Language then and now

[Amanda_931]

Two links.

Jane Smiley quoting a turn of the--last--century Hiram Johnson, back in those days California governor and senator:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/we-can-do-better_b_28636.html

"In the City of San Francisco, we have drunk to the very dregs of infamy; we have had vile officials; we have had rotten newspapers. But we have nothing so vile, nothing so low, nothing so debased, nothing so infamous in San Francisco as Harrison Gray Otis. He sits there in senile dementia with gangrene heart and rotting brain, grimacing at every reform, chattering impotently at all things that are decent, frothing, fuming, violently gibbering, going down to his grave in snarling infamy. He is one thing that California looks at when, in looking at Southern California, they see anything that is disgraceful, depraved, corrupt, crooked, and putrescent--that is Harrison Gray Otis."

The other is best gone to, the Reality Based Community with a dictionary.  Might find it pretty offensive if your politics tend you that way, if they don't it is funny.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/language_and_usage_/2006/09/englishwinglish_dictionary_updated.php

alternative energy sources /n. phr./ 1. New locations to drill for gas and oil. 2. Coal mines.

[glenn-k]

It is kinda funny but unfortunately mostly true.

[benevolance]

Sadly it is very true...You read it and start chuckling...then you get depressed and wonder how in the hell did we ever allow this nut job to run the country into the ground...

Yeah I know the end of the election was a sham and his brother was the govenor in Florida...But how in the hell did it ever get that close...The most disappointing thing for me is that enough people voted for Dubbya that they could destroy enough ballots to get him into office...

If he had 30% of the popular vote this would not be possible...A lot of people actually voted for this imbecile....It is bad enough when crooks who run the country try to take away freedoms and make the wealthy even more powerful..

What scares me most is when people just vote for one party every election for their entire life...No matter what...No matter what we say...Half of America voted for this clown and his cronies....Which is a much larger threat to American safety and freedom than any terrorist attack.

[Sassy]

Here's 3 more definitions that someone responded with to the article you posted, Amanda..

"Significant minority turnout / n. phr./ large numbers illegal aliens.

Democrat /n. or adj./ political party whose primary policy includes redistribution of wealth as long as rich democrats are exempt.
(Syn: "Liberal")

Liberal /n. or adj./ the ideological opposite of Conservative, but equally Monarchist. (Syn: "Socialist")"

Posted by: NoKool-Aid at September 3, 2006 12:14 AM

Sadly, most of the definitions are true in that "dictionary" ... although I had to laugh when reading it  :-/

Here's one I particularly liked:  "conspiracy theorist /n. phr./ Someone with a mind so sick and so twisted as to be capable of believing the truth about the Bush Administration and the Republican leadership in Congress."

[peg_688]

Sadly it is very true...You read it and start chuckling...then you get depressed and wonder how in the hell did we ever allow this nut job to run the country into the ground...

Yeah I know the end of the election was a sham and his brother was the govenor in Florida...But how in the hell did it ever get that close...The most disappointing thing for me is that enough people voted for Dubbya that they could destroy enough ballots to get him into office...

If he had 30% of the popular vote this would not be possible...A lot of people actually voted for this imbecile....It is bad enough when crooks who run the country try to take away freedoms and make the wealthy even more powerful..

What scares me most is when people just vote for one party every election for their entire life...No matter what...No matter what we say...Half of America voted for this clown and his cronies....Which is a much larger threat to American safety and freedom than any terrorist attack.

So this is the voice of balance ?  Yer a friggin wing nut Peter When the last time you didn't vote for a democrat? You still livin in 2001? Get over it , move on , Al did.

[glenn-k]

It doesn't matter who you vote for - if you vote wrong the Supreme Court or Electronic voting machines can correct it for you.  It is impossible to mistakenly vote for the wrong person.  Now that's what I call progress.

[benevolance]

Peg,

I was not an American way back when it was time to vote for Gore... So I did not vote for either one..

I keep my options open...If things get much worse down here I will take the wife and family and flee back to the safe haven that is Canada.

Peg there is a huge fundamental difference between democrats and Republicans...Mostly that Bush has the lowest approval rating ever for a president...And if there was an election tomorrow the republicans for the most part would all vote for Bush again (providing he could run again)

Meaning that they know he is a crook, a liar, and he is running the country into the ground....But the bulk of the republicans would rather that than vote for a democrat....

