Old guns?

[OlJarhead]

I thought there was a thread a while back about old guns someone was restoring and it just happens that I am in the process of refinishing an old Mauser action 30-06 that my step father just gave to me.  I'd started hunting with it some 25+ years ago and he had already used it some 40 years so it was an older rifle that he thought was originally a military rifle that was 'sporterized'.  If that's the case the work was superb!

Anyway, I hunted with it off and on for a few years than didn't hunt for a long spell and when I went back I was using my 7mm and the old '06 was back with Dad.  Now that I have it I've decided to strip the stock and refinish it.


Right side after stripping with a citrus based stripper and some washing, scrubbing and finally 400 grit sanding


Left side


Stained


Opposite side stained


Detail



Now I just need to wait for the stain to completely dry and then I'll need to coat it.  It was originally very shiny so I'm thinking of using Spar Varathane as it will give a deep shine like the original but also a very good protective surface for all weather use.

[MountainDon]

I did a similar refurbish a while back with a WWII 8MM Czech Mauser. Posted some pictures someplace here. Original military specs. There were a whole lot of various old bolt action military rifles put through the "sporterizing" process. Some better than others. I still have it but it now has a variable power pistol scope on it. That was to enable placing the scope in the original rear site position to avoid drilling (to keep it more original). It's reasonably accurate, much better since my cataract surgery    

Here's where I started a thread with the scope mounted.

( I should use it more. After all I have almost 2000 rounds of surplus 8 MM ammo      )

[OlJarhead]

This action is a bit rough in spots (I'll do some pics) and shows evidence of the original 'stripper clip' ramp for loading so I'm thinking the receiver is in fact an old milspec receiver that someone changed.  My guess, and it's only a guess, is that someone swapped out the barrel when they sporterized the rifle since the barrel is clearly a 'hunting' barrel.  I'll get some pics.

Need to do some rust work on it but so far I've done a lot of cleaning and tomorrow plan the varathane phase   I'm pretty stoked!

[hpinson]

Not really an old gun, but I started a project last year to convert a Marlin 336 with a damaged barrel to a brush gun with a shorter 16 1/2" barrel.  Got to the point where I shortened the barrel, and re-crowned, but then got sidetracked and have not finished. I would like to pick up again.  Need to blue the barrel next. Took a few pics:

https://www.facebook.com/hpinson/media_set?set=a.10200540937504381.1073741826.1186661613&type=3

I was following this thread as a model:

http://www.ncgunowners.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10689

Don, you would not by any chance have access to a barrel vise?  I need to re-attach the barrel, and not damage the new blue finish.

[hpinson]

You mentioned 8mm. At one point I had a Remington 8mm Magnum rifle, which was my dads originally, bought new in 1978 for travel in northern Canada.  Boy did that kick.   Lately the ammo was hard to come by so you had to save the brass and reload. I traded it to my friend for helping with that solar well pump I put in a few years back.  He uses it for elk in Colorado now. It's great for that. But shooting it sure does beat you up.

[MountainDon]

Don, you would not by any chance have access to a barrel vise?  I need to re-attach the barrel, and not damage the new blue finish.

Only one that is for an AR15


Oh yeah, the 8MM does have a kick! Maybe that is why I don't fire it more, now that you mention it.  It makes me wonder what it felt like to be in a battle with one of these.

[OlJarhead]

I have been going back and forth on what type of finish to use and I finally found what I think is the answer (though admittedly it just confirmed what I was thinking...):

Spar varnishes are good choices for gun stocks. I've used them, and they work well. They were originally made to protect the wooden spars of ocean-going sailing ships, so you can be sure they are weather and water resistant. Any polyurethane finish will do well too, but chose a polymer based on "IPDI" (isophorone diisocyanate) instead of "TDI" (toluene diisocyanate) if you can. They will both give you great protective films, but the IPDI polymers are FAR more resistant to UV degradation from sunlight.

NO oil based finish (linseed, tung, etc) will give really good moisture resistance. Adding a polyurethane to an oil finish will upgrade their water resistance in proportion to the percentage of polyurethane in the vehicle.

