Author Topic: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)  (Read 908305 times)

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Offline Jens

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #150 on: November 21, 2009, 03:52:43 PM »
seems to me like the weight of the ledger is going to be supported by the jack stud in either case.  Judging by the top of the ladder, the window is about 2.5' wide?  I am no engineer, but I think that your header will be up to the job at hand.  Ledger is notched into the studs and sitting on osp shim on top of header, right?
just spent a few days building a website, and didn't know that it could be so physically taxing to sit and do nothing all day!

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #151 on: November 21, 2009, 08:17:12 PM »
seems to me like the weight of the ledger is going to be supported by the jack stud in either case.  Judging by the top of the ladder, the window is about 2.5' wide?  I am no engineer, but I think that your header will be up to the job at hand.  Ledger is notched into the studs and sitting on osp shim on top of header, right?

The window on this side is 4 feet wide so I added an additional header (double 2x6) with the OSB shim to help carry the load.  I figured the weight of the wall was supported by the 2x12 header and this might work but after some thought and Don's posts I've decided to yank that one out and put in a 2x10x8 through the next king stud (notched in of course).  That way I can be sure it will take the weight :)  I also bought another 2x10x8 for the other side to notch it one more stud also.

My generator quit today so we couldn't get the loft finished.  Instead we dropped off another $300 of lumber, pushed all the water off the tarp and tightened it a little, secured the site and headed home.

I'll service the gen before Thanksgiving weekend and we'll go back with an all hands crew (my two sons and soon to be son-in-law) to finish the loft and frame and sheet the roof.

I've decided to bring up some big lights too since our biggest issue is the lack of light.  If we start at 9am (which means below freezing) we can work to at least 3 without lights.  By 3:30 we had better be cleaning up though!  It was getting dark by 5PM last weekend so I'm guessing full dark will be around 4:30 next weekend -- makes for a short day but I do have 3 big halogen work lights and the gen should run those fine. 

That and a big fire and heat in the tent trailer and I think we'll do fine :)

By the way, for those interested I'm running very close to my goal of framing and sheeting the structure for $3000 or less.  I'm actually at $3300 right now but have spent more on tools, nails and a ladder which wasn't accounted for.

Still I'm happy with that!

We've gotten the stove and still need windows and a door, the roof (tin) as well as siding, wiring, plumbing, bath, kitchen and railings plus a lot of other things...my hope however is to complete the whole thing for around $10k or less :)  Wish me luck!

Now...to drum up another $7k...hmmmmm

hehe

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #152 on: November 21, 2009, 08:43:04 PM »

Some critters were running around chasing the deer off it seems ;)

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #153 on: November 21, 2009, 08:44:10 PM »

Spike buck was coming around...this is the 2nd or 3rd buck the camera has seen.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #154 on: November 23, 2009, 10:05:21 AM »
Heading off this weekend (after eating loads of Turkey) to try to get this roof on!  With luck we can at least get things sorted well enough to withstand a foot of snow (which is coming I fear).


Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #155 on: November 27, 2009, 09:20:57 AM »
20 degrees at night -- so the Tent Trailer will be a little on the cool side at night (we can take it) -- but mostly clear by the looks of it so it's a go!

We're off with extra lights and another body to try to get the loft done and the roof framed and at least partly sheeted!

With me luck!

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #156 on: November 27, 2009, 10:05:36 AM »
Stay warm   :)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #157 on: November 30, 2009, 07:57:12 AM »
Friday night we framed the big loft -- the big halogen lights made a HUGE difference!  It's so dark there in the winter that with these lights we finally did work after 5pm :)  In fact we worked until 9:30pm on Friday (no sales for us).

This picture was from the ground -- yes the blocking in the floor is crooked *snicker*.  I was in a hurry (you never should be) and didn't think to snap a line until I realized we were crooked -- hehe.,..ahhh well, builds character!

The 'big loft'


Looking down from the loft

« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 07:39:46 PM by OlJarhead »

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #158 on: November 30, 2009, 08:04:57 AM »

Finally started framing the roof.  I'd goofed on the first set of rafters and cut the birdsmouth above the line it was supposed to be below (DOH!)  d* d* ??? but eventually got it sorted and began getting the job done.

