I have the land, the survey, and a little money. Any build ideas?

[themodernist]

Here's my story.  I own a buildable lot in a safe residential Southeastern Michigan suburb.  I already have a completed recent survey.  I do not have to pay city water tap fees.  Septic is not allowed.  I'm immediately near electrical and telephone lines.

Minimum Square footage is 750ft.  Maximum first floor square footage (house footprint) for my lot is approximately 1,900 square feet, height maximum is 25 feet. 

The building inspectors here are tyrants and loosely follow the IBC 2009.  Architect stamped plans are required to begin building.  My budget is tiny, sub $50k.  I do not believe any architect would bother with such a small budget, and I do not blame them.  I mostly like modern architecture but do enjoy converted barns as well.  However, this is likely immaterial considering my small budget. 

That leaves me with buying stamped plans (I do not believe the ones on this site are stamped?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.) or possibly buying a pre-engineered and stamped steel framed building or barn and outfitting it.  I would use a slab as my foundation.  Trailer homes are not allowed.  RV's are not allowed.  I do not have a family.  I presently live close to the building site so; the struggle of driving back and forth from a distant site is eliminated. 

Does anyone have some insight, tips, or advice on how I could build a house given these conditions? 

I have read many excellent owner built threads.  However, many of these are located in more rural areas with few or no building codes.   

Thank you very much for your help. 

[Tickhill]

I guess my first question is why would you want to live in such a restricted, controlled area anyway? I can understand wanting/having to live near place of employment but surely you can find something in a less covenant rich environment. I would try and find some other city/county and then sell it.

[Don_P]

You'll need more in the kitty, sorry, reality check number one. The plans here are not stamped and are non code. Architects and engineers are licensed by the state, there is little reciprocity, you need one with a MI stamp. Review the first paragraphs of chapter 3 of your state's building code. The model code, which they may exceed, says that only those portions of the building that fall outside of the prescriptions of the code need to be designed by a registered design professional. They can be tougher than that and require a stamp on all plans... but I would research that in a friendly way with the building official. Do not get off on the wrong foot. Of the two I would use an engineer, architects tend to be generalists where engineers tend to be better grounded in specifics, yes that was a broad brush. An RDP who has an intern might be a good fit, small projects are a good training tool. Go ahead and draw what you want, this will save billable hours if they aren't starting from scratch. The folks here can help get you close if you like.

[UK4X4]

stamped plans wise....I did my own plans based on code and copius questions to Don on the engineering side.

the house its self passed muster with the permit office but they wanted signed off foundation plans...

I sent the engineer the plans he made 2 red line comments and signed them off...........

First time arround I had some idiot copying and pasting my dwgs in autocad onto his headed paper and charging me dwg from scratch prices....we parted ways quite quickly

so insure you know what the costs will be upfront

So plans can be drawn by you -to code and then just get them checked and signed and save all the drafting fees.

I bought plans from here to get an idea of the dwgs needed to present the permit office.

Its quite a time consuming part for  a newbe, but I learnt loads and enjoyed the experience.....cost saving was arround 5K usd

[themodernist]

I guess my first question is why would you want to live in such a restricted, controlled area anyway? I can understand wanting/having to live near place of employment but surely you can find something in a less covenant rich environment. I would try and find some other city/county and then sell it.

Hi Tickhill,

Thank you for your reply I could indeed sell.  However, I will not find anything for less money.  Also a new survey would likely need to be completed; thus raising the price again. 

[themodernist]

You'll need more in the kitty, sorry, reality check number one.

Don_P thank you for your help.  By this statement, I'm guessing this means more money right?  If so I figured just as much.  I was hoping to be able to reach the dried in phase sub $50k but do you believe this is not possible?  Thank you

The plans here are not stamped and are non code. Architects and engineers are licensed by the state, there is little reciprocity, you need one with a MI stamp. Review the first paragraphs of chapter 3 of your state's building code. The model code, which they may exceed, says that only those portions of the building that fall outside of the prescriptions of the code need to be designed by a registered design professional. They can be tougher than that and require a stamp on all plans... but I would research that in a friendly way with the building official. Do not get off on the wrong foot. Of the two I would use an engineer, architects tend to be generalists where engineers tend to be better grounded in specifics, yes that was a broad brush. An RDP who has an intern might be a good fit, small projects are a good training tool. Go ahead and draw what you want, this will save billable hours if they aren't starting from scratch. The folks here can help get you close if you like.

