What A Great Guy I Am!!!

[MountainDon]

For some time K has admired lever guns and I thought it was time she had her own. I was first thinking of a 22LR, maybe a Henry, maybe a Marlin. But she likes Big Booms too. "It's not a real gun unless it kicks". There's not much kick to my favorite 22LR cartridge, Wolf or SK subsonic loads.

So I found a Puma 92 in 454 Casull. That will make a pretty big boom and will also shoot my favorite handgun caliber, 45LC for a medium sized boom at lower cost.  Note it comes with a nice rubber recoil pad attached.





And if she isn't really pleased, well I've thought of getting one for over a year, and I'll get her something else.    

[StinkerBell]

Sounds like Love to me!

You are a great guy!

[MountainDon]

I've gift wrapped it... sorry no pictures. It looks like a rifle in a box. It's now also wrapped in  garbage bags in an attempt to disguise it on the trip up to the cabin and until Sunday.

It's nicely balanced and a little lighter than the Guide Gun which also shoots big fat bullets. I have a "thing" for fat bullets.  

[ScottA]

Thats a nice rig. 

[MountainDon]

I just found out our son bought her a DVD set of the old Rifleman TV series. K loved that show as a kid.    



Coordinated gifting without planning.   

[Virginia Gent]

Very nice!

Such a great guy

[bayview]

   Don't forget to use the Safety Cable Lock that is Included . . . 

[Yonderosa]

Looking forward to the range report.  Do you reload?

[Squirl]

She is a lucky woman to have a guy that listens.  You are lucky to have a woman that likes practical gifts more than shiny baubles.
I just hope she doesn't read your posts.

[peternap]

[Yonderosa]

Ought to be plenty good for turning those pesky Elk into backstraps and other delectables.   

Do you reload?

[poppy]

Very nice; and you are indeed a nice guy. 

Just ordered a limited edition Henry 22;  which may some day end up with my grandson who just happens to be named Henry.

And that Puma again makes me think that I need/want something more powerful than the Winchester 30-30 sitting in the safe.

[Don_P]

Nice, I liked The Rifleman too. We were talking about getting a 22 plinker the other day, big bullets get spendy, I like slender but with high octane. A lever action would be fun and alot more boom than my last lever action, it had Daisy on it.

[Windpower]

I think the 454  is a little light duty for elk especially at range

BUT

having said that, here is a story I read recently about the .454 Casull

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/survival/animal-attacks/2009/08/charging-grizzly-killed-alaska?photo=0

Brush, a veteran salmon fishing guide from the town of Soldotna, was walking his dogs on a rare day off from work. On his hip was a large handgun, a  Ruger chambered for the powerful .454 Casull cartridge. Brown bears are a constant presence in Brush's neighborhood, and many residents feel the largely-unhunted animals have little fear of man.



Because of many bear-related incidents in this area, Brush always has brown bears on his mind...even when walking a well-maintained road. On just such a road, less than 500 yards from his house, Brush stopped when he heard a twig snap behind him. Turning his head toward the sound, Brush saw a monstrous brown bear charging toward him. "There was no warning," he stresses. "None of the classic teeth-popping or woofing, raising up on hind legs, or bluff-charging that you read about. When I spotted him he was within 15 yards,  his head down and his ears pinned back. He was coming like a freight train...in total chase-mode."



Brush instinctively back-pedaled to avoid the charge, drawing the Ruger from its holster. "I fired from the hip as he closed the distance," Brush recalls. "I know I missed the first shot, but I clearly hit him after that. I believe I fired four or five shots. "



Brush finally fell on his back on the edge of the road. Miraculously, the bear collapsed a mere five feet from his boot soles, leaving claw marks in the road where Brush had—only seconds before—been standing. The bear was moaning, his huge head still moving, as Brush aimed the Ruger to fire a finishing shot. "By then my gun had jammed," Greg says. "I frantically called my wife on my cell phone and told her to bring a rifle. When she arrived I finished the bear."







Greg had to file a Defense of Life or Property (DLP) report after the incident. Biologists determined that the bear, a boar that measured 9' 6" from nose to tail (10' 6" from paw to paw), was between 15 and 20 years old and weighed between 900 and 1,000 pounds--and was underweight by an estimated 400 pounds. "His teeth were just worn out, and you could see his ribs through his hide," Brush says. "Normally they are eating mainly salmon, moose calves, or carrion right now as they put on fat for the winter. This bear had grass in his molars, a sure sign he was starving to death. He would not have survived the winter."




Brush says the boar's head was huge and heavy. "He had many scars and wounds, indicating he may have been run off by other bears. Two biologists and two veteran bear guides have told me that this was a predatory charge. There was no carcass nearby that he was defending and, obviously, no cubs to protect. Had I not been able to kill him, he'd have killed and likely eaten me."

[Sassy]

Wow, can't believe how big those claws are!  The bear is better off, being that it was starving & had no teeth - it probably was already suffering & it would have been even worse during the winter.

[StinkerBell]

looks like a Kodiak Bear.

[OlJarhead]

.454 Casull has taken all big game in North America successfully -- from a hand gun.

