Author Topic: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property  (Read 11855 times)

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Offline Beavers

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2018, 05:28:01 PM »
That's a great view from the dormer window [cool]

I agree...12:12 pitch is too steep for a ladder. I was planning a platform like yours until I found some scaffolding for cheap at an auction.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2019, 10:32:16 AM »
I'm still alive here in the great white north, and am busy making preparations for a trip out to the property in a few weeks.

Work is progressing slowly on the 12x16, but there is measurable progress.

Here's the scaffolding I put in for working more safely on the roof.


Much of my building season this last winter was spent at home assisting my wife through surgery recovery.  Sheathing is complete on the roof.  To date there is water&ice shield on the east side of the roof and still a blue tarp on the west side.  I purchased my metal roofing material and hauled it out to the property.  We'll be on site for 9 days in early July and will be getting the metal roof on and flashed.

In addition to the scaffolding I will be using a harness and fall line.  I'm planning on making a chicken ladder out of 2x4 and hang it off the roof peak to allow safely moving up and down the roof while screwing in the standing-seam panels.

I welcome further suggestions on installing a standing seam roof on a 12:12 pitch.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Migraine Craftsman

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2019, 01:04:25 PM »
Scaffolding looks good, add you a 2 by 6 to the bottom of the rail (vertically) (by walkboard) rest your ladder there (to catch) and put the ladder on the roof and you're golden. You'll be like a squirell going up and down move the ladder when needed. Boom, roof is done, by the way love standing seam roofs.

Good luck and be safe, by the way what is the white stuff on the ground?

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2019, 04:30:26 PM »
A couple more, google ladder ridge hook. You can also separate the ladder, tit the top rungs together and set it over the ridge, one ladder section laying on the roof on each side, tie off the side opposite you. Tie old shirts to the ladder before the last sheet so you can put it on the previous sheet without scratching to finish up.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2019, 12:15:33 PM »
A couple more, google ladder ridge hook. You can also separate the ladder, tit the top rungs together and set it over the ridge, one ladder section laying on the roof on each side, tie off the side opposite you. Tie old shirts to the ladder before the last sheet so you can put it on the previous sheet without scratching to finish up.

I unfortunately only have one extension ladder on site and can't get another out there until the winter.  So I've got to make one out of the materials I have.  Along the lines of a ladder ridge hook but with dimensional lumber.  Here's what I'm considering:

Scaffolding looks good, add you a 2 by 6 to the bottom of the rail (vertically) (by walkboard) rest your ladder there (to catch) and put the ladder on the roof and you're golden. You'll be like a squirell going up and down move the ladder when needed. Boom, roof is done, by the way love standing seam roofs.
By hanging it off the roof ridge I can keep the scaffold walkway clear.  If that feels too dicey I can try butting it up against the railing using a 2x6 as you suggest.

Good luck and be safe, by the way what is the white stuff on the ground?
Heh, that's on a good day.  Here's what it looked like getting to the weatherport earlier that year:

My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2019, 06:05:35 PM »
The right hand chicken ladder is easier and stronger. Project the hooks up above the top face by 1.5" and put another rung under, downslope, of them to lock them in place from rotating under load  ;)

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2019, 10:03:58 AM »
The right hand chicken ladder is easier and stronger. Project the hooks up above the top face by 1.5" and put another rung under, downslope, of them to lock them in place from rotating under load  ;)

I think I'm reading you Don.  I would turn the hook pieces 90 degrees to get better anchoring to the rails, then add what I labelled a "locking rung".  See the ladder on the left:



I would also add a couple of braces to reduce lateral racking.  The ladder on the right is a refinement on my earlier design.  It has 2x4 treads instead of 2x6 and is supported with 1x4 under each tread.  It is a little more work but I can cut the supports in advance and haul them out so it won't take that much time to assemble.

Edit to add: Up until now I've only been thinking about installing the panels.  The ridge will get some Z flashing and a vented ridge cap.  The ladder on the left with rungs on top will allow me to place the rails on the standing seam panels.  45-degree treads would be much more comfortable but won't allow me to use the ladder once the panels are in place.  That means no brace board either.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 10:26:11 AM by ChugiakTinkerer »
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2019, 01:27:33 PM »
Yup, that's it. When you get to the ridge cap if you need the working room under the ladder screw a 2x or even 2 across the pads on your hook and also high and low on the ladder, this will lift the apex up off the ridge.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2019, 02:53:32 PM »
That's starting to look pretty cumbersome.  The off-the-shelf hooks designed for clamping onto an aluminum ladder are starting to look appealing.  My problem is, I think, they aren't big enough to straddle my vented ridge flashing.