Thank you again.  This was my understanding about the code as well; that only items falling outside the general building code need to be stamped by an architect or engineer.  However, since this is in a residential area I will have to present the proposed grading of the land for water run off.  Perhaps the inspectors will be appeased by stamped foundation plans? 

For this task would hiring an hourly structural engineer be my best bet?  Or is there another engineer type that should be used for stamped foundation plans and reviewing my self made house plans/blueprints? 

Thank you very much for your help. 

[themodernist]

stamped plans wise....I did my own plans based on code and copius questions to Don on the engineering side.

the house its self passed muster with the permit office but they wanted signed off foundation plans...

I sent the engineer the plans he made 2 red line comments and signed them off...........

First time arround I had some idiot copying and pasting my dwgs in autocad onto his headed paper and charging me dwg from scratch prices....we parted ways quite quickly

so insure you know what the costs will be upfront

So plans can be drawn by you -to code and then just get them checked and signed and save all the drafting fees.

I bought plans from here to get an idea of the dwgs needed to present the permit office.

Its quite a time consuming part for  a newbe, but I learnt loads and enjoyed the experience.....cost saving was arround 5K usd

Hi UK4X4, thank you for your reply.  I'm guessing that a structural engineer is whom you would want to stamp foundation and building plans?  Thank you. 

[Don_P]

Your ballpark number felt light so I was just warning you. Once you have plans you can do a stick by stick takeoff of materials and/or get bids to get some real numbers, it is just a guess at this point.

You can shop for an engineer for anything necessary, for me I do it hourly for just the items I need. I had some work done a couple of months ago through an intern whom I really enjoy working with. It is going to vary but just for a ballpark he is $90/hr and does the bulk of the work and it is reviewed by his boss at $120/hr. If the site plan is the hangup there might be some options, this varies by state. I went ahead and got our Registered Land Disturber certificate through the state, the reference materials were all online as was the test. The reference book describes how to deal with grading and water/erosion issues. For us somebody on the job needs to hold that certificate anyway. One of my excavators carries it, another did not so it made sense to just get it for myself... in other words it might be that your grading contractor can provide that or it might be that you can do it.

[themodernist]

Very excellent post Don_P thank you!  The information about gaining a Register Land Disturber certificate was definitely intriguing.  Thank you again. 

[MushCreek]

I would think you could get a small house dried in for $50K. There's a lot of expense after that point, though. If you're inspectors are tyrants, as you stated, you'd better check into what they will allow you to do. Some areas don't allow things like electrical and plumbing to be done by an unlicensed homeowner. If I had had to hire out those things, my costs would have gotten out of reach. Also check to see how long they will give you to complete your home. Some areas have tight restrictions; as little as a year. Here in SC, I can take as long as I want, as long as I show 'some progress' every 6 months. Building a house takes longer than you would think unless you have help.

[fcpnorman]

I have been looking at plans, and I priced out the lumber package as suggested by the plans designer. It is a 780 square foot single story cabin, with 2 bedrooms and one bath. Open concept with a series of clerestory windows. Very simple design with a 6:12 pitch. If the roof pitch is increased there would be room for a loft as well. The lumber package at my local yard( Northern California $$$) was $16,000. That included everything to dry in and drywall- no plumbing, foundation, electrical. No fees, school fees, fire sprinklers- etc.

I am still planning as well- I have 2.5 acres that will require an off the grid build. I know this is blasphemy- but there are some really nice manufactured homes out there. Kit Homebuilders West is one that I am also considering. They are much better built than what you probably are thinking of. 2x6 exterior walls, high insulation values, and foundation ready.

