Author Topic: Ski Cabin - North-Central Cascades, Washington (Read 21476 times)

bac4uw · « **Reply #25 on:** August 20, 2016, 01:41:13 PM »

Thanks! I'll be out again tomorrow and hope to get the loft plywood finished and, with any luck, the 18" loft side-walls up. Seems doable in my head, but the heat lately really sucks the energy out of me in the afternoons. Next weekend, we head back out with my folks for another 5 days at a rental cabin. My goal is to get the gable walls up, 2 14" LVL beams in place, 2x10 rafters up, and hopefully roof plywood tacked down.

bac4uw · « **Reply #26 on:** September 05, 2016, 07:03:11 AM »

It's been a busy month of building. I took two separate weeks off of work in August to try and get work done on the cabin. I thankfully had a pair of helping hands each time, and more importantly an extra brain when I struggled with cutting the first set of rafters!

Yesterday, I got one side of the roof felt and snow/ice guard installed. With a 12:12 roof, this by far was the least favorite part of building. Maybe with different tools/ladders (experience?) this would be easier, but I was surprised at 1) how slow going this was between moving the ladder and truck, and 2) how sore I was afterwards.

It is scheduled to rain this week, so I put a tarp on the side of the roof without felt and will hopefully finish that next weekend. Maybe even start putting up the metal roof? From here on out, it is weekend-work only to get the cabin dry to the elements.

All things considered, I am pleased with how it is turning out and can say that the many hours of planning were well-served. Only one real dumbo mistake (that I know of!) where I didn't cut the door header supports to the correct length because I had not yet purchased the door. Still fixing...

Here are some pics of the progress:

I wish I had more pictures of us putting up the 2 14" LVL beams, but my hands were full (!) and it was just me and grandpa. This was the step that made him the most anxious, but it was really not that bad getting them up there with just the two of us:

I used a big box of structural screws to screw the LVLs together. It said I didn't need to pre-drill, but the box lied. I could get about a half inch from flush and the drill would quit. We ended up pre-drilling each screw:

I may be mathematically/engineering oriented, but getting the rafter templates correct still cost me $80 in 2x10s!

The dog is impressed with our progress now:

One side of plywood up... and then it poured. Despite tarping, we had lots of water inside:

My trusty canopy didn't fare well through the downpour:

Loft area after plywood is finished:

View from down below:

Grandpa referred to this as the 'dope on a rope'... which was the feeling I had while doing this. Actually, I felt safe and secure... but slooooowwww:

Ice and snow shield was kind of a pain to work with:

Late in the day, I finally finished the felt on one side:

Don_P · « **Reply #27 on:** September 05, 2016, 01:10:10 PM »

The moment your feet leave the ground things slow down dramatically.

If you run the first row of ply and lean out from inside for the first row of ice and water it works better for me most of the time. I then nail down a 2x4 toeboard and work from the topside with my "crew" passing the sheets out from the loft.

Follow the load down from the header under the ridgebeam, through the stacked jacks... to ... need some support under there. Keep following that load down through the main floor walls as well, a few more studs to create vertical load bearing columns all the way to ground. For future building, the upper gable walls should really be framed from floor to roof without the plate across the wall. This is small enough I doubt it is a serious issue but that is a laterally unsupported hinge point.

bac4uw · « **Reply #28 on:** September 05, 2016, 01:53:15 PM »

Thanks Don -- yes, I definitely have a few more support studs to add both in that upper knee wall and perhaps down below. I figured I'd add them later and make the best use of the extra set of hands while I had them. Same deal with the cripple studs above the door.

I read several postings about that hinge point and wondered if there was anything else I could use to strengthen it? Even though it's a small building, would metal straps help?

Wish I had your advice on the ice/snow shield... grandpa and I considered this for a bit, but he nixed the idea so he could help get the plywood done (last day).