I think I may get a couple anyhow and try to make them work, something like I show in the picture.  I might need to bend them a bit to get the span my ridge needs.

http://www.acrobuildingsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/04/11084-Ladder-Hook-Spec-Sheet.pdf
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2019, 05:55:44 PM »
If you are using the clamp on snow stops I have put them on, run a 2x4 across them then screw some vertical 2x's and another horizontal one up high enough on the roof to stand on and work the ridge. You do need comfortable access to work both sides of the ridge for quite a while to get everything screwed and clipped in for the ridge on standing seam.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2019, 09:10:58 AM »
If you are using the clamp on snow stops I have put them on, run a 2x4 across them then screw some vertical 2x's and another horizontal one up high enough on the roof to stand on and work the ridge. You do need comfortable access to work both sides of the ridge for quite a while to get everything screwed and clipped in for the ridge on standing seam.

Don, thanks for mentioning the clamp-on brackets.  They are something I had no clue about.

That's another way I can go when dealing with the ridge cap.  Build the 2x4 ladder for panel installation and mount brackets near the ridge so I can set hrorizontal 2x4 on either side of the ridge.  Something to ponder, thanks for the suggestions.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline redside

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2019, 08:35:46 AM »
Did you get the metal on the roof yet?  If not, you want to get the Sealey ladder hook which will clear the ridge cap without damage.  Put this on an aluminum ladder and you can move this easily versus wrestling the weight of the 2x homebuilt ladder option (which would work as well, but be more cumbersome if working by yourself).  Be careful the aluminum ladder doesn't scratch your roof (assuming standing seam) by wrapping duct tape several times around the rungs and bottom of side rails (basically where the ladder contacts the roof--you will thank yourself as I learned all this lesson the hard way).

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2019, 09:29:48 PM »
Did you get the metal on the roof yet?  If not, you want to get the Sealey ladder hook which will clear the ridge cap without damage.  Put this on an aluminum ladder and you can move this easily versus wrestling the weight of the 2x homebuilt ladder option (which would work as well, but be more cumbersome if working by yourself).  Be careful the aluminum ladder doesn't scratch your roof (assuming standing seam) by wrapping duct tape several times around the rungs and bottom of side rails (basically where the ladder contacts the roof--you will thank yourself as I learned all this lesson the hard way).

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm almost done with the roof metal.  I've got gable and ridge flashing yet to do.

I'll be getting back out there in a month or so, weather permitting.  And I promise to take more pictures.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2021, 02:43:44 PM »
Here's an update from casa de Tinkerer:

I had sinus surgery in early 2020, delaying getting out to the property until the spring.  Then COVID happened, and we didn't get out at all until September.  We spent a week then getting caught up, and almost got all the roof flashing done.  Doing flashing work on a 12:12 roof is slow going, even with a scaffold.  But we made some progress, so Yay!

I'm retiring in three weeks and we will be focusing a lot more time on the cabin build.  One thing I'm pursuing is installation of a solar power setup with a backup generator.  I'll have to purchase and haul the parts out in the winter, then do the installation in the summer.  That should give me enough time to build a shed for the batteries and generator.  And to go back and read all the threads in the Solar sub-forum comments in the OFF GRID POWER thread in General.

Ah it feels good to be making progress again.  Be chatting soon, CT.

P.S. The Nelchina caribou herd has taken up residence at Lake Louise.  I have never seen so many caribou.  I feel like a grumpy old man complaining about them, but they can really do number on a trail made of packed snow. They're my hippy neighbors, camping out in the meadows and trashing the trails.  >:(
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 03:51:36 PM by ChugiakTinkerer »
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2021, 05:39:36 PM »
Glad to hear you're still pecking away at it. I'm guessing you'll have a good bug season when it warms up with all the droppings around! What are they eating?

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2021, 01:13:52 PM »
Hey Don!