Just a thought.
Good luck. I once heard someone say that inspectors are people who could not make it as contractors......

[MountainDon]

.  Running a successful contracting business requires more than  knowing how to put the pieces together. It also requires a business skill set, that some lack. There's no reason someone like that might not make a good inspector, IMO.

[nailit69]

.  Running a successful contracting business requires more than  knowing how to put the pieces together. It also requires a business skill set, that some lack. There's no reason someone like that might not make a good inspector, IMO.

Agreed... I love the craft but don't like the BS that goes along with running a business.  I can put the pieces together all day and not that I don't have that business skill set... it's just more hassle than I care to deal with at the end of the day and I'd rather build than do paperwork.  I've been an Owner, a Superintendent, a Project Manager, a Foreman, a Laborer and a Carpenter... of those 6... I'll take the last 2 any day of the week. 

As for inspectors... i'll take a field experienced inspector over a book smart one any time... most inspectors I deal with can tell by looking at our work that it's done right... Poindexter has his codebook and anytime I see a clipboard and a tape measure I know i'm about to get "inspected"

[nailit69]

Here's my story.  I own a buildable lot in a safe residential Southeastern Michigan suburb.  I already have a completed recent survey.  I do not have to pay city water tap fees.  Septic is not allowed.  I'm immediately near electrical and telephone lines.

Minimum Square footage is 750ft.  Maximum first floor square footage (house footprint) for my lot is approximately 1,900 square feet, height maximum is 25 feet. 

The building inspectors here are tyrants and loosely follow the IBC 2009.  Architect stamped plans are required to begin building.  My budget is tiny, sub $50k.  I do not believe any architect would bother with such a small budget, and I do not blame them.  I mostly like modern architecture but do enjoy converted barns as well.  However, this is likely immaterial considering my small budget. 

That leaves me with buying stamped plans (I do not believe the ones on this site are stamped?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.) or possibly buying a pre-engineered and stamped steel framed building or barn and outfitting it.  I would use a slab as my foundation.  Trailer homes are not allowed.  RV's are not allowed.  I do not have a family.  I presently live close to the building site so; the struggle of driving back and forth from a distant site is eliminated. 

Does anyone have some insight, tips, or advice on how I could build a house given these conditions? 

I have read many excellent owner built threads.  However, many of these are located in more rural areas with few or no building codes.   

Thank you very much for your help.

$50k Should get you dried in depending on what you're doing... obviously, the more work you can perform yourself the better.  I'm building a 14'x24' "Prescriptive Path" cabin (900+/- useable sq.ft) and doing all the work myself and i'm hoping to come in around the $18-$20k range for a complete building... but that doesn't include generator/power, phone/cable/internet connection, water storage/disposal systems, propane tank, composting toilet, woodstove, decking, stone veneer for the chimney, comp roofing instead of metal, T1-11 instead of real board n batt... you get the idea.  Not sure what your skill level is but if you can do it you can save $$thousands$$ in labor costs and get the satisfaction of saying "I built this".  Almost everything you need to know can be Googled and if you can swing a hammer, use a saw, and read a tape measure, you can probably pull it off.

[rick91351]

90% of the inspectors I have been around - state and county are just doing their job and doing it very well.  Where most of the rub come from is people that do not know the 'trade' or the code.  So they make mistakes and are required to fix them.  But who is the SOB in the deal?  The person who thinks they know and could have picked up the phone and made a phone call or looked in a book or heaven forbid looked at the plans?  Or the inspector who will not sign off on something.

My current inspector is so good to work with.  He knows the building trades inside and out.  He flat says, "Hey if you get confused or have a problem give me a call. Let's not paint ourselves into a corner."  The guy is young has a great wife and little kids.  He now knows how much he is bringing home each month. He does not have to worry if someone is going to default on a job. Good benefits and knows his days off are real days off. 

I guess I would not let the inspector issue buffalo me.  Just get a good idea how to work with them.  Most are just people doing their job.       