One note:  I did have to adjust the beam height a little as well in order to get 1" of space above it.  Then decided 1 1/4" was even better...(oh wait, that's what it ended up at after fixing the birdsmouth and I decided to leave it *chuckle*)


It's 5PM Sunday and you smashed your left thumb full force with a 22 ounce framing hammer (on the side of the thumb), your knuckle is bleeding and the dust is making your eyes tear up...what more could you want in life???

We worked late Saturday (after a 2 1/2 hour run to Home Depot -it takes that long to get there and back) and then got a very early start Sunday but it just wasn't enough to get the roof framed and partially sheeted :(  We had to stop 2 rafter sets shy of the main roof framing, no lookouts and still needing collar ties, blocking and more!  Ahhhhhhhhh  :P d*


Put on the tarp and used some 1x4's to make temporary collar ties and tied everything down -- and began praying that the heavens wouldn't open up for a couple more weeks!!!!


Blood, sweat, tears and a smashed knuckle but we're starting to feel like the end is near (for this year anyway)!  All we need to do is finish the outer shell well enough to make it a few months without much work -- here's hoping!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 07:41:05 PM by OlJarhead »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #159 on: November 30, 2009, 10:30:41 AM »

Finally started framing the roof.  I'd goofed on the first set of rafters and cut the birdsmouth above the line it was supposed to be below

That's why we cut a test pair and see how they work.  ;)  I had to make one set of adjustments on mine too.

We'll all cross our fingers and say a prayer for you regarding the weather/snow. I betcha it was nice to see those rafters up at last.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #160 on: November 30, 2009, 10:49:27 AM »

Finally started framing the roof.  I'd goofed on the first set of rafters and cut the birdsmouth above the line it was supposed to be below

That's why we cut a test pair and see how they work.  ;)  I had to make one set of adjustments on mine too.

We'll all cross our fingers and say a prayer for you regarding the weather/snow. I betcha it was nice to see those rafters up at last.

You bet!

The funny thing is that I finally took John's advice (I'm a little slow at times) and laid them out on the floor of the cabin...that is what showed me the mistake!

It felt so great to get the rafters up!  But I also need to thank you and others :)

For one:  I fixed the small loft ledgers to your recommendations :)  Thanks!  It felt a lot better doing that and then proceeding.

For two:  the loft floor feels very strong!  With 4 of us up there (I'm 260lbs, Josh is 210 and Kurt and James make another 320lbs or so) it didn't move at all!  A couple creeks in the middle when I walk through so there is a little movement but overall very sturdy :)  I'm very happy!

I'm also confident the 2x6 catwalk will be fine too :)  it's a 7 foot span and I made a temp one and it's plenty strong (it occurred to me the floor was made with 2x6" over a 9 foot span so DUH it will be fine at 7 feet!

There is a lot more I'm sure (ridge beam talk, ties, and more)...but all in all we're so stinking close!

The toughest part will be sheeting and felting the roof but we can do it and we're a weekend away from that stage!!!!!

I am so stoked :)

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #161 on: November 30, 2009, 02:12:36 PM »
One question:

When putting on the fascia 2x6 should it be installed 1/2"-3/4" below the rafter top so the sheeting covers it?  Can't the sheeting be overhung that far (about 1 1/2") and the fascia be installed later?  Like in the spring.

Thanks

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #162 on: November 30, 2009, 02:22:49 PM »
Considering your time crunch I'd say your priority would be getting the roof sheathing and the building paper on before worrying about the fascia. As long as your overhang the sheathing enough you could apply the fascia later. Having the fascia in place before doing the roofing though, gives a better edge to nail the drip edge and  building paper/wrap to.

I will admit to being in a time crunch last year too and I left the fascia until this spring, months after the roofing was completed.  :-[
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #163 on: November 30, 2009, 02:26:50 PM »
Considering your time crunch I'd say your priority would be getting the roof sheathing and the building paper on before worrying about the fascia. As long as your overhang the sheathing enough you could apply the fascia later. Having the fascia in place before doing the roofing though, gives a better edge to nail the drip edge and  building paper/wrap to.