Funny thing about the left and the right....What was the middle during the Reagan Administration is portrayed as grossly liberal today...

And another thing about the word Liberal...It has connotations that are pleasant, almost benevolent....The republicans have tried to get people to think that a liberal is a communist.

Most democrats I know are willing to listen to conservative issues and viewpoints...No Republican I know is willing to listen to anything but hardcore party doctrine.

I would vote republican if they had a better candidate than the Democratic nominee...If some lunatic like Dubbya was running for the Democrats I would absolutely not vote for him....

We have to remember that At one point even hitler got voted in....And remember that the process can be dangerous....As voting in Dubbya has proven

[peg_688]

#1:  I was not an American way back when it was time to vote for Gore... So I did not vote for either one..

#2:     I keep my options open...If things get much worse down here I will take the wife and family and flee back to the safe haven that is Canada.

#3:      Peg there is a huge fundamental difference between democrats and Republicans...

#4:    Mostly that Bush has the lowest approval rating ever for a president...

#5:     And if there was an election tomorrow the republicans for the most part would all vote for Bush again (providing he could run again)

#6:       Meaning that they know he is a crook, a liar, and he is running the country into the ground....But the bulk of the republicans would rather that than vote for a democrat....

#7:      Funny thing about the left and the right....What was the middle during the Reagan Administration is portrayed as grossly liberal today...

#8:       And another thing about the word Liberal...It has connotations that are pleasant, almost benevolent....The republicans have tried to get people to think that a liberal is a communist.

#9:      Most democrats I know are willing to listen to conservative issues and viewpoints...No Republican I know is willing to listen to anything but hardcore party doctrine.

#10:    I would vote republican if they had a better candidate than the Democratic nominee...If some lunatic like Dubbya was running for the Democrats I would absolutely not vote for him....

#11:       We have to remember that At one point even hitler got voted in....And remember that the process can be dangerous....As voting in Dubbya has proven

 #1:So if you'd of had the chance you'd have voted for the inventor of the internet? The one who's life storey was the base's for the movie "Love storey"?  Those two grand lies should tell ya something about Albert's honesty !

#2:How safe are you in Canada if the USA is not a world or regional power? To me , my opinion Canada has it easy and has had it easy having USA as it's neighbor for about 175 years , about the last time give or take a google for exact date as to our last border conflict.

#3:How so ? One tells you they have to tax you , on  tells you they have to tax the other guy , the rich, the corp., a business all the while my tax's lower middle class have gone up regulardlee of who was in the white house . At least Clinton did not cause massive inflation , high interest rates , and skyrogking unemployment like Carter

#4:It ain't a popularity contest at this point , he's a lame duck, doesn't matter much.


#5: Well he can't although Clinton has floated the idea that a ex pres like himself  ::)Sould or could run again after a 8 year or so IIRC out of office . We'll have to choose from two other lesser evils this time .  No one mentioned any where I've read sounds worth a $hit gene pool of elites is to small

#6:Can I throw the BULL$HIT flag here

#7: Really? Huh they hated Reagan more than Bush IMO, YMMV

#8: What do you call it when some one or some party tries to take your money you earned and spread it to the folks who won't work even if they could  :-/You beleive what you like Bennie  ::)Canadians ,  ::)Eh

#9: Most liberals I know and have talked to or posted with have turned out to be nice in person but over bearing in thier views on line ,some even in person,  insisting they are right aways every time , again YMMV, and it's based on your / or my perspective on the issue . You called all people who voted for Bush, what was it, stupid , morons, etc in your previous post . Typical of a liberal , come out swing then claim to be open minded and totally objective  

#10: Do we really know anyone we elect to that office ? Who 's to say what any other Pres. might have done ? How can you be sure, Clinton like asprin factory's when the chips where down That statement is to far fetched to answer or debate.  

#11: Oh and the Hilter thing thats always a sure winner when in a arguement/debate liken Bush to Hilter, WE HAVE WINNER HERE Yup the old Hilter deal clearly a winner, I'd pack those bags and head north if I was you Peter, much safer in Canada    

[Amanda_931]

I really don't think that was a "Bring Hitler into it and pretend it trumps everything" statement.

Sometimes people have made horrible mistakes with their elections.

Hitler was elected.

Bush was not elected in 2000.  Even my insurance guy here--one of the most Republican people I've met in a long long time agrees that the Supreme Court stepped in and stopped the squabbling.  Rightly or wrongly.