[Don_P]

Amen,
I've tried several times to put that into words, well said. Each time an opening comes up I'm tempted, especially as the physical damage of the work accumulates, by Thursday night I knew I was taking Friday off. My Dad went over to the dark side in his late 40's and then worked his way out of that office up through county government. They now have a comfortable retirement. Technically I could do the job and have been encouraged to, but watching and listening to the hassles of the job I don't think it's for me. Most of us went into the trades because we enjoy working with our hands. I'd rather cut and stack rafters any day than do the books. My ideal job would be if the land grant colleges did something for construction similar the extension service they offer to farmers. Mentoring, the carrot, rather than enforcement, the stick. We opened that door at one time, only to close it later, we are now bolting that door shut as can be seen when jurisdictions require professionally prepared plans even for prescriptive work. When they came out we jokingly called the I codes "the engineer's full employment act".

I think we've beat this horse. My original apprehension was when I thought we were talking about 50k complete. You will have a better idea when you can do some takeoffs. Can you post some sketches?

[themodernist]

90% of the inspectors I have been around - state and county are just doing their job and doing it very well.  Where most of the rub come from is people that do not know the 'trade' or the code.  So they make mistakes and are required to fix them.  But who is the SOB in the deal?  The person who thinks they know and could have picked up the phone and made a phone call or looked in a book or heaven forbid looked at the plans?  Or the inspector who will not sign off on something.

My current inspector is so good to work with.  He knows the building trades inside and out.  He flat says, "Hey if you get confused or have a problem give me a call. Let's not paint ourselves into a corner."  The guy is young has a great wife and little kids.  He now knows how much he is bringing home each month. He does not have to worry if someone is going to default on a job. Good benefits and knows his days off are real days off. 

I guess I would not let the inspector issue buffalo me.  Just get a good idea how to work with them.  Most are just people doing their job.     

Hi rick91351,

That inspector sounds like a pleasure to work with.  Sadly, both inspectors in my city are terrible people.  The mere act of asking them a question is like pulling teeth and might take at least 4 phone calls or several visits; then if by luck you are able to speak with one for 30 seconds they act like you are not worth of their time.  Their poor secretaries walk around on eggshells day after day hoping not to upset the inspectors in some way.  They are the worst, and I have heard similar sentiments by many different people with property in this city. 

[rick91351]

Hi rick91351,

That inspector sounds like a pleasure to work with.  Sadly, both inspectors in my city are terrible people.  The mere act of asking them a question is like pulling teeth and might take at least 4 phone calls or several visits; then if by luck you are able to speak with one for 30 seconds they act like you are not worth of their time.  Their poor secretaries walk around on eggshells day after day hoping not to upset the inspectors in some way.  They are the worst, and I have heard similar sentiments by many different people with property in this city. 

WOW, that is sad. And such is what make the building process and inspection process painful and makes people want to go under the radar.  Some places I know they stand around and have their hand out requiring fees and then more fees.  Some inspectors have little use for owner-builders as well. This all makes the building process a pain in the hind end.   

[fcpnorman]

Perhaps my comments were harsh about inspectors- but I too have had several bad experiences..

In the county where I live, I was putting in a swimming pool(owner builder)- each time I would show up with my plans they would find an error. On the third trip I asked for a complete summation of mistakes and a description of what they wanted. They then produced a sheet with a guide. When I asked why they did not offer that up front- the response was that "I did not ask"....
Later in the process when I finally found someone to help me- she finally confided that the direction given from the top was to "discourage owner builders". Last time I checked that is how our country was founded. As a tax paying citizen- that is wrong.

I am a fireman and understand rules and the importance of codes and the roles that fees play in the process- but I did not go in there with the intent to be negligent- but rather to put in a swimming pool. California is obviously different- but I do feel for you when you deal with an inspector who "officiously discharges" their duty. At times they can become obstructionist in their work and it can add stress to an already stressful process.
Since then I have bought books on codes and I understand the building trades more extensively- completely remodeling a 2450 square foot , 35 y/o old home will do that for you.