The Rifle adds 20% velocity to the round which 'may' increase the killing power of a given load -- however if 300 to 360 grains of hard cast lead going 2000 feet per second isn't big enough....

[Windpower]

The 357 can say the same thing about taking North American game

but IMO it is a stunt



the 454 has about the same muzzel energy as a 30-30

although the energy of a 30-30 bullet is much better at 150 yards than the fat 45 slug will provide

and no, I would't hunt elk with a 30-30 either -- unless I was forced by circumstances to do it

[OlJarhead]

The 357 can say the same thing about taking North American game

but IMO it is a stunt



the 454 has about the same muzzel energy as a 30-30

although the energy of a 30-30 bullet is much better at 150 yards than the fat 45 slug will provide

and no, I would't hunt elk with a 30-30 either -- unless I was forced by circumstances to do it

Huh?  I can show the .45COLT loaded properly with nearly TWICE the killing power of a 30-30 at 100 yards.  Perhaps you're looking at energy alone and not accounting for diameter of the wound channel, penetration, dissipation of energy and more?

http://www.firearmexpertwitness.com/customguns/calcnrg.html
Stick in a 360 grain bullet at 2000fps and then a 150 grain bullet at 2000 fps and you tell me which one packs more wallop.

The .454 can give 3100 lbs of force at the muzzle EASILY while the 30-30 only barely makes 1400ish.....

I'm sorry but you simply cannot make that statement with this kind of math.

In fact the 150 grain bullet traveling at 3000 fps is only CLOSE to the .454 360 grain bullet and the 170 grain bullet has to go nearly as fast.

The 7MM with 170 grain bullet packs the same power as the .454 with a 360 at the muzzle.

No comparison between the feeble 30-30 and the rather powerful .454 Casull.

Let's go deeper....
http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/-strse-1/30-dsh-30-WIN-170-Grain/Detail.bok
This is good stuff -- the best some would argue...and at 100 yards (the range most game is taken at I'd argue) 1484lbs/ft for 30-30 170's grains and 1983...

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/-strse-33/454-Casull-360-Grain/Detail.bok
This bullet registers a walloping 1450fps out of a PISTOL -- add 20% and you get 1740fps out of the Puma.

The muzzle energy of the 30-30 on the Grizzly site shows 1991 lbs/ft vs. the .454 at an bear killing 2419 lbs/ft on the calculator...I still have to find a 100 yard reference but for the not faint at heart read this:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

I was sitting on my duff wondering why all of a sudden the ants were finding certain parts of my anatomy so fascinating...when I heard him coming and grunting and complaining, like his boss gave him a hard time at work. Ants forgotten, I lifted the Win/94 in 45 long Colt....300 grain WFN (wide flat nose) loaded to about 1500+ fps giving around a 1500 ft.lbs.or less of muzzle punch. He broke cover at 65 long paces...I was even with his chest, so I put it there...it traversed his entire body and exited after going thru his left hip joint (back leg joint socket). Kelly Brost owner of Cast Performance Bullets with his wife, the other half of the ownership....makes them right. It is an art to get the right lead/tin/antimony/ mix to have cast bullets penetrate so well at such velocities, and yet still expand at lower velocities....but obviously it is an art Kelly knows well.

The .454 isn't king don't get me wrong but I'll take mine anywhere in North America and know that with it's 8-10 rounds (depending on loads) it can take any game that might want to eat me, or I might want to eat -- and I tend to carry only .45COLT loads that I've worked up

Cheers
Erik

[OlJarhead]

A 30-30 with a 170 gr bullet at 2200 FPS gives a level of power ranking at KS 53.4... ahh yes dear reader, the 44 mag from a long gun really does have more power at 100 yards than a 30-30/170 commercial load. Of course the 44 mag/275 gr. load above from a rifle, at basically the same velocity as the 275 gr./45 long Colt from a rifle has the same killing level potential as the 45 long Colt. There are difficulties with all measuring methods of bullet energy and killing ability since so much more is involved than just velocity and weight...but this works for me when we are comparing the same bullet shape/content and construct with changes in weight or velocity.

The neat thing about this method is you can take the down range velocities all the way out to your longest range and compare them with the down range velocities of other rounds, calibers and see the changes compared to each other. The 45 long Colt at 100 yards has slowed to 1600 FPS and the killing level has dropped to almost KS of 63 from 79. Where the 30-30 load has dropped to 1930FPS to a KS 46 from 53.4.....that should make a few yell 'foul...can't be', but it is! And from my use of these 45 loads in the field for years on large game....I can tell you it is.....! As many gunwriters have stated over the years, a 44 mag or heavy loaded 45 long Colt fired from a rifle is more powerful than a 30-30 at 100 yards....actually they are more powerful than the great 30-30, at a lot further than 100 yards.....

From that same page....it's pretty certain the .45COLT will take darn near any game in NA but the .454 will.  Period.

[Windpower]

energy is energy

everyhing else is crap


you cannot argue with physics

the math does not favor fat slow rounds

especially at distance

I have seen 150 pound whitetail shot fairly through the boiler room with a 300 mag walk away

a 300 mag is orders of magnitude beyond 454

it is about taking the life of a creature quickly and humanely

a 454 is not the tool of choice for a 600 pound critter period

and as Forrest Gump would say "that is all I got to say about that"

[ScottA]

What's the term I'm looking for?  Oh yeah...BS. I've shot deer with a pistol and had them drop dead within a 100 feet.

