, and if proven, convicted and sentenced to prison.

And now we know Saddam was blowing smoke out his butt. We invaded Iraq based on fabrications, lies, and Saddam's rhetoric. So know we're going to kill a man based on militant Islamic rhetoric and our government's word that it has proof he's a threat. Sorry, I'm still not buying into the line.

Here in lies the crux of the problem with radical Islam. The only way of true appeasement is to convert to their faith, but which one? The Sunnis hate and attack the Shia, who in turn hate and attack the Sunnis. They both hate the Kurds. Then you've got the Taliban. Whatever you do you're pretty much still going to be attacked by some militant radical Islamic faction. How do we prevent them from growing stronger?

[pagan]

Glenn,

Change you can count on, yeah baby. Glad to see you're still well and helping people remain employed. You're doing a better job than any elected official.

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks pc....

I'm here for a half hour eating break then driving to Hesperia 320 or so miles tonight.   It's a bummer but it's work - started at 5 this morning too.  Have fun.