The caribou are eating whatever they can get to by digging into the snow.  Shrubs and moss, I guess.  We'll see about the bugs, but mosquitoes are the greatest nuisance and I don't think they're a factor this time of year.

I'm getting quotes on my solar install and am pondering a shed to house the batteries, electronics, and a generator.  With cold temps being an issue I'll likely have to decide between a gasoline generator or a diesel generator with a heated structure.  There won't be much solar available December through February.  ???

My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2021, 02:54:20 PM »
I have someone wanting to give me a quote here. I think I'm going to hold off for a little bit and see if there are any new incentives coming out of the admin change.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2021, 01:33:08 PM »
The Renewable Energy tax credit was extended by two years in the recent appropriations bill.  So you'll be able to enjoy the same 26% credit in 2021 as was available in 2020.  It will sunset in two years, assuming no congressional action.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2021, 07:19:29 PM »
I retired on Thursday and made a run out to the property with a half-cord of birch firewood on Friday.  I didn't stop working, I just changed bosses! (don't tell SWMBO I said that)

One of the things she wants this summer is an enclosed deck, a veranda if you will.  I'm contemplating something as below.



I'm going for the screen-wrapped porch feel, but want to make it as stable as I reasonably can.  I used Medeek's plugin for generating the walls and putting in the openings.  There are a couple things that I'm concerned about:

1) Do I have enough sheathing on the corners to allow for a reasonably sturdy wall?

2) Should I double up on the king stud in the wall between the windows?  I can frame it as drawn below, I just don't know if I should...



It's a 12x16 structure with 2x4 walls and a 4:10 rafter roof. 
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Don_P

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2021, 03:54:07 AM »
Congrats on retirement!
Go to apawood.com, I think, tha APA's website, and look for their narrow portal frame booklet. There are suggestions for how to frame and sheath narrow sided openings. Their focus is on garage door walls but the principle is the same. I think they run down to a 16" wall section pretty easily. A place for a little woodstove in there would extend the season and might make a place for a larger sheathed corner.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2021, 05:57:51 AM »
Don,

Thank you!  I found the note you describe:

Portal Frame Bracing Without Hold-Down Devices
FOR USE IN CONTINUOUSLY SHEATHED WALLS
Number J740
July 2008

APA also has an online wall bracing calculator.  I'll work my way through the design steps and see what I need to have a "near code-compliant" structure.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2021, 06:00:17 PM »
Hey ChugiakTinkerer. Enjoy your retirement. You are off to a great start with the ability to keep busy. With Covid-19 keeping us from the retirement travel we would have liked to do, we renovated the garage/workshop. New cabinets. Even paint of walls we never took time to paint 35 years ago when we built it. Our retirement was pushed ahead by Covid-19.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2021, 01:29:21 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement MountainDon.

Here's my book report on the APA technical note...

I've incorporated the APA Portal Frame method to ensure we have something that can withstand the wind.  There is a nice write-up on the design and the reasons for it at this JLC article: https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/framing/the-portal-frame-option_o

There are three ways to anchor the wall segment to the floor.  I chose the one where you lap the sheathing over the rim joists by 9.25 inches.  All I have to do is get my T1-11 in 9' panels.  That did require me to upgrade the joists from my intended 2x8 to the deeper 2x10.  I also considered that we may someday want to make this an insulated building, so I switched to 2x6 walls and standard sized window openings.

View from SW:


I took Don_P's advice and made the southeast corner sheltered from the wind.  The prevailing direction is from the southeast, so I'm hoping this makes for a more comfortable space inside.

View from SE:


What I will build is an approximation of a portal frame for a garage opening.  The only thing I am lacking to make it code-compliant is a proper foundation.  But since I am sitting on top of discontinuous permafrost I'll have to settle for less than perfect.  The incremental costs to strengthen the design are fairly minor: use two 2x12s for the opening header, extend the header the full length of the braced wall segment, extend the sheathing to the bottom of the rim joists, add tension straps to the header, and nail the sheathing down on 3" spacing.