He may or may not have been (at one stage Mother Jones magazine published a story questioning the problems in Ohio) in 2004.

[benevolance]

Peg,

well it might be bad math... but the border dispute leading upto world war one was not 175 years ago...In that dispute America used it's military leverage to steal much of the alaskan peninsula from Canada...And they used what was the precursor of the U.N. to do it....You might  want to read up on it

And  Canada has no enemies...We start no wars...We occupy no foriegn land against the wishes of other people...Why do they need to spend trillions annually on more tanks more planes and more nukes? It is typical to think that we would never survive without all the American guns planes and bombs...But seriously who would attack Canada? who is going to invade a country that gives selflessly to the rest of the world when it comes to humanitarian aid...To a country that believes in peacekeeping as a means to end strife and conflict....Canada still welcomes many european and Asian immigrants...No country would attack us. America could cease to exist and there would be no need for Canada to have Nukes or to suddenly build half a dozen aircraft carriers etc...

Canada does benefit from the USA....They benefit because the USA is a consumer of goods...They have 6% of the world population and consume 40% of the worlds resources. Canada sells energy, oil, water, lumber. Precious metals to the USA...Thinking that Canada Benefits because the USA has all those weapons is ridiculous. Sadly  you think that Canada has freedom only because of America. What a crock of bullsh.it

Canada is also thousands miles away from Europe and the middle east so there is no threat of any hostility or an attack. In fact the only threat to Canada would be terrorists trying to make an example of Canada for doing whatever the USA tells them to. Proximity to the USA is Canada's largest safety concern...If someone wants to build a nuke or chemical weapon Canada will suffer right along with the USA if they are attacked

The taxes in Canada are too high...But there is nothig wrong with making society one of the most important priorities....It is easy to call it a welfare state. But the standard of living in Canada is extremely high. Education, healthcare and retirement are among the most important aspects of Canadian life.

Like any Government program it is not perfect and some bum getting a check every month does make it look bad for everyone. There are people on Welfare in America too!

Taxes are high, but half of the sales tax in Canada goes directly to paying off the National debt...Which will be paid off completely in my lifetime....And Canada has for the last decade or so took the approach that balancing the budget was of the utmost importance as well. And so they have a small surplus every year which they pay down the debt and re-invest into the country.

When I got married and moved down here almost three years ago I was shocked. Warm weather and cheap Gasoline you might have. But the typical american superiority complex is totally bogus. Yes America has the most Nukes and can blow up the world about 15 times....Other than that they are seriously lacking other parts of the world in Education, Healthcare.

Living in Canada there was this personna to the USA....Flag waving patriots living the american dream. I come down here to find out that they many are living a lie. Their freedom has been invaded by bush and the patriot act(nice name for it btw) There is no financial freedom for most. The country is going bankrupt... the debt is out of control. Education and healthcare are for the rich. The yearly budgets keep breaking records for their deficits and the current government has taken so much money from the social security fund to pay for the Iraq war that people might have to work longer than expected and some people may not be getting social security at all.

Excuse me for not grabbing a flag, chugging a six-pack and signing God Bless America
Excuse me for being worried about my wife and families's future
Excuse me for wondering how we can afford to send the little ones to School or how to pay if someone gets sick.

Bush got in due to a horrendous error and abuse of his brothers office. But I stand by the statement that I am scared to death to think that 45% of the people voted for this idiot in 2000.

Bush examples comparing to Hitler are Valid on many fronts. He is running this country full steam ahead into ruin much like Hitler did. He has the mentality that america can occupy other countries without serious repercussions. Like Hitler did

He is spending money on the Military at the expense of social programs...at the expense of balancing the budget. Like Hitler.

There is no Holocaust, but Look at the needlessness of the death and following insurgency in Iraq  and Afghanistan because of the American invasions and occupations. Look at Amnesty international to see the longlist of human right violations the USA has committed in the last 5 years. You would think it was 1940 Poland all over again detention camps in Gitmo bay cuba. refusing to let the red cross inspect captives treat wounds administer medicine

yes this is clearly the work of a benevolent society, and a humanitarian leader. Bush talks about freedom. What about the rights and freedoms of those that do not wish to obey the commands of the USA? Does that mean you just go in and wipe them out half the world? Nice

[glenn-k]

I have to agree that US foreign policy is why 3/4 of the world hates us.  The rest of the world does not think our figurehead is a genius.

