Beams under 14x24 Little House

[MountainDon]

I've searched for this and didn't come up with any answer, if there ever was one posted.

Before I ever found this wonderful site we'd decided on the dimensions of 14x26 for our mtn cabin. Earlier this week I ordered the LH plans and today they came. Thanks John.

Everything I've built or added onto to this point has sat on a concrete slab of one sort or another. I've not doing that this time, there's no mixer in the world that would make it up my road.   So we're using a post and beam foundation, with the posts being attached to the top of concrete piers and footings. The plan shows six piers at 4 foot spacing with 4x8 beam on top. Our ground is rated at 3000 lbs/sf. It's tough digging. I may be able to get a tractor mounted auger up there; I may not. Depends how much the tractor owner wants for his effort. Or maybe I can rent one of those cool augers seen elsewhere here.  :-/

If I have to excavate the holes myself is it practical to reduce the number of holes by increasing the spacing to 6 feet and upping the beam size? I guess the real question is what would the new beam size have to be? 4x?   6x?  

I've decided to upgrade the floor joists to at least 2x8's to reduce the deflection so I can safely install ceramic tile flooring as well as for extra insulation. 3/4" T&G plywood with joint staggered 1/4" underlay on top of the 3/4.

Another question; for the piers; would drystacking either 8x8 or 12x12 CMU's and filling their center with appropriate rebar and concrete be as suitable as sonotubes; on top of a properly sized reinforced poured in place pad? I'll be mixing the concrete with my portable mixer.

Thank you ever so much.

[John_C]

Don,
  You gave me something to think about over my morning coffee.   I'd be tempted to use 8"x16" column blocks, parallel to the long dimension of the house.  4  #4 or #5  rebar as a vertical cage all set on top of an appropriate footing.
   6' Spans should be doable.  If I'm not mistaken the spans for post and pier foundations on some of John's larger houses are as high as 7' 6".   If you poke around the forum you may find what others have used for the 20x30  or   Victoria.
    Somewhere I have beam tables but without looking it up ..  I have a local source for 24' long  4x12 douglas fir (full 4") and I'd be tempted to use that and not have to bolt together a bunch of smaller pieces.  
YMMV   John

[youngins]

I have a local source for 24' long  4x12 douglas fir (full 4") and I'd be tempted to use that and not have to bolt together a bunch of smaller pieces.  

I have noticed the retail beams to be somewhat mostly undesirable.  I search at several for a 4x6 - painstakingly pulled pieces of off the racks looking for straight pieces which I really could not find.  The best solution for retail straight beams turned out for me to be the built up solution. I imagine that straight complete beams do exist at high end or specialty vendors - but it might be cost prohibitive, especially after considering shipping.

[John_C]

I don't doubt that youngins.  Just poking through the piles of framing lumber at the big box stores is depressing.   Locally I have several places that sell log homes and they seem to be a good source for larger size timbers.  The 2nd floor joists in my current house are full length 24' 4x8 rough sawn douglas fir.  They sit on a douglas fir center beam 4x12 x 32'.  

The delivery driver helped me push them all up on top of the framed first floor walls. We put the 14  24 footers across the top plates at one end of the house. From there I was on my own.  Gave him a tip and we were both happy.

I'm trying to work thing out to build a new house and all of it, from dealing with the building dept. to finding materials is SO much more of a PITA than just a few years ago.

[PEG688]

#1: I don't doubt that youngins.  Just poking through the piles of framing lumber at the big box stores is depressing.  

#2:      Locally I have several places that sell log homes and they seem to be a good source for larger size timbers.

#3:     The 2nd floor joists in my current house are full length 24' 4x8 rough sawn douglas fir.  They sit on a douglas fir center beam 4x12 x 32'.  


#4: I'm trying to work thing out to build a new house and all of it, from dealing with the building dept. to finding materials is SO much more of a PITA than just a few years ago.

#1: Big box stores are NOT the place to buy lumber, IMO, a local "true lumber yard" would MTL be  a better sourse of lumber.

#2:  In a big city a salvage company might also be a place to look , YMMV.

#3: Those would be hard to find even in the PNW today, if you found them , they'd be spendy.

#4: Ain't that the truth   or maybe     :-/

[John Raabe]

Mountain Don:

I looked at a bigger beam for the 14x24 Little House and came up with this. If you set the span at a max of 8', which would be 4 piers on each side of the 14' width, you can go to a DF 6x12 (or Built-up equivalent) for the beam and carry the whole place. I would use either a sonotube or block pier with a good sized footer. Resize the brackets for 6" beams or 6x6 posts.



These images from http://countryplans.com/foundation/index.html

[MountainDon]

Thank yo so much, John. I was thinking built-up 6xsomething, but wasn't sure by-what. And 4 footings and piers per side is even better than what I was thinking.

[John_C]

PEG Said

#1: Big box stores are NOT the place to buy lumber, IMO, a local "true lumber yard" would MTL be  a better sourse of lumber.


#3: Those would be hard to find even in the PNW today, if you found them , they'd be spendy.


#1.  Locally the "true lumber yards" have become worse than the big box stores, especially for framing lumber.   You have to pay the clerk and get a ticket, then wait for a yard man who takes your ticket and returns with your order.  That's the first time you get to see the wood.  If you think its too warped or whatever the yard man is unlikely to do anything...  so you ask for his supervisor, and his.  Sometimes they accommodate you sometimes the just shrug and say "hey what are we supposed to do with the bent ones"
(off color comment don't win points with the lumber guys).  In any case you get stopped at the gate by another guy who has to checks your order board by board against the invoice.  At least at the big box I get to pick my sticks, pay & go.  

#3.  I've got a price list around here from a few months ago.  I'll post some prices when I find it. I'd be interested to know how it compares to what you pay.  

[MountainDon]

#1: Big box stores are NOT the place to buy lumber, IMO, a local "true lumber yard" would MTL be  a better sourse of lumber.

#1.  Locally the "true lumber yards" have become worse.....  

I guess the quality can vary locally. For small jobs I use either one of my 2 HomeDepots, or my one Lowe's; they're within 5 miles of me, whereas the others are maybe 15-20 miles away. I pick and choose. For something I larger I call one, or both, of the yards whose trucks I see delivering to all the new developing areas around me. Mostly it seems good to very good. Go figure.

You can go in there and buy assorted twisted, warped, of whatever rejects they have on hand for so much a pound. Trouble is trying to load it.   Good for small projects or firewood and no more expensive.

[PEG688]

Yes location area customs etc would all have something to do with it.

On another forum , a wooden boat one , a guy from Conn. was down in Fl. working on a boat and said the wood down in Fl. was really bad , and he had hunted around , talked to carpenters , boat builder to try and find decent wood , but never did . What he had to use he called fire wood , so like realestate location  , location , location.   :'(

BTW I / we have one yard around here thats almost as bad as you described, I use it only when I have to , same deal almost , I do still go pick out my stock , then get my ticket , they don't really like it but haven't pushed it yet . If they do I'll drive the 20 miles and they'll lose a little business.  So far they ain't pushed