[OlJarhead]

energy is energy

everyhing else is crap

I'm sorry I guess I'm confused my friend.  If the .454 produces more energy then the 30-30 and indeed it takes a 7MM Magnum to get that kind of energy in a typical hunting rifle at the same range then what am I missing?

Shot placement is of course paramount in all cases and I don't disagree with that.  In fact, the .22 LR is popular for putting down cows for buchering -- why?  A well placed shot by an experienced hand can get the job done.  But I wouldn't do it myself with one.

Anyway, the .454 has the power in spades out to 100 yards which is typical hunting range and indeed displays excellent energy out to 150 yards.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast480rugera.htm
Notice the claim here that the .480 is only 80% of the .454 Casull...also note the ranges and energy they are discussing -- 100 yards and how much?

Now add 20% -- that's TWENTY PERCENT to the velocity which doing simple math pushes the energy further up the scale NOT LOWER...so the Puma shooting .454 is like putting this already power house cartridge on steroids.

But wait, there's more...


Don't take my word for it, take CORBON's -- after all they oughtta know
http://atlantisarms.com/History/CorBon/corbon.htm

454 Casull 360gr Penetrator
Range    0    50    100    125    150    175    200    yards
Velocity    1500    1387    1286    1241    1200    1161    1126    fps
Energy    1800    1640    1323    1231    1150    1077    1014    ft/lb
Path    -0.50    2.01    0.00    -2.93    -7.27    -13.12    -20.58    in

The mighty 454 Casull was envisioned by Dick Casull over 40 years ago. His desires for the ultimate power in a pistol capable of handling pressures in excess of all the common rifle cartridges lead directly to the superb Freedom Arms Single Action revolver. CorBon s heavy bullet 454 Casull loads exceed the power delivered by the legendary buffalo guns of old.

CorBon loads six different powerhouse loads for this highly popular cartridge. Astute big game hunters choose the bonded-core bullets in either the 265gr or 285gr loads for their flat trajectory and excellent stopping power. The 300gr Jacketed Soft Point is the pick for closer game in heavy brush where the flat trajectory is not mandatory.

For very large and dangerous game CorBon offers three heavyweight loads. The 320gr and the 360gr Penetrator bullets have been used around the world on everything that can be taken with a handgun. The hallmark of these loads is unparalleled penetration combined with bone smashing power.

The 454Casull is a cartridge that is here to stay. Other manufacturers are making guns to handle the power and CorBon has the power demanded.

[OlJarhead]

Let me get this straight -- 200 yards and I've got over 1100 foot pounds of energy out of a 7 1/2 inch barrelled PISTOL and I can bump that by around 20% with the rifle?

There is no large game in NA that cannot be taken with the .454 Casull safely, efficiently and humanely.

Now, I won't argue that the .45-70 isn't a good load, or that the stuff in the .400+ range in rifles isn't powerful but what are you saying about needing a bigger caliber?

Do you mean a .475 H&H or something?  They are almost too much to bear in the shoulder and yes they produce energy on a scale that is far superior then the .454 but you tried to compare it to the 30-30 and that's flat wrong.

[MountainDon]

Oh boy! Take five days off and this place can get exciting!

We (k, our son and I) had a little birthday celebration up at the cabin Friday night. Dinner, brownies to die for and the gifting. I had K close her eyes and placed the wrapped package on her lap. Right away she exclaimed, "A rifle?" "My own rifle?!" Jason told her to open the package and stop asking questions.. She did and the word "cool" was repeated about 5 - 6 times. K also said "This is the best birthday ever", or maybe it was "This is the best birthday gift ever". In the excitement I forget which. She went on to say how much she appreciated it, that she always loved lever guns...

So, the gift was received better than I even had hoped for.  

Saturday we lit a few fires to burn off more slash. Then we got out the gun rest and the targets. Except I forgot to bring more targets that could be seen without a scope.    I lieu of printed paper targets I stapled a paper plate to the fiber backboard. K had first honors. We began with some relatively mild 45LC 800 fps, 250 gr. loads. She nailed the plate right out of the box.  



That's an 8 inch plate.  I had a turn next and I never bothered to take a photo as it was not worth it.  

Next were some hotter 45LC loads; 1300 fps, 335 gr. After adjusting the elevation she was shooting bang on again.      

Finally we got around to some 454's. 1600 fps, 335 gr. OOOOh! That made a BIG Bang! And it had some real kick! K favored the middle loads (hot 45LC) to the 454 though.    It is a good thing the Puma came with a rubber recoil pad. It's not as shoulder punishing as the 45-70 can be, but is quite satisfying.  

We finished off the days shooting with each of us taking turns with our son's new AR15, M4 look alike. It was a lot of fun.  Then we got back to schlepping trash wood to the burn piles.


The 45LC's were reloads, the 454's were Cor-Bon; reloaded 454's will come in the future.