My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline Reninco

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2021, 04:24:38 PM »

Tinkerer and other interested parties…
I think there might be a slight misunderstanding of the intent of a shearwall and the capacity that it provides.
The shearwall schedules you see in APA and in code books start with…
The base of a building starts with a large weight (most use concrete because it is economically more feasible and has no water issues; and some are also bolted right to the bedrock – same idea but even cheaper than concrete.
The “wooden” part of the building is attached to the concrete.
That concrete to wood “attachment” is like a cake mix (these parts will make this).
The wood-to-wood “attachment” above the concrete is also like a cake mix - this way gets this result.
The APA stuff is tested for structures much bigger than you are building.  The APA stuff also has “extra” capacity baked in for different wood and structure design.
Thus, the forces and those fasteners and connections are much bigger than you would ever need.
If you adhere to the common nailing schedule of 6 on 6 this will provide you with plenty of capacity to resist any racking from wind.
That includes walls with doors and windows. No double 2xs or straps or bigger headers are needed.
But… yes there is always a but.
But…you will still need to connect your house to a weight of some sort…as the wind will lift and will want to push your cabin. The image shows the “results” of the wind load. One “result” resists overturning and one “result” resists the pushing. 

What weight is nearby…wait for it…wait for it…
Soil.
There are a number of anchors it just depends on your soil type.
https://bbponline.com/landscaping-and-nursery/earth-anchors-and-tree-kits/
https://www.westechrigging.com/duckbill-014x42.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RLLwKQaU0Q&feature=youtu.be

So the next step is how big is the cabin and what’s your estimated peak wind speed?

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 12x16 guest cabin at remote Alaska property
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2021, 06:17:50 AM »
Tinkerer and other interested parties…
I think there might be a slight misunderstanding of the intent of a shearwall and the capacity that it provides.
The shearwall schedules you see in APA and in code books start with…
The base of a building starts with a large weight (most use concrete because it is economically more feasible and has no water issues; and some are also bolted right to the bedrock – same idea but even cheaper than concrete.
The “wooden” part of the building is attached to the concrete.
That concrete to wood “attachment” is like a cake mix (these parts will make this).
The wood-to-wood “attachment” above the concrete is also like a cake mix - this way gets this result.
The APA stuff is tested for structures much bigger than you are building.  The APA stuff also has “extra” capacity baked in for different wood and structure design.
Thus, the forces and those fasteners and connections are much bigger than you would ever need.
If you adhere to the common nailing schedule of 6 on 6 this will provide you with plenty of capacity to resist any racking from wind.
That includes walls with doors and windows. No double 2xs or straps or bigger headers are needed.
But… yes there is always a but.
But…you will still need to connect your house to a weight of some sort…as the wind will lift and will want to push your cabin. The image shows the “results” of the wind load. One “result” resists overturning and one “result” resists the pushing. 

What weight is nearby…wait for it…wait for it…
Soil.
There are a number of anchors it just depends on your soil type.
https://bbponline.com/landscaping-and-nursery/earth-anchors-and-tree-kits/
https://www.westechrigging.com/duckbill-014x42.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RLLwKQaU0Q&feature=youtu.be

So the next step is how big is the cabin and what’s your estimated peak wind speed?

I get your point about the portal frame bracing being overkill when the cabin foundation is only cribbing.  My problem is that our property is located in a part of Alaska that has discontinuous permafrost.  There is the potential for frost heaving and/or subsidence due to melting ice lenses, so my options are to either invest huge sums in thoroughly testing the subsurface for permafrost or to build a structure that floats on top of the soil.  I have chosen the latter.

My model for a surface foundation comes from the Cold Climate Housing Research Center in Fairbanks, Alaska.  They publish research and case studies addressing the issues of thermal efficiency and unstable ground (eg, http://cchrc.org/media/DesignManualforNewFoundationsonPermafrost.pdf).  Anchoring to the ground is a part of the design that I have not included in my discussion or drawings, but is essential to resisting the wind.  I'm planning to use ground anchors like the ones they use on mobile homes, and your comment reminds me that I have not followed up on purchase and installation.

To sum up, I am aware that I am constructing outside the prescriptive standards in the IRC, etc.  I strive to approach the standards as best I can, and make reasonable approximations where I can't.  I'm building for myself with no jurisdictional authority, and accept the consequence for building a non-compliant structure.  But I am striving to remain code compliant wherever I can, and the portal frame bracing method is one that will ensure that the walls will not be a weak point in the construction.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

 

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