I will admit to being in a time crunch last year too and I left the fascia until this spring, months after the roofing was completed.  :-[

Thanks Don,

That is what I was thinking.  So THANKS!  :)  I'll ignore the fascia and get the sheeting on as soon as I finished the rafters, lookouts and the sheeting and collar ties and and and and....geez I need more time!

And a new Thumb!

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #164 on: November 30, 2009, 03:20:16 PM »
Hurricane ties:  one thing I decided to do on my end rafters (and maybe won't really help in any way but I thought it might) was to put the hurricane ties on the wall top and slide them into the rafter since I could not install any other way (normally you mount them on the wall and the tabs that the rafter fits in extend up into the rafter).  This allowed you to use joist nails to secure the rafter into the hurricane tie AFTER it's been toe nailed in place.  Of course since you used 10d or 16d nails to toe nail the rafter in this is probably not needed anyway but with the birdsmouth cut in I couldn't see any way to use the ties becuase they would have to be installed on the sheeting in places where there is no stud (24" centers on the rafters and 16" centers on the walls) and the birdsmouth makes the rafter fit lower on the walls (the ties are probably meant for trusses)...but anyway I did get one 10d joist nail into each side in addition to the toe nailing and the tie is secured to the top of the wall.  If nothing else it will provide some sideload protection -- and the area I'm in doesn't get much wind so I doubt it would matter.

Anyway that's something I have been trying but only on the outside rafters so far.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #165 on: December 01, 2009, 11:51:23 AM »
Just ran out and checked my old Jeep battery (got a new one) and after running the 12v pump on our well for about two hours and then sitting in cold weather for a couple days it's still at 12.7vdc.  :)  [cool]

I'm thinking that while it was starting to lose cranking amps and didn't like starting the jeep as easily anymore (and that's partly why I replaced it -- really I needed a stronger battery becuase of the winch and the need to power a trailer from time to time -- or the camper etc which this battery didn't do well and died in one night) it will power the well for several hours I'm sure.  I need to check the draw so I will bring my amp clamp this next trip as well as my multimeter.

Once I know what the draw is on my well and on the camper (something else I've wanted to check) and the tent trailer with lights on and heater running I should have a very good idea of the kind of power I need and recharging power I'll need :)

Having that I can start seriously looking at solar panels when I'm not up there trying to get the roof done! ( d*)

But I'm stoked for now :)

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #166 on: December 01, 2009, 12:13:47 PM »
I'm thinking of trying to get back this weekend to try to get the last rafters done and maybe the lookouts.  Then we could get a row of sheeting up and felt it :)  ANd put plastic on the gabled ends and felt the walls....it's somethign to consider anyway :)

Maybe do a window or two and a door while I'm at it -- oh wait, I said ONE WEEKEND right?  DOH!

I need to remember to get a couple pounds of joist nails, some 2x6 joist hangers, more lumber (did I mention to plan for more?  Probably not and since I don't listen to my own advice much less others I'll mention it again here just in case I do actually listen at some point -- get more)....

We bought a Kerosene heater last trip (smart move) since it's been ini the 20's a lot when there and it helps keep the cabin a little warmer (under the loft anyway) and at least makes you think it's not freezing :)

So, if I can just get back and do some sheeting and felting (without one thumb) we might yet survive the winter :)

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #167 on: December 01, 2009, 12:24:30 PM »

Having that I can start seriously looking at solar panels when I'm not up there trying to get the roof done! ( d*)


You have the whole winter to plan and think and re-plan. Don't make any sudden moves.  ;D  Starting a new topic, if you want, so all your thoughts, questions and answers can be easily referenced might be an idea.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #168 on: December 01, 2009, 01:06:38 PM »

Having that I can start seriously looking at solar panels when I'm not up there trying to get the roof done! ( d*)


You have the whole winter to plan and think and re-plan. Don't make any sudden moves.  ;D  Starting a new topic, if you want, so all your thoughts, questions and answers can be easily referenced might be an idea.