Acrylics will also generally improve oil finishes, but not always. It depends on the choice of acrylic: Some are tough, some are brittle. Some are durable, some aren't. It all depends on what problem the chemist was trying to solve when he selected the acrylic.

You can take the preceeding to the bank: I am a retired polymer chemist with about 45 years in the paint and coatings industry, and know whereof I speak.

This was in a gun forum and as soon as I read it I knew I was going with Spar varathane!  It's what I was thinking anyway because of its weather toughness and this old rifle had a glossy finish to start with so I'm going to try the spray I think and start today

[hpinson]

That begs a question. I used spar varnish, Varathene, to protect my outhouse door.  The door is south facing, and it was very attractive after applied.   On application The wood was sanded bare, and the varnish applied.  After less than a year the finish started to bubble and flake.  What was I doing wrong, or was I just expecting too much of the finish with the constant south sun exposure?

[MountainDon]

expecting too much of the finish with the constant south sun

IMO, yes. Here in the SW I believe any clear finish on exterior wood is a waste of product and time unless it receives no direct sun.

[OlJarhead]

Ye Ol' ought six -- just with stain and no plates (butt etc)


Other side


First coat of spar varathane sprayed on.  Now I wait 90 mins before a light sanding and the second coat (according to the can).


Close up


Action


Action





You can see some wear on the receiver etc but the rifle works well and I figure a good cleaning and thin coat of CLP and it ought to last a lot longer

[OlJarhead]

Using the aerosol Spar Varathane (Helmsman) has proven a little more time consuming than brush on (at least in my experience).  Perhaps because it contains more moisture in order to be sprayed?  Who knows???  Anyway the instructions were to spray a coat on every 90 mins or so but to wait 72hrs if you had to go longer and to sand wich is contrary to the spread/paint on stuff which says 2-4hrs.  So I prayed on three coats and waited 24 hrs to sand with 220grit and then 400 grit and sprayed a 4th coat on.  I plan to leave it as is for the weekend as I want to bore sight the scope and get to the range but after I'll probably work on the stock some more.

[OlJarhead]

4 coats of Spar Varathane


I'd like to give it a few more as I can see some areas that could use some work but for now I'm loving it!


Bore Sighting the 3x9


Got the 3x9 dialed in -- this is an upgrade from the original 4x weaver that was on the rifle for the last several decades




For now it's ready for the range though it will sit for at least 48 hours before firing.  I also need to do the 'dollar bill' test on the floating barrel to ensure it isn't making contact with the stock now that I've done all this work but for now I'm pretty darn happy and dying to take it out and shoot it again   Specially since it has a MUCH better scope on it now.

[MountainDon]

Almost too shiny to take it out of the house and use it.   

[OlJarhead]

LOL I was looking at my 7mm and realized it's factory coating is actually deeper than my 4 coats of Spar on the '06 so while I love it now I still plan to add more.

On a side note it passed the dollar test too!

[OlJarhead]

Took the rifle out and tried to zero it.  Was impacting to the left and low at 100 yards so worked the windage until I was getting close but could not get the elevation to change.  After a lot of fiddling I decided the reticle must have been damaged when the rifle the scope was originally on was dropped so I bought a nice Redfield and mounted it.  Got it bore sighted and discovered I need taller mounts for it!  The bolt is about 1/.8th of an inch from clearing the scope so I'll need to get some taller mounts and start over.  At least the Redfield scope seems very nice and I like the turrets a lot.

[Adam Roby]

Kind of off topic... but still gun related.

I know nothing about guns, being Canadian we have very little rights with this respect.
I used to be allowed to own a gun in the states, but since 911 I can no longer purchase any rifles.
I was considering a high powered hunting rifle, 22 cal.  They have ones that can take down deer.  I don't want to spend too much since it will stay at the land (once I have something permanent).  This would be for target practice, and also hunting small game on my land.

Anyone have any experience or recommendations?
I am thinking of something like this.