I wish you luck with your build, perhaps you can hire someone with some knowledge to help guide you- I have done that and not only did I learn a lot- but it did help streamline the process.
I am a student of building construction- because of my job as a fireman- so I also recognize that the codes are always changing- even if you are considering building- you may want to try and determine any code changes that may be enacted in the near future- example- in CA the new fire sprinkler ordinance was enacted on January 1- 2011. The result was an immediate increase of about $4000.00 for a 1600 Square foot SFD. That is a lot- and for a lot of people not all that easy to do if you do not have plumbing experience.

Good luck on your build. This is a great site and there are a lot of very inspirational builds here.

[rick91351]

I am sorry for the thread drift from the original posting.  Sort of went south from can I build a dwelling or rough one in for less that $50 K?

If it is done very simple you might have a chance.  This would be a rectangular footprint with a straight roof.  No dormers - bay windows - cute little sub porches and five car garages.  However, they can be added after you win the lottery.   

I have often wondered if engineers and their architect buddies might keep a few sets of plans in the 'rack' just for what you are asking for.   You call around and ask, "Hey have you done any jobs like this ______ And that I can buy a few sets of stamped plans."  Around here there are always an engineer or architect who is low on work or out of work and will work for less.  Some moonlight on homes after they regular job.  I have had a couple drawn off my drawings.  Last one we are living in right now.  I drew everything to scale and had worked with an engineer before.  I called him to recommend an architect or draftsman to do the drawing. He gave me a name we met.  He was easy to work with after I drew the line on the second meeting.  And firmly explained once again no stairs, no bonus room in the above, no basement below.    Draw it like I drew it.  Get it to  Bob (engineer) to stamp it.  You pay Bob or I will - you two figure that out.  This is my budget for getting it drawn and copies and I also want a digital copy.  Two weeks later we met and he handed off the copies to me.   Simple home while not small.  We designed for up here.  Very simple to build and very snow and cold friendly.  No lots of meetings and tweaks and this and that.  Simple roof line with simple trusses that we were able to set with the equipment we had available up here we could rent with the owner - operator.  When this went to insurance underwriting.  I was well pleased for what they said our replacement value was for what we had in it.  Again simple rectangle with simple roof.  Might be affordable.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12965.50

While I used to be anti slab foundation and I think now we might have looked better into that. I am liking them more and more.

Another place I would start looking around is lumber yards.  Look for siding that was overstocked or miss ordered.  Exterior doors that might be slightly imperfect.  Windows sometimes can be had for half price or less. some areas have builders auctions where that stuff ends up or a local builder consignment place.  What you save there will pay huge in the future. 

Do not assume that HD or Lowes are the best places to buy stuff.  Local lumber yards will often give nice discounts when you buy a framing package.  Another thing about this is that you often will keep that until you move away or you die. Hardware, paint, sheetrock and such they even start to know you as well.

I kind of think you could do it.  But with your inspectors learn to color between the lines.  Then look for good material at good prices. Cheap is not always good.                          



   

   

[themodernist]

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12965.50

While I used to be anti slab foundation and I think now we might have looked better into that. I am liking them more and more.

Another place I would start looking around is lumber yards.  Look for siding that was overstocked or miss ordered.  Exterior doors that might be slightly imperfect.  Windows sometimes can be had for half price or less. some areas have builders auctions where that stuff ends up or a local builder consignment place.  What you save there will pay huge in the future. 

Do not assume that HD or Lowes are the best places to buy stuff.  Local lumber yards will often give nice discounts when you buy a framing package.  Another thing about this is that you often will keep that until you move away or you die. Hardware, paint, sheetrock and such they even start to know you as well.

I kind of think you could do it.  But with your inspectors learn to color between the lines.  Then look for good material at good prices. Cheap is not always good.                          

Hi rick91351, thank you for your informative post.  I really enjoyed reading your build thread and read it over twice.  Your new home is looking great!