[peg_688]

I was  referencing the French / indian war of 18--some thing .The last war USA vs. Canada . I won't look it up . You should move back to Canada before your kids are american- izd. BTW your new Prime minister doing a pretty good job , IMO. Your from eastern Canada arn't ya?

And please keep your Canadian citizen out of northern US hospitals when they need surgery quickly and are denighed it in Canada cuz they're  to old , to high on the list.

Yup I'd move to Canada as quickly as I could , you'll be safer living in the dream world that no one would ever want to attack your old :-/ country. Why did you leave there ? Love ? Are you a US citizen or a illagel alian   Or working on a green card . I know none of my business, hope the Govt. doesn't find ya   Are you avoiding tax's in both countries  

Have a nice day Peter, watch your back, big brothers watching

[MIEDRN]

I'm disappointed when I read the insults here. I thought as a group we had more tolerance and respect than the majority of forums out there. I'd hate to see this change.

I questioned whether I should say something because I'm a newbie to the forum. I consider it mine too though.

It's only as good as we as a group make it. I for one, don't like where this is headed. Disagreements, debates are one thing...insults are another.

Just my humble opinion.

[benevolance]

Peg,

If it was just upto me I would be living back in Canada! I got married, and originally the plan was to move her to Canada to live with me. But then she inherited her Grandfather's house So that threw a monkey wrench in our plans....and she has since gotten a decent job that she loves.

Since the patriot act got passed I do not think that anyone is truly free in America...I worry about my family...And I worry about the lives of the innicent unsuspecting americans all around me that do not realise their rights and freedoms are being stripped away systematically all the time.

My Wife has a picture of her Grandfather on her bedroom wall in his army uniform when he served in WWII....It makes me want to puke....That guy knew he was fighting a real war and when he said he was defending democracy and standing up for the free world it was the truth. The very freedoms he enjoyed are disappearing in America...

I gave up a decent repair business back home to come down here....I am a mecnahic by trade..I figured that I could do what I was doing home just about anywhere...So down here I am

It scares me half to death to think that our kids would go to university down here....It is ridiculous the cost. Becomming something only the rich or stupid would even attempt considering the cost and the debt that would result from someone that is not rich trying to send their kids to a good school.

Canada's healthcare system is not perfect...But it works...Ask yourself why americans all want Canadian Pharmacuticals? They cost 80% less in Canada on average...Same pills same bottles from the same companies...In Canada the most important thing is providing healthcare...The pure capitalistic profit angle of it is a distant second....This is why Canadian doctors make a fraction of what American Doctors make...Ditto for Nurses....

America has huge shortages for any kind of skilled position...Which is understandable because of the ridiculous price to get into a post secondary school.....Because there are not enough americans going to school to become doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers...America has to severly overpay for these positions to be filled by recruiting in Canada, Europe and Asia.

Because a quality education costs 1/5th in Canada compared to the us....And the average annual income is much closer than that...People in Canada can afford to go to University and become highly qualified....In Canada the hospitals do have waiting lists....But the level of care is high and the equipment and staff are state of the art. Considering it is free It is a very good system for the people.

People needing major surgery are not denied...It is much like the emergency room in America....two people walk in at the same time...One guy has a broken finger... the other guy has cut off his arm....Who goes first...The guy with the arm sawed off...Because he is bleeding to death....

that is how they do it in Canada...less important surgeries are done when there is space and time....Urgent care comes first... I do not think that is a bad thing at all.

I would trade that against the US system where seniors cannot afford their medications because they cost so much money...

I do not want to insult you personally peg....I am just in shock that more people are not asking questions. I am shocked that so many people are willing to follow people like bush off the end of the cliff... I am shocked that more people are not demanding that America change it's foriegn policy. I am shocked that more people are not demanding that foriegn invasions are scaled back, weapon productions are scaled back so that progress can be achieved in places like New orleans...So that the debt can be paid down....So the yearly books can be balanced...So that America can clean up the air and water it's citizens are forced to drink and breathe.

The american dream used to be providing a better life for your family than was afforded to you....It was the same in Canada. 60 Years ago After WWII it was still possible...we had the baby boom and America was a safe country with a booming economy. Since that time America has spent untold fortunes invading and occupying other countries around the world at the expense of the very american society the average citizen holds so dear.