[OlJarhead]

Anything less than 25 cal in a cartridge rifle is normally not legal for hunting deer though I know a lot of guys in WA use 243's I think it's because the limit here is above .22cal but I'd need to check.

That being said an air rifle in 22 cal shouldn't be considered unless it's pushing that pellet at 3000fps.

Having been raised in Canada and knowing my share of Canucks I'm not sure why you think you can't own a long gun as they are still quite legal.  Sure the process is a bit convoluted but long gun registry was abandoned and many many people hunt up there.  There are probably a lot more guns per capita than many realize up there.  You just can't use them for defence.  If I were living back in Canada I'd get something more traditional like the 30-06 as it's a good all around caliber and I know a LOT of big game hunters that use them.  Of course, being here and having no need to worry about the arcane laws of Canada (and I am a US citizen born and bred) I can own several and have my 7mm for those times I want it, or a .22 for those etc etc etc.....

But I'm going to hunt with this old gun this year and maybe many to come since I love the 30-06 and it doesn't beat me up the way my 7mm does!

[Adam Roby]

I admit the "information" I have all comes from hearsay from friends or my brother-in-law who does armored transport and owns a handgun.  I just read up a couple of articles and now I think the strictness mainly exists with handguns and other "restricted weapons".  As Canadians we are not allowed to carry handguns unless we have a job requiring one and then require special permits.  I didn't find much about shooting a rifle on your own land though...  still need to read some.

In any event, my land in on US soil, so I would probably want to own something there.  I will have a read on the NY laws for non-residents... still the air rifles have advanced so much that they do seem interesting and do not require any licensing that I am aware of in the US anyways.

Love your guns fella's...  maybe one day I will have the pleasure of actually firing one of these things (largest I have ever fired was a 22 rifle).

I am a large bore rifle virgin....
 

[hpinson]

Agree- I don't think there is any ban on long rifles in Canada at the moment, though I believe this was tried in the recent past, and proved untenable.  I do remember restrictions on "black" rifles and shotguns and barrels under a certain length (18"?  ), and semi-automatic weapons.  By black, I mean black color as in the stock, hardware, or barrel.  Examples would be black short barrel "Defender" shotguns, and semiauto AR's. Maybe someone who knows could clarify a bit.

The natives that I knew in NWT, Yukon, and Ontario seemed to favor 30-06 and 30-30 for moose and deer.  Lots of Marlin and Browning lever rifles, and Remington Model 700s. Ammunition was readily available.  For deer 30-30 or .308 was the choice and for elk or moose 30-06 or 7mm Mag. About everyone carried at least a Marlin 336 lever rifle, or 12GA shotgun in their boat or plane, for bear protection.

What OlJarhead said about .22 and air guns + really they used for target practice, plinking, and for shooting very small game-- very fun and affordable to practice and improve with.  I'll add that .22 LR ammunition is currently exceedingly difficult to find, at least in the US.  When you do find it, prices often are way up. It's been that way for a few years and the situation really does not seem to be improving.  There has been more interest in the high FPS air guns because of this, as the pellet ammunition is readily available.

[hpinson]

I am a large bore rifle virgin....

Adam, may I highly recommend a Marlin 1895 lever gun, chambered in Govt. .45-70.   

Not sure I would leave it on your land though!

[OlJarhead]

Unfortunately my reading on the subject of Canadians (or foreigner) is that you cannot own a rifle in the USA unless a legal resident.  You can however, get permission to carry one down for a recognized shooting event.

With that being said I do not believe black powder is limited at all and there are some great black powder guns easily obtained in the US.  The old cap and ball colts make self defence possible albeit not as reliable as modern guns but every bit as deadly if loaded properly (average shots in a gun fight is basically 1 so the issue of limited shots isn't really that much of an issue.  Holiwierd makes people think otherwise but it's unfounded).  There are also great options for both scatter guns as well as hunting rifles.

Something to ponder???

Finally, there are some air rifles in pistol calibers (.357 etc) that I've heard are quite deadly.  I'd look into those if you can't own something better in the US as a Canuck.

