OFF GRID POWER; various thoughts on...

[glenn kangiser]

Maybe 87 inches for the year... About double our normal.  Dave will have to buy more water storage tanks to keep it all. 

[Dave Sparks]

Nah, 87 inches season to date!  Glen and I would be building docks if that was in a day!

I need more tanks at 15 inches of rain. Got to test that two years ago. The key to being in the cat-bird seat for most anyone harvesting rain is getting that inch in May. We usually do but....

It can be a pain trying to stay topped off with some room to capture until that last rain in May.

[glenn kangiser]

Nice thing to think- If we had to build docks, we would be a couple of very few inhabitants in California.    ....... on the other hand..

If the flatlanders were able to live through it, they'd be climbing these mountains like rats abandoning a sinking ship.... yep, 87 inches for the year is enough for me. 

[Dave Sparks]

Don,

Hang tuff with the fire! Did you see the simplyphi batteries in the Wind Sun Store. Still pricey but 24V option is there.

[glenn kangiser]

I'm still having great service from my road kill, chopped up , bypassed, recharged used forklift battery... the one my brother found along the road.  It gets a bit short in the winter when I have to kick the generator in once in a while as usual, but never a problem when there is plenty of sun.   It holds well overnight with plenty to spare.

We are not especially careful about power either.   

[MountainDon]

Don,
Did you see the simplyphi batteries in the Wind Sun Store. Still pricey but 24V option is there.

No I had not seen those. Thanks for pointing them out. Maybe time next year or the year after. The golf cart batteries still work quite well.    Not bad at all for batteries that were made June '09.

I see those Simplyphi batteries are made in California too.

[Dave Sparks]

I believe the  Simphi cells are Chinese. I was hoping to get them to let Schneider Solar or Outback Power get access to the BMS and extract internal Soc, current in/out and State of life but not getting much interest from them.

It is very nice to know how much is in the bank after an all night run of cooling and the 10 KWH LG Chem is perfect for us.

Knowing State of Life really makes the unknown a much more useful and accurate tool for planning. I expect these to last 15 years or more from the data I have seen. 

100F + today, again... drink some water with the Beer and Limes Glen

[DaveOrr]

Well they sure aren't giving them away!!!!
The 3.4 is $5,400 Canadian!!!!!   

[Dave Sparks]

It all will come down but the early adopters need to pay in first

[glenn kangiser]

Were using lemons Dave but missing the beer....makes me fall asleep. 

Lemons sliced and steeped in hot water with the peel, keep the old blood pressure down though.

[OlJarhead]

Posted about this in my cabin build but thought to ask here":


What are your thoughts about putting the inverter, and possibly the charge controllers inside the cabin vs in the porch with the batteries?

I can order more flexible cables to make that happen and am thinking it might be a good way to get the electronics away from the batteries though it poses some issues (like not being able to turn on power until I am inside the cabin vs just entering the porch and flicking it on.

[OlJarhead]

https://www.delcity.net/store/100A-MiniBus-Common/p_807936.h_807937
What do you think of using a bus like this to provide 12vdc power to multiple devices?  I have a 24v to 12v converter that I use to power a 12v ceiling fan, some 12v fans in the composter room and my car stereo.  Today I just wire nut everything to the output (12v) on the converter but I'm looking for a clean way to provide power and thought that I could two of these to provide + and - connections to each device.

With two buses I could land the fans etc on each buss and then provide the power connections to the buss frm the converter.  Should be a cleaner way to do this and allow me some more connections.

Thoughts?  Any suggestions?  Truth is I was looking for a toggle gang switch I could provide power to on one side and then multiple toggles for each item (so I could then just turn them on or off).

[MountainDon]

What are your thoughts about putting the inverter, and possibly the charge controllers inside the cabin vs in the porch with the batteries?

Electronics last longer when subjected to less extreme temperature shifts and fewer of them. So, inside where it is warmer and more constant is probably better. Sometimes there are other factors in play that make having either outside easier/better/convenient....   Just watch the wire sizing

[MountainDon]

What do you think of using a bus like this to provide 12vdc power to multiple devices?

A buss in a box makes adding and troubleshooting nicer / easier and looks better. Maybe even safer rather than having wire nutted connections scattered all over.  A fuse or DC breaker box with positive and negative buss bars would be the ultimate DC distribution. I've seen some BlueSea products that look good.

[OlJarhead]

Was looking at some blue sea stuff today.  Not sure I want the LED's but otherwise they look nicely put together and are likely the choice I plan to make.