Thanks again!
--Bryan

Don_P · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2016, 05:07:29 PM »

Using your help while you got em definitely takes priority. I wasn't sure if you knew to add more cripples, I run for the roof and come back to detail later most of the time.
One way to stiffen that plate in the wall is to run a beam inside across the joint flatways. Lay a 2x10 or 12 across from on top of the sidewall on one side to on top of the opposite sidewall and nail it down well and attach it to the gable endwall, especially at the jacks. A shelf. It will need a couple of legs down to the floor to keep it flat and support the middle. One way to think about it is to mentally rotate the wall flat, like a floor. The "shelf" is acting like a floor girder under joists (your studs). The load is the wind rather than feet. The ends of the girder are on the supports, same here which is why they need to be fastened to the top plates on the side walls very well. Those nails keep the shelf from moving if the wall is pushing against it.

bac4uw · « **Reply #30 on:** September 25, 2016, 05:58:52 AM »

Last weekend working on the cabin was totally deflating. Saturday, I was solo with all three kids and it was absolutely dumping rain. I have felt up on the roof, but had not yet covered the vented ridge... puddles! I did manage to get 4 windows installed, but not an ounce of dry clothing at the end of it. The kids were not impressed and wanted to go home the whole time. Good fun...

The next day, I was gung-ho to get the metal roofing up. I got the first panel installed and said to myself that this was going to be easy. While I have never installed metal roofing, it was quickly apparent with the second panel that me and my supplier had ordered the incorrect screws. Clarification: these screws were correct for installing the trim - but not the decking. We hadn't ordered the decking screws at all. Doh...! Upon realizing this, I shut my mouth for a good 45 minutes and then moved on to sheathing and tacked some plastic up on the ridge to prevent the cabin from becoming a swimming pool the next week.

Despite not getting started working until 11am, yesterday I was able to make verifiable progress and got one side of roof decking laid down. Woke up this morning and could definitely tell that I scrambled up and down a ladder about 50 times! Headed back out there in a bit with the goal of getting the other side done and the ridge cap on. Maybe even the front door? Though, that too looks like it will be a project -- 2x6 walls, but pre-built door jamb is not 2x6. Door jamb extender kit, DIY trim, or take it back?

A few pics from from yesterday:

NathanS · « **Reply #31 on:** September 25, 2016, 07:03:20 AM »

The roof looks great. Those look like the same standing seam panels I'm about to install. How did it go once you were in the field? Did you fold the bottom of the panels under and slide it into a cleat? Any tips? Thanks.

I have every intention of installing 2x4 doors in my 2x6 walls, by the way. Look at the price difference before you decide to return it. The single doors usually have jamb extension kits. I have 3 french doors to install, and those do not have jamb kits. My plan is to remove the brick mold door casing and then simply cut jamb extensions to get everything to the exterior. Depending on the availability of the sill extensions I would even create metal pan flashing for the sill. Flashing details will be important... really flash the rough opening so if the extensions ever leak water runs outside and doesn't rot any wood. The price of those bulk french doors is about $430 vs $1300 for contractor pricing 2x6 doors from my lumber supplier (the sales person I go to even told me the bulk doors are fine, you just have to figure out how to make the extension look nice. I can see how if you were having a contractor do things the increase labor could make the 2x6 doors more cost effective.). Anyway that is just my 2 cents. Let me know what you end up doing.

Don_P · « **Reply #32 on:** September 25, 2016, 08:04:28 AM »

I assume it is a left hand entry door. If so, set it in the opening and see if the door hits the wall before the hinges will bind in an interior e jamb. It may work to interior e jamb them which is easier, sometimes you can get away with it on a ~90 degree swing. I agree with Nathan, it is probably worthwhile to work with the existing jamb.

bac4uw · « **Reply #33 on:** September 25, 2016, 07:22:03 PM »

Yes -- left hand entry door... I'll try and make it work and fix it up on the inside. Thanks for the advice! I temporarily screwed the door in this afternoon, as I had to use the last sheet of OSB elsewhere:

Nathan -- yep, Snap Loc standing seam panels. The easy part is installing them... the hard part seems to be getting all set up to install them! I did not get the other side started/done today because my wife had the truck until 2pm - by that time I was neck deep into another project, blood sugar was low (T1d), and it was Sunday afternoon. I framed up the walls for the 2x4 bathroom bump out instead:

Not sure the bump-out is worth the extra effort, but figured I'd try to get my full 200 ft^2!