My main focus is the roof and making things dry before it's too late...then while I've got time I want to get set up so I can recharge the batteries without a generator. 

I'm just like that though -- 100 miles an hour.....darn Marines ;)  d*

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #169 on: December 02, 2009, 10:31:05 AM »
Lots going on but on a side note I've decided to insulate my tent trailer on the next trip.  The temps are hitting in the teens at night and are threatoning to get much cooler.  So in order to have a place to get warm and to stay warm at night and to assist in the heating of the place and reduction of propane required I've decided to pick up some 1" foam insulation for the pullouts (I can install the insulation using velcro under the floor between the ribs and probably hold it in with some bungies as well), some flexible insulation (Astro Foil maybe) in the windows (unzip the windows, install the foil insulation and zip the windows back up) and then install some 1" under the floor as well.

I also though about trying to find a farmer willing to sell some bails of hay nearby becuase I could take those and stack under the pull outs too and around the main body to add some insulation that way.

This leaves the tent pup-ups and the roof.  I figure the roof can be done with 1" foam held on with bungies but the pop-ups might be a bit tricky.  I'm thinking perhaps just a tarp over those held down by rocks on the roof and bungies.

The idea is to reduce heating needs and keep things a little warmer throughout the cold nights.  If the heat aint running she can get cold enough to freeze the water in the back of the drip coffee pop in a couple hours!

Anyone else had to do something like this?
Erik

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Offline csiebert

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #170 on: December 02, 2009, 12:15:16 PM »
If you stack up hay bails, put rock salt between layers.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #171 on: December 02, 2009, 01:03:43 PM »
One second on that. 2x6 rafters aren't deep enough for a ventilation space (1" recommended I think) and the R19, without furring out the 2x6 or some other plan.  ???

BTW, I really don't understand why all the stores carry R19 and sell it to folks like ourselves who have built with 2x6 studs. A 2x6 = 5 1/2 inches, right? The R19 that I see is all rated to be 6 1/4 inches thick.  When compressed into a 5 1/2 inch space it becomes R18.

From Owens-Corning



The R21 which would be ideal is available locally here, but only from insulation installers who will only sell it with installation (but wanted a fortune to go up to the mountains) , or in minimum quantities that are too large for a simple cabin like mine.  d*


Here in NY State, the code says my cathedral ceiling would have to be R-49 !  I hope they don't make me do that once I start building.  But still, I figure I'll have to go to 2x12 rafters for the <11-foot span ceilings even though 2x10's would do, just to be able to use that R-38C (with "C" standing for Cathedral, providing the venting space).  But of course, can't find R-38C anywhere around here anyway!

Maybe I can find a local builder who buys in bulk and get him to seel me some or something like that.

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #172 on: December 02, 2009, 01:46:02 PM »
LittleValley, I had a look at that document. It says ceiling. Frequently cathedral ceilings receive a reduced requirement.

For example when I run ResCheck on our cabin it comes out at 5.5% better than the requirements when checked with a conventional flat ceiling, but 7.1% better when run with a cathedral ceiling with same R-value.

You might be able to use ResCheck energy code compliance software in the design. It's pretty cool. Here in NM they want the plan specs to be run through ResCheck and submitted with the pass/fail document it can produce. That can speed up the approval process. If your inspection department uses ResCheck it is possible to do some horse trading with different values here and there to achieve a pass.

There is a link to ResCheck here.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 02:00:55 PM by MountainDon »
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #173 on: December 02, 2009, 02:10:15 PM »
Thanks Don.  I was thinking about checking out ResCheck.  I think I'll also run into the problem with loss through the windows.  I'd like a lot of windows (if I just wanted to look at the inside of a cabin, I could build it in my backyard rather than an hour away out in the country  :) ) and I understand that is really going to cut down the rescheck score, even with low-U glass.

But I won't know until I try.

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #174 on: December 02, 2009, 02:14:34 PM »
When I ran it I ended up buying better windows than we originally wanted to buy ($$cost), but it allowed us to use a 6x4 ft and a 5x4 ft for the views.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

 

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