[MountainDon]

In NM at least we have special black powder hunting seasons. If hunting is a goal look into that.  Black powder rifles have fewer regulations for purchase. I have some and they all have been delivered to my door, no FFL license required. (All "older style cap locks, with one flintlock as a "work in progress". Slow progress. ) I am not sure how the US black powder reg's are written as far as non residents go, though.  Black powder rifles are also sort of fun to target shoot with. Though you do get a little dirty.  Not what I would call a prime self defense weapon.  Revolvers are also available under the same more relaxed rules.

[OlJarhead]

Just ordered a set of high rise rings.  Should prove interesting as I've not used them before but imaging once zeroed they should be good and hey, they will allow sighting through the rings for using the open sights on close targets -- like when that bear is on the porch

[UK4X4]

I had one of these in 0.22,
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_S510_Xtra_FAC_Sidelever_PCP_Air_Rifle/2498

Not cheap, powerful 10 shot magazine it would pierce 3/4" ply on the first few shots and fully penetrate to the back for 20plus shots, bought mine in 2006ish so sure they've improved since then

I used to hunt rabbits birds and ground squirels with it in the US, with Heavyweight pointed pellets they'd go straight through, then went to heavy weight dum dums...dead on the spot.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Baracuda_Hunter_Extreme_Pellets_22_Cal_19_09_Grains_Hollowpoint_200ct/1047

I think you could easily hit and kill a small deer, but it may be a long death, its a small caliber, if you miss the heart or major vein, it could be a long and slow death to the animal.

Rabbits etc, no issues at all, certainly big enough for small game

[rick91351]

Hey my Canadian friends I so agree with the black powder guns.  Very popular here especially out west.  They like all weapons have evolved into a lot more user friendly.  I have a lot of friends that shoot them.  Fact my wife is an excellent marksman and she learned from her her dad and brothers. They all belonged to black powder clubs.  She won shooting matches as a young woman.  Today she is a very steady marksman.  To be truthful I have never shot one, never wanted to shoot one.  (I have my reasons)  But I can walk in to any sporting goods store in my state and buy one right off the shelf and all the accouterments that go with it.  They will not even look at my drivers license nor back ground check but black powder is a whole different world of shooting. (One of my reasons.) 

If you were interested in hunting in Canada and know a few that do.  However I think they hunt in BC or the wheat fields of Alberta.  I have not been in contact with them for several years. Only thing they have told me is the handgun thing is a big no no!!!  They have to take a very strict class in hunter safety and gun ownership and double lock their firearms or something like that.  Fact I have a lot of friends from the states that go moose hunting in Canada.  True they are guided and limited in amount of clients and tags.  If you were looking at hunting in Canada as a Canadian citizen I would follow OJ's 30-06 or my favorite .270 both about the same gun.  The 06's are a little more versatile.  270 will shoot a little different.  I hunt with both and like both of them.  No I love both of them.  Once in a while something comes along and it is just right....  that cartage is one of those. I hate getting beat up by the big magnum rounds.  Fact I can load some 06 rounds or 270 rounds that will start to make you flinch.  That sort of takes away the fun of it when your just target shooting.

As far as the air rifles I shot them when I was a kid about 55 years ago.  I had a lot of fun with them and learned how to shoot very well.  We could shoot rabbits and ground squirrels all day.  Pellets were cheap, but then 22 shells were as well.  I am now starting to put one or two back on my shopping list!  One for me & Ellen for sure.  They would be so handy over in the orchard keeping the squirrels and chipmunks thinned out.  We do have a rule around here we do not shoot birds.....  the cat is hard enough on them.  I would also like to have one for the grandkids when they come up and visit.  Oldest grandson is hunting age with a real firearm.  Granddaughter is about out of the BB gun stage and mature enough.  That said they are not a toy and they can be fatal if you happen to hit the wrong target.  So a proper site picture is very very important.   But they are a great gun to teach kids to shoot.  As far as deer no never would unless I and the family was starving.  On the other hand I own my uncle's 22 from way way back. Was said to have poached a lot of deer back in the depression days.  Lot of people borrowed it, no questions asked.