Propane fired tankless water heaters

[containercabin]

Hey,

I would like to use in my tiny (144sqft) cabin one of these tankless propane water heaters. Questions:

1. Can some of you share how you have it set up?

2. I wanted to use the Eccotemp L5 (meant for outdoors) but I was afraid of using it indoors. Does anyone vent it somehow and use it indoors?

3. If I do install the L5 outdoor - is there a need to tweak the two controllers on it every time you take a shower or can I just set it to maximum and then just use it as my hot water line.

4. Can the L5 run on a 20lbs propane tank or should I get a 40 lbs tank? I don't intend on taking many shower in this cabin (it is a weekend gateway)

5. Anyone here using Eccotemp FVI-12-LP?

[roadtripray]

I know nothing about it, but Eccotemp makes a product intended for indoor use for $269.  That one is rated at 3 gpm.  I think most showers are 1 or 2 gpm, and presumably you'd be mixing cold water with the hot so you wouldn't be using the full 1 or 2 gpm of hot water.  I think the federal limit is 2.5 gpm @ 80 psi.

Peace,
Ray

[flyingvan]

http://www.hotcampshowers.com/inc/sdetail/1257  Looks like a 20 # tank will do just fine

[OlJarhead]

Never mind the ugly install (it will get better).

I'm using a Marey product that cost me $200.  It's an indoor unit and will heat a lot more water then the cheaper camp showers according to specs.

I'll say this:  it's been great!  It's actually TOO HOT right now and I need to try to adjust that a little but so far I'm very please.  What I did was install it 'outside' but also inside in this manner:  it's on the outside of the cabin in a 'hot water closet' that's insulated with 2" rigid foam.  It has a air return vent on the inside of the cabin so it can draw air from the cabin as well as heat (in the winter) and is vented outside.


Inside the cabin

I still need to improve the vent stack by pushing it up through the roof and I need to build a roof over it that will shed water and snow (soon) and I may also install a fresh air vent so it can draw fresh air from below it.  Otherwise it's been VERY nice!

Currently our water system is a food safe 55gallon drum with a 12vdc RV pump to provide pressure.  We're pretty happy with this set up though in the winter we don't have running water.

[Abbey]

I'm using the Triton L10 which is designed to use a 20# propane tank and be outside. Of course I'm using it indoors and have been for about 6 months without issue. My feeling is a propane cookstove must put more carbon monoxide into a house cooking than a small tankless water heater will running for a shower.

When I first start the water and the unit fires there is that propane smell like with a cookstove but it goes away quickly. I also have 2 carbon monoxide detectors and they've never gone off using the shower.

If you're concerned at all just crack a window or door while you're running the heater.

[davidj]

The Eccotemp (and presumably other similar units) burn 75K BTU/hr, which is a fair propane throughput and probably about the same as a decent size cooking stove running flat out.  And of course the cooking stove has been tested for CO issues to US standards whereas the outdoor water heaters haven't.  Not to mention that the oven - the biggest burner on the cooking stove - is thermostatically controlled and doesn't burn at full output for extended periods (this is why you should never warm a room by leaving the door of a gas stove open - these guys aren't designed to stay on continuously but they will if you run them with the door open).

You'd certainly want to vent the heater and have a couple of CO detectors nearby as an absolute minimum.

CO kills 100s of people in the US every year - better safe than sorry.

David.

PS And if you're using/mounting these heaters outdoors, check out Mtn Don's propane cylinder sizing post.  75K BTU/hr is a fair bit to pull from a 20lb cylinder and it's not gonna work well once temps drop (probably  increasing the chance of CO, too, as the burner will end up operating less efficiently).

[hpinson]

Strongly agree. Vent!  Better safe than dead.

I would think all the more so in a small space.

[containercabin]

I eventually bought the indoor version: FVIL12 that works on propane.

Mix info about it a bit... The brochure says to not install it in bathrooms or confined spaces. It defines confined space as any 50 cubic feet per 1000 btu. This baby uses 74,000 so I need at least 3700 which is almost three times my entire cabin and I just want to install it in the bathroom..... I emailed them about it and they said "You will need to vent it with the horizontal vent kit provided with the heater. Go to the venting instructions in your Care and Use Manual so you will know what the venting clearance requirements are. "

Again, I might be really over thinking this as I will take maybe two 5 min showers there, mainly in the summer, and I have a CO detector. Maybe I will buy a second for the bathroom.