If you believe that this is a better country now today than it was 50-60 years ago there is little hope for you....impo

-Peter

[glenn-k]

Thanks miedrn.  We don't need to trade insults but the opinions and information shared are worth sharing.  

I think both sides have points -

It does seem a shame that with our system Kathy is paying over $600 per month out of her check for our health insurance that I hardly ever use and she uses a little and the only reason it is useable for her is that she is a nurse and makes them provide the services she knows is necessary -- otherwise they do pretty well try to shine us on.

Just about any thing we really need isn't covered and we still have to pay that out of our pockets.

Let's play nice now everybody.

[benevolance]

Glenn

This is playing nice

I am amazed at your restriant we are talking about your hero Bush after all...

[glenn-k]

Too burned out lately to get into it too heavy.  

It's him --but he's got a great big group pulling his strings and talking into his earpiece -- well -- not all the time -- every once in a while he shows us what happens when he speaks for himself.

It seems that word is getting out - something like 38% of the people think 911 was at least an assisted setup to get public approval for nearly anything they wanted to do, or to do to us.  About 70% disapprove of how things are being run.  Most all would love to see our kids stop dying in foreign countries and not suffer from the effects of depleted uranium as reward for their service.

[bartholomew]

These "my country is better than your country" arguments get silly fast. In truth, Canadians and Americans are much more alike than a few high-profile policy differences would suggest. Probably half you Yanks would say the Canucks have a better health care system, and half us Canucks would say those Yanks have a better system, eh?

By the way, didn't the US buy Alaska from Russia? I don't think it was ever British, French or Canadian territory. And it was the War of 1812 that saw Americans invading and getting their butts kicked back over the border.

[glenn-k]

I've been to a few different countries - Canada, Mexico and France I think is about it and and I have a lot of friends from a lot of countries. I find that once you get away from the politicians and get out in the country with the people usually nothing but good times happens.  People just want to live - get along, share experiences, customs, food and friendliness for the most part.  Leave it to politicians to mess that up.

[benevolance]

Bart

you are right on parts of the 1812 war and alaska...

America did buy what was Alaska from Russia...Trouble was America extended their territory far beyond what was ever settled or claimed by the Russians...There was a huge dispute and the world court tried to offer a compromise which Canada Accepted...However world war one was looming a few years away and America made it known internationally that unless they got all of the disputed land that they might lend money and arms to Germany instead of Britian...And when the international community decided suprisingly all of the disputed land went to the USA....Which is incredible considering that at the time Canada was still part of the british empire

If you look at a Map of British Columbia there is  a huge chunk of the province with no pacific coast access...Most of the southern tip of what is now the Alaska penninsula was Canadian land 100 years ago

Back in 1812 America had visions of taking Canada and adding it to their own territory...Only they were soundly defeated on Canadian Soil and had no further interests in Capturing Canada....They turned their attentions west to slaughter the Indians and the Spanish in huge land Grabs.

The only people in Canada I have ever heard talk about the benefits of the American Healthcare system are the ultra wealthy....Those that feel money means they do not have to wait their turn to see a doctor or get an operation...The elite few in Canada have talked for years about a system where you could pay for your surgery and not have to wait...

I have been part of both systems and I prefer the system that is affordable...To be covered on my wife's policy it would cost over $600 a month...Not something I would do....If I broke my arm tomorrow I would drive home and get it fixed there... In the couple years since I have been married I have learned to do minor surgery on myself...Removing a corn off my foot and fixing a broken thumb myself...

Not something I recommend for everyone...I just refuse to pay thousands for something simple like a broken bone unless it is life threatening....My next trip home I am getting new glasses, getting a filling in one of my teeth and a check up for recurring chest pains in my left side... No insurance for me and many other people in America means doing without medical care...Heck a few months ago I had a piece of steel in my eye and it was nasty...I pulled it out and washed it out with medicated eye drops for days unable to see much of anything...I just do not have the kind of money it takes to go to a hospital down here and get medical treatment.

I would not say that the system here in America works at all really...At least in Canada it does work...Even if there are waiting lists....

Oh and Glenn....Katie Couric is going to interview the President...Too bad he only agrees to answer planted questions...I wonder how he would do trying to answer some of your questions....without his earpiece of course.

[glenn-k]

I just came across an article about how Hitler came to power.  It was kind of like being installed after voting didn't go so well.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hornberger/hornberger100.html

As  Shultzy would say, " Verrrry interesting" or "Veddy interesting."