Roof Framing question

[firefox]

Hi!
 This is a simple garage that I am trying to fix, but it is my first ever framing project
using wood.
Here are links to two crude drawings:http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bruce/Temp/

My question relates to the support members below the two 4x4s that support the struts that
allow for an extension covering the entrance.

I am thinking that it only needs the center post. But I really don't know. I am open to suggestions
especially since I want to keep the inspecters happy.

Thanks a bunch,
Bruce

[glenn kangiser]

Is this a remodel, Bruce?

Widening the door etc.?  

Permits - inspections?

Looks like not too much room for bracing.

Just trying to get a feel for what all is involved here.

[firefox]

Hi Glenn,
 Not exactly a remodel since the inspectors havent seen what it was but yes it is a modification of the original which did not allow for a roof overhang over the door.
 Yes it is slightly wider opening than the original, but only by about a foot at the most.
Yes there will be inspections, but I am hoping that if I make it stronger than what it needs,
they will not give me a hard time. I may be being  naive here though....
No, there isn't a lot of room.

If you can give me a few pointers on what you think might work, that would be nice, even if it means cutting things short, that's ok.

The goal is to have a little overhang at least, so I don't drown while shutting the garage door.

Thanks a bunch Glenn!
Bruce

[MountainDon]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't follow the diagrams. Any chance of a photo?

[glenn kangiser]

I think you are asking about using only the post at each edge of the door opening.  Just making a guess, but I think the building department will want plans from an architect or engineer.   I assume you are i the big city from your link address.  

They are not usually very lenient. I think there may be a bracing problem on the front as 1' each side,  is not enough to get a standard approved bracing in.

I am not an architect, but work around this stuff quite a bit.  If you are going for permits etc, I would suggest sketching it up - take it to them for review or ask for an inspector or plan checker  to look over your plan and ask him what they will require.

[firefox]

Sorry if this isn't clear.  There are no photos Don because there is nothing to photograph yet,
since all that is left of the original structure is one side and the back.

Glenn, the post I was asking about is the one in the center of the header. I was thinking that it really only
needed that one post and not the other diagonal posts.

I was also thinking that the header was sufficiently supported by the two 4x4 posts on either side. I would think that they would act as a 1' x3 1/2" column if suitable blocks were inserted in between the two 4x4's. and that the pieces were all tied together solidly
with appropriate simpson connectors.

However if this is starting to have you say architect, then I am probably way off base.

Thanks for helping me from myself.....
Bruce

[glenn kangiser]

If you are in the city and getting permits, I would say draw it up and ask the officials when trying to get a permit.

At the least on the front corners  I would box with plywood, nail and glue both sections with a couple of anchors into the concrete - both sides, including a minimum 4x8 header acros then entire front and nailed and glued into the boxed section.  In the country - no permits - I think you would be fine - In the city - Bay area -- I doubt that will be sufficient, but just a guess on all of it.

Standard code prescribed construction would dictate cripple studs above the header at least on 24" centers I think or else you would be into post and beam which req's an engineers design and approval.

I think minimum distance for extra strong brace panels is about 2'6" each side.  Garage codes may be less restrictive than house codes so draw or sketch  it up and ask at least -- could save you some money.

[firefox]

Thanks Glenn,
  That clears up a lot of stuff. I think I have a handle on it now.
I will probably have to go back to the original regrettably. But that
is ok since I will be selling the house and most of the modern cars are small enough to fit
into the garage.
  When I move to Eureka Nevada I will be building a much larger garage from a
military tent frame with suitable reinforcements made of steel. 24' x 48' x 18' high.
Wood is nice, but I prefer steel for things like this.
Bruce

[desdawg]

Thanks Glenn,
  That clears up a lot of stuff. I think I have a handle on it now.
I will probably have to go back to the original regrettably. But that
is ok since I will be selling the house and most of the modern cars are small enough to fit
into the garage.
  When I move to Eureka Nevada I will be building a much larger garage from a
military tent frame with suitable reinforcements made of steel. 24' x 48' x 18' high.
Wood is nice, but I prefer steel for things like this.
Bruce

I would be interested in seeing your tent frame plans. I have an old cheapie carport frame that I am going to convert for housing my Bobcat up on the mountain. I used recycled septic tank lids for the "footers" and will be bolting 2X6 horizontally with appropriate bracing to prevent racking, then siding and roofing pole barn style. I got the frame given to me and then started thinking (you never want to hear me say "I've been thinking"). I got some PT 2X6 at the auction that had been planed 1/8 undersize (woops) and some aluminum sheet siding from the same place on the cheap. It should be an almost free labor only project if I don't get too carried away. I really wanted a land sea container up there but getting one in would be a real bear so I am going to settle for this.

[glenn kangiser]

You can get self drilling screws with wings before the threads to pre-drill the wood then when they hit the steel the wings tear off and drill the hole and thread the pipe , installing the board in one operation, desdawg.  I have used them decking trailers etc.  Home Depot Carries them.

[firefox]

Hi Desdawg,

Go to epay  and serch for this number 320096368610      
This is Ted Hill's stuff and he is a  Military Vehicle restorer.
I have know him for years now and is extremely reliable.

There are about 5 pictures of his frame  there with the covering he put on it.

Here is the parts list that he used to make his garage:

Supplies used on 48' of frame without ends

34 - 10' X 3' galv. sheet metal
34 - 12' X 3' galv. sheet metal
108 - 2 X 4 X 8' wood
5 - 10' ridge cap
2 - 50' rolls of 12" flashing
2000 - self tapping metal roofing screws
14 - concrete anchors and bolts

Ted Hils
Ted's Trucks 'N Stuff
1181 County Road 560
Midland City, AL  36350
334-983-1092
Mon - Fri, 8-5 Central Time

://www.stores.ebay.com/tedstrucksnstuff

[desdawg]

Interesting stuff. My frame isn't magnesium and isn't that tall but it was tricky for me to put it together alone. Everything wanted to be flopping around and taller than me so it was a challenge.
I have seen the self drilling screws but not with the wings you mentioned Glenn. I will have to check it out. I was going to use carriage bolts and nuts but that would be lots of drilling. It may be stronger that way though but it is always a PIA to drill through round pipe.

[glenn kangiser]

Nice thing about the wings is they ream the hole bigger than the screw threads so the wood doesn't crawl up the screw and stop while you are trying to drill the steel..  I use a Ryobi clutch drill so it will stop if I don't stop soon enough.

[desdawg]

Do you happen to know the name of those screws so I know what to ask for?

[glenn kangiser]

Power Bull ®
14 x 2 3/4 1LB. Phillips Wafer Head Self-Drilling Screws, with Wings

Model 50548

Shows not available on line now but they have always had them at the end of the screw isle in Home Depot when I went in there.

[desdawg]

Thanks Glenn. I think most Home Depots are pretty much the same. I have gone to different stores when one was out of something and found the pricing and location of most items within the stores to be pretty uniform.