Back to the roofing: I did not fold the bottom of the panels as the guttered eave trim I/we purchased did not allow for it. Instead, I hung it slightly over the trim. If I had the appropriate eave trim, I would rather have folded the panels as it appears to produce a cleaner fit. My panels are slightly raised in the middle despite my pushing down during the install. I've noticed the same fit on numerous other cabins around me with similar metal panels.

Honestly, I don't think I have any tips. Other than getting set up, installing these panels is a piece of cake. My roof line is simple, cut to fit width-wise (18' plus a bit), and without any penetrations (now). The 'plus a bit' might come in handy as the panels are 12" wide, but have a 3/4" lip that the screws go into. When you get to that last panel, that 3/4" lip needs to rest somewhere that you can screw into. I used compensating gable trim (2" wide) on the end to account for whatever slop I had, and was able to screw right into the plywood roof deck.

Lastly - very surprised at how comfortable I now feel on a 12:12 roof. I have a cleat mounted to the middle of the ridge beam and always wear a harness. I remember thinking - 'damn, this safety equipment is expensive': well worth the money! This was the most anxiety-producing part of the project, and I still hate being up there, but it's no longer terrifying.

ChugiakTinkerer · « **Reply #34 on:** September 26, 2016, 10:58:23 AM »

Love the fall colors starting to show. With the roof on that side it's easy to picture the place with siding. Almost there!

Kids haven't asked yet to have the zip line running out of the loft window?

bac4uw · « **Reply #35 on:** October 10, 2016, 09:17:32 PM »

Stevens Pass just posted today that the first snow of the season is upon us. It's only a matter of time before that trickles down to where I'm at!

I finished the roof decking two weekends ago, and at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon realized that my ridge cap was not going to span the gap that I needed it to. Doh! To call this a mistake or an oversight might imply that I had put some thought into the matter... though, I did not. I bought an off-the-shelf hemmed vented ridge cap and assumed it would work. Due to the extra width of the ridge beam, it did not! In any case, I'm ordering a larger ridge cap that should arrive in the next week or so to officially end my time on the roof.

I finished the sheathing (thankfully) and installed all of the remaining windows last weekend. Next weekend should be flashing, house wrap, and finishing up the bird blocks between the rafters (another project). We are highly considering a metal siding with a rain screen underneath. I am a self-admitted hater of painting, so galvalume metal siding seems appropriate.

Pending projects are the loft stairwell and electrical, not necessarily in that order. I also purchased a wood stove this evening, which should arrive in December - around the time that ski season will be upon us...

Some progress pics:

The back side, with bathroom bumpout:

Back-side casement window opening in loft:

Front-side loft casement window (still need to add more support studs):

Bird block... another project!

Even with pre-built window boxes, my two youngest realizing that building (and hammering) isn't easy:

bac4uw · « **Reply #36 on:** October 10, 2016, 09:33:33 PM »

Also, determined on Saturday that gutters will be in my immediate (rather than distant) horizon. It poured cats and dogs and both the ground around my cabin and the rivers around us swelled up with so much rain. We get 90"+ of precipitation annually where I'm at... so need to direct that water where I want it to go. I also need to find some gutters that wont rip off of the house in February when the snow/ice is upon us...

I was planning on doing rainwater catchment (next summer), but that might just creep up as a project I need to do sooner.

w1ck3tt · « **Reply #37 on:** October 11, 2016, 07:01:59 AM »

Quote from: bac4uw on October 10, 2016, 09:33:33 PM

I was planning on doing rainwater catchment (next summer), but that might just creep up as a project I need to do sooner.

I did this on my barn so we can have running water in our camper while building the house. If I can save you some time in the research, let me tell you about first flush water diverter. The roof collects dust and debris, and if you are catching water for anything but watering your garden, I highly recommend doing this. The idea is that the first few minutes of rain washes all the junk off the roof, and instead of your barrel collecting that first bit of water, it drains into a downspout with a trickle valve on it. Theres also a ball in that downspout....so, as the water fills the downspout, and all the filth catches at the bottom, the ball rises to a stop, where a diverter pipe would be attached, that leads to your rain barrel/collection tank. I have a set of 4 330 gallon tanks that are connected in series, and both sides of my building feed into the 4 tanks. The water is clean (I wouldn't drink it though) and we use it for bathing and washing things down, etc. I wrapped my tanks in black plastic too to prevent algae growth, and it so far has worked better than we imagined.