[MountainDon]

LED's use almost no power. The idle or standby power consumption of the rest of the electronics use vastly larger amounts. Even bright indicator, pilot light, LED's use maybe 20 - 25 mA. 

[DaveOrr]

https://www.delcity.net/store/100A-MiniBus-Common/p_807936.h_807937
What do you think of using a bus like this to provide 12vdc power to multiple devices?  I have a 24v to 12v converter that I use to power a 12v ceiling fan, some 12v fans in the composter room and my car stereo.  Today I just wire nut everything to the output (12v) on the converter but I'm looking for a clean way to provide power and thought that I could two of these to provide + and - connections to each device.

With two buses I could land the fans etc on each buss and then provide the power connections to the buss frm the converter.  Should be a cleaner way to do this and allow me some more connections.

Thoughts?  Any suggestions?  Truth is I was looking for a toggle gang switch I could provide power to on one side and then multiple toggles for each item (so I could then just turn them on or off).

How are you fusing the devices on your 12V systems?
I'm planning to use a low voltage DC breaker panel.
Blue Sea Systems makes some nice ones and they even make custom ones.
The only bus I'll need is a ground(12V-) one as the breaker panels have an internal 12V+ bus connecting to the breakers.

[OlJarhead]

Went with the blue sea stuff.  basically the blue sea panel for switching and fusing and a blue sea buss for grounds.

[OlJarhead]

Hmmmm........ok first 3 panels are up and wanted to get at least two more up before leaving this weekend but it's been snowing so that aint happening.  I thought perhaps I could get some equipment installed but my idea of putting it inside isn't working too well either.  So that leaves me back to putting it in the porch which I was trying to avoid.

Next issue was that I realized two of the 3 DC breaker placements on the Midnite Solar 250A Disconnect box were taken up (one for PV in and one for Controller out) leaving only one remaining spot for the new controller out breaker.....I could leave the combiner breakers as my only breaker in the mix on the Outback Controller but am not sure I like that idea so I'm trying to figure out how to now install a 4th breaker in this box.  There is an opening at the rear up top that looks like a plate can be installed there, perhaps for installing more breakers and I'm hoping that is the case becuase I'd rather not have to buy more boxes.  As it is now I have two Midnite Solar PV combiner boxes and the Midnite Solar DC Disconnect box.

[MountainDon]

This month marks the 100th month (8 years, 4 months) that our golf cart batteries have been in service.    They still attain full charge after a normal days sunshine and after a normal previous day and nights use. A few cells in the grouping of 12 batteries have to struggle some to reach "full" sp. gr. readings but they do come along. We are happy!   

[OlJarhead]

Midnight solar sent me the plate for the 2nd opening in the DC Breaker box so I am set there.  Just need to get the breaker for the solar panels and then I can get back to setting up the new panels.  I have 4 up but it's snowed a bunch up there so I am uncertain if I will get the next 3 panels up.  I could use the three I have in series but the voltage will be close to the max (something like 118-120 in series so when it gets cold that will go up and could approach the max which I think is 150vdc).  Or I can just use two and cap off the 3rd until I can get a 4th (or all) panel up.

[Beavers]

I can't quite wrap my head around amp hours...

If I have four 6v 200 amp hour batteries, do I have 800 amp hours of storage regardless if they are wired at 12 or 24 volts?

[MountainDon]

If the batteries are all in series for 24 volts, then you have 200 amp-hours at 24 volts.

If the batteries are wired in two series pairs to provide 12 volts per series pair and then those are connected in parallel, then you have 400 amp hours at 12 volts.

Perhaps it would be easier to think in terms of watt hours? In both of the above cases the total energy is the same.
24 volts x 200 amo-hours = 4800 watt-hours. Similarly 12 volts x 400 amp-hours = 4800 watt hours.

Assuming all batteries are the same, when batteries are in series we add the volts up but retain the same amp-hour rating as a single battery. When batteries are in parallel we add the amp-hours but retain the same voltage as a single battery. If the batteries are in a combination of series and parallel perform one step at a time. Each series set and each parallel set must be the same. . EG, first add the volts of one series string to get the volts, then add the amp-hours of the parallel sets to get the AH capacity.

Amp-hours printed on a battery applies to one one battery; connect more batteries in series or parallel and you must apply the information given above to get the total energy.

Hope that helps.

[Beavers]

Thanks Don...Yes watt hours does make more sense.  I was worried that by going higher voltage I was somehow getting less storage capacity.

[MountainDon]

sent you a PM beavers