You think I should do anything extra for venting? and if so - what?

[jaransont3]

I will be interested in your experience with the FVI-12.  That is the same heater we plan to use at our cabin.

[PaulB]

Hey Containercabin,

Don't mess around with these things. You don't want your container to be your final resting container. The inside, outside issue is important. The unit is designed to be outside, don't put it inside. As a certified propane installer I beg you to find someone in your area who is certified to do this install. There are carbon monoxide as well as aldehyde issues involved with the venting. Especially if it's vented with a draft hood. Even power vent models have to be installed to manufacturers specs to dispose of carbon monoxide properly. Not trying to be a downer for you but this is one place in construction to know what your doing.

Regards,
PaulB

[containercabin]

Paul,

you can rest assured (thanks for you concern) I have eventually bought an indoor unit from eccotmep. the FVI 12 lp.

I installed it this weekend and will run it soon enough

[jaransont3]

How was the install? Any issues?

I am planning on ordering ours in the next week before or trip to the cabin for Labor Day.

[containercabin]

installation was easy but I haven't fired it up yet.... I will possibly do that this weekend

[Jeff922]

I installed a Takagi TKJR2.  I really love it!  I direct vented mine and I'm very glad I did.  Two things to be aware of:  1)  Tankless units don't like hard water.  Scale will destroy their delicate heat-exchangers quickly.  Make sure your water isn't too hard (I'd be concerned above 8gpg).  2)  Make sure your gas line is sized properly and the regulator is set to the correct pressure. 

[flyingvan]

Yeah I take mine down once a year and run CLR through the pipes to de-scale them.  Even a little buildup really cuts into the efficiency

[jaransont3]

Did you get a chance to try out you're heater this weekend, containercabin?  I am anxious to hear some first hand experience before ordering ours.

[jaransont3]

Probably going to pull the trigger and order ours tonight so it is here before we head to the cabin for Labor Day week.  Wondering of you had a chance to try yours out yet, containercabin.

[containercabin]

Hey,

Missed this... I didn't have a chance to test it yet. I will probably only be able to test it next weekend. They raised its price on Amazon since I got it but if you order it and are not happy - just return it.

[jaransont3]

No problem.  I went ahead and order ours this morning.  I order the one from Amazon that is currently on back order...but it was over $100 less than the same one from another Amazon supplier.  Hopefully it will come in and get shipped to before our upcoming trip to the cabin ends.  If not hot water will have to wait until the next trip.

[OlJarhead]

I'm really liking the Marey which is about $100 less.  In fact I need to turn it down! lol it's amazingly hot.

[operose]

I am using the Marey 10L as well, OlJarhead and it is working great! We have it mounted next to the kitchen counter and vented out through the wall as directed in the instructions.

Water supply is a 300gal tank on the porch which is lower than the floor of the cabin. Need to install a check valve because the water drains back to the tank after the pump shuts off. Also need to put in a pressure tank as the heater is a little "finicky" on initial startup sometimes. Shurflo 4008 12v pump with built in pressure switch providing water to kitchen sink, bathroom sink, and shower.

[OlJarhead]

I'm finding that most of my problem is crud in the lines from the install or poor piping.  Since Ive corrected the way the lines are run (main feeds are now 3/4") I've seen improvements and the shower works pretty well.  I'm still fighting with the pressure setting (has to be on low) but otherwise it works now and I'm thinking the issues I've had were related to the poor install of my pex from the start.....ahh how we learn!

[OlJarhead]

On a side note I took Marey's advice and set the heater to run as hot as I like it when taking a shower without using any cold and that did the trick   Had a nice hot shower tonight that felt great!!! 

[operose]

Ahhhhhhhhhh man I did not really want to hear that  My cistern is plumbed to the tank with only 1/2" PEX and the rest of the system is 1/2" as well, so I would have to replace all of it from the cistern to the pump, then from the pump to the water heater?? This is no good, I have a bunch of money in the 1/2" PEX and fittings.....

[OlJarhead]

Ahhhhhhhhhh man I did not really want to hear that  My cistern is plumbed to the tank with only 1/2" PEX and the rest of the system is 1/2" as well, so I would have to replace all of it from the cistern to the pump, then from the pump to the water heater?? This is no good, I have a bunch of money in the 1/2" PEX and fittings.....

I'm not yet convinced of that.  You see my cold works just fine so I'm thinking I have some crap in the lines in my hot water heater.