I also added a pump and a pressure tank so the camper sinks/shower have a constant pressurized flow.

Heres a screenshot of the items I ordered from Amazon to do this...I will get pictures of my setup tonight and post them on my posting as well for anyone that wants to see it.

ChugiakTinkerer · « **Reply #38 on:** October 11, 2016, 09:15:59 AM »

Quote from: bac4uw on October 10, 2016, 09:17:32 PM

...

We are highly considering a metal siding with a rain screen underneath. I am a self-admitted hater of painting, so galvalume metal siding seems appropriate.

...

I was working on a fence repair yesterday at my house and noticed the painted T1-11 on that side is in need of attention, again. I share your interest in metal siding. I like the idea of having a recreational place that I will be able to recreate at, not spend all my free time doing maintenance and repair work.

bac4uw · « **Reply #39 on:** October 11, 2016, 08:07:08 PM »

"I like the idea of having a recreational place that I will be able to recreate at,..."

My feeling exactly! I like the look of metal siding, especially when accented by cedar wood trim... so that is what we are working towards. The functionality and no need to paint are bonuses.

The info on rainwater catchment is great. As I indicated, this was a project that I had in my head as "in the Spring"... but I am going to minimally install gutters soon in order to manage the runoff. Love the first flush valve and will read more on it. I am aiming for potable water, so coarse filter, treat, fine filter is what I have in my mind as the process to get there. Doing multi-night kayak trips, I've filtered some pretty nasty looking water for drinking and am constantly amazed at the decent water quality I get out of the other end.

bac4uw · « **Reply #40 on:** October 16, 2016, 07:26:57 PM »

As I drive to the cabin, the tops of the mountains have been dusted with snow lately -- I figure I have 4-6 weeks left before most outdoor work grinds to a halt. Fortunately, I'm getting close. I got the door 'officially' installed... before it was just tacked in with a few screws. It actually closes and locks.

Between the chaos that we call children, my wife and I also were able to get the metal drip edge installed and about half the house wrap up today:

It feels good to be somewhat dry to the elements. Upon purchasing the 3' wide Tyvek, I remember laughing to myself at the 9' roll and thinking about how unwieldy it would be to install. After circling my cabin three times today and moving the ladder, I'm now thinking the 9' roll was not so crazy! Going to get some galvalum metal siding next week, along with furring strips to build out the rainscreen.

I contacted the company that supplies electricity to our area and said I would need them to come out around December 3rd to hook up power. I have not started electric at all, but sometimes having a date on a calendar can be a great motivator... particularly when there are financial consequences involved. I will hire a local-ish electrician to come out and supervise most of my work and hook up the panel, which I can appreciate may not be an enviable position to put a professional in.

Lastly, for interior siding we're vacillating between 1x6 T&G pine (~ $0.45 / linear foot), T&G cedar ($0.69 / linear foot), and T&G beetle kill (blue) pine (~ $0.59 / linear foot). For a while, I was considering installing some higher end plywood as interior siding... but I think I've talked myself out of that. The T&G prices are all fine with me, so all of that being equal -- any thoughts/recommendations? I personally like the beetle kill, then cedar, then pine... but it's not a strong difference in preference. I'm mostly considering how/whether to contrast it with flooring/ceiling cover.

azgreg · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2016, 05:57:21 AM »

Looks great. Do you have any more pics of the PWF foundation?

bac4uw · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2016, 06:21:57 AM »

I set up a GoPro (video on post #23), so I have a bunch of still shots of us putting together the PWF. Here are the first, middle, and last from the first big work day. I pre-built the PWF in sections at home using 2x6 ground contact rated pressure treated wood with a 2x8 footing, treating all cuts with that nasty copper stuff (CCA), and fastened with expensive stainless steel 16D nails. Over that, we stainless steel nailed marine grade plywood on as sheathing. Lastly, we stapled on 6mil plastic over the outside and inside. I still need to add some ventilation...

I basically followed Figure 8 here: http://www.hillspg.com/pdfs/Perm%20Wood%20Foundation.pdf

The only thing I didn't follow directly is overlapping the OSB over the marine grade plywood. I could have, but I built the foundation such that it was strictly 200 square feet and this would have pushed that slightly over.

azgreg · « **Reply #43 on:** October 17, 2016, 07:03:48 AM »

Thank you very much.

bac4uw · « **Reply #44 on:** October 24, 2016, 08:14:32 PM »

This weekend I got my first bid to hook up the electrical service panel. *My* opening bid was to install switches (5), outlets (13-14), and light fixtures (10) and run the circuits to the main service panel. My hope was to have a certified electrician take it from there and hook up the panel, ground rods, and exterior components for an overhead install. The electrician kindly came out and took stock of what I was trying to do and, perhaps as expected, decided that he didn't want the complication of having to work *with* me. It would be worth his time if he could do the whole job... for $4350 out the door (includes time, material, L&I permit, tax).

I was not too surprised by that quote... but it's still quite a ways from where I was starting from in my head. And relatively speaking, about the same price for all of the lumber, wall and floor and roof sheathing, and metal roofing I used to construct the cabin shell. He didn't try to make my system much more complicated than the wiring plan I had sketched up, other than to increase my panel size from a planned 125A to 200A (again as expected, but minor cost increase). He noted that he and a partner would get it completed within a couple of days.

I am going to seek out additional quotes, but given my location I feel like my options will be somewhat limited unless I can get friends to call in favors. Alternatively, I might try to negotiate on a scaled back install just to get it in place and then I'll come in and wire the rest of the circuits as planned.

Hmmm....

pmichelsen · « **Reply #45 on:** October 25, 2016, 05:32:14 AM »

I would just do the work in reverse order. Have a certified electrician do everything from the pole to the panel. I think to pass inspection you need one outlet hooked up, could be below the panel. And then you take it from there.

ChugiakTinkerer · « **Reply #46 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:08:42 AM »

If you think you may want the option of having a generator for backup power, now would be the time to put in an isolation switch. Something to consider in the event of an extended power outage.

bac4uw · « **Reply #47 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:51:59 AM »

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on October 25, 2016, 07:08:42 AM

If you think you may want the option of having a generator for backup power, now would be the time to put in an isolation switch. Something to consider in the event of an extended power outage.

I cringed when I read this, but that is a very sensible comment. The back story here is that I despise the electric company who will provide service to the cabin. They are the same company that provides service to our main house and we lose power as if we were in a third world country (kidding, sort of, it's bad)... for long periods of time. Our electricity is routed through a notoriously unreliable substation at the main house, but haven't heard much about reliability issues where the cabin is at.

When I discovered that this company was the electric service provider, I began to research solar installations in rainy / cloudy climates. In fact, I told my wife that if the combination of hiring an electrician and paying the energy company for installation approached $8-10k - I would just go with a solar install for the cabin at the expense of a few comfort items/amenities. Rekindled those thoughts this morning...

I have a couple other leads on electricians and will significantly pare back the install specs I give out, with the idea that I can finish out each circuit after the install.

OlJarhead · « **Reply #48 on:** October 25, 2016, 08:14:28 AM »

A home owner can do their own wiring. You can do everything but bring in the service. It isn't hard either. Something to consider.

bac4uw · « **Reply #49 on:** October 25, 2016, 08:32:23 AM »

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 25, 2016, 08:14:28 AM

A home owner can do their own wiring. You can do everything but bring in the service. It isn't hard either. Something to consider.

Yes, I agree... that's kind of where I'm headed at this point as I price out the materials and consider how much of my time it would take (vs. paying someone else). It does not look like WA state L&I requires that a certified electrician performs the work... just that my plan gets submitted and approved before work commences. So... submit a full plan, or the basic plan (and come in afterwards)?

I still have a little PTSD about all of the river rocks I encountered when digging the foundation. I wonder how challenging it will be to get an 8' copper rod or two into the ground vertically (with the proper tools)?