Problems getting new ejector deep-well pump working

[roadtripray]

I bought a Water Ace RC-5 deep well pump for my existing well at my build site.  My dad and brother helped me insert the pipe down the well and later I finished up the plumbing up to the pump, wired it in, and primed it.  The pump is spinning, so I know it's not locked up, but I get no water.  I primed it with about 7.5 gallons of water and it only spat out about 8 ounces, which isn't a very good return on my water investment.

The top of the water is about 59' from the top of the well casing, so we cut the pipe about 69' long.  I used 1" and 1.25" polyethylene pipe, and we're pretty sure that the connection from the pipe to the ejector and the ejector to the foot valve are good.  I'm not seeing any water leaks on the connections at the top of the well to the pump, and the pumps sounds smooth as silk, and is definitely spinning.

Two of the things the owners manual suggests as possible problems are a stuck foot valve, or a bad o-ring seal in the pump.  I'm willing to pull the pipe back up if I must to check the foot valve, but don't really know what "stuck" means.  Okay, I know if it won't open at all that it's stuck, but if I go through the trouble of pulling the pipe I was wondering how much force should it take for the little seat thingey to open.

The pressure gauge never moves off zero, but yet when I finally give up and turn the pump off I can hear water running through the pipes that go down to the well, so it seems that the water is circulating through the pipes, just no new water seems to be pulled up.

I wonder if it's worth taking the front cover off the pump to see if the o-ring is not seated properly.  If anyone has any suggestions as to things to check or other clues to check for I would be MOST appreciative.  My chickens and I need water, and I'm getting tired of brushing my teeth with bottled water!

Peace,
Ray

[Don_P]

This is not a pump I'm familiar with but the sound of water running back down when you switch off sounds like a foot valve stuck open. Before I pulled the pump I'd wear out their 800 number though. The beauty of cell phones is being able to talk while playing with tools.

[roadtripray]

One thing I forgot to mention is the pump doesn't lose its prime.  I worked on it until about 9:30 Sunday night and when I resumed my efforts Monday after work at about 7:30 I could only add a couple ounces of water.

The pump is also a jet pump so some water goes down the smaller pipe then back up the larger one so the water I heard may have been the loop slowing back down when the pump is off.

[Neil Stasilli]

Its been my experience that 10 ft. of water above pump in well is not enough water to get 7 gal flow rate.  The well refill rate is not fast enough to fill 59 ft of PVC to get water at the sink.  I think you need to get much more water above the pump to get the flow rate you need.  Its been my experience.  If you can, try to get more depth with the pump.  Also check that you have 220 volts at the pump.  Check it at the switch.  I have had this problem a couple of times.  Good Luck!

[JRR]

I agree that 10 feet of water is not very much.  Unless the well has a very large flow rate, that 10 feet will be pumped out very quickly and then the well will essentially be "empty".  With that little head of water, the jet will quickly begin to cavitate and you will not even be able to pump out the 10 feet of water.

To prove the pump is working as it should, lift the injector-jet out of the well ... and try pumping out of a swimming pool, or large barrel of water ... or whatever.  Try to create as much elevation difference between the pump and injector-jet as you can.  You may have the hoses switched at the injector-jet ... the prime would still hold, but the jet would be very ineffective.

[rick91351]

I am really concerned where you chose to set the pump.  Over pumping is my main concern even if the pump runs.  Sorry to hear that it does not.  I first would also look to make sure it is getting enough voltage.  Then make sure you are not going to over pump your well.   

I have a very low producing well up at the ranch.  Like a gallon and a half a minute.  While it was dug for livestock use, it could be and now is also used for domestic purposes.   The well is 250 feet, and the pump is clear down at the bottom minus a few feet.  Then it sits there with a one gallon restrictor to prevent over pumping.

Good luck! 

[Neil Stasilli]

PS  If the foot valve is installed with the arrow showing the direction of flow than the pump pressure gauge should read min. 20 psi when pump is running off of self prime.  You could always put enougher inline foot valve just in the line before the pump.  If the pump is a good one and you have 220 volts and you here water running back down pipe when you turn it off, I believe your existing foot valve is malfunctioning.  The best of luck to you.  I've been there and done that.

[roadtripray]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

The owner manual for the pump specifically says that the ejector should not be any deeper than 10' below the water line, although I cannot imagine why.  Besides that, the small pump I bought is limited to 70' deep, and my water line is at 59', so for that reason I need to put it 10' below the water line.  I don't think the problem is cavitation because it would have to suck a lot of water up in order to "dig" a hole of water big enough for that to happen, and I haven't seen that much water come up, yet.

As for the voltage, I'm running it off a generator.  It's 115V, by the way.  One reason I bought a 115V pump was so I could run it off the generator along with the RV.  I did think about the voltage, and to eliminate the drop cord length as an issue (along with competing with my RV charge controller), I dragged my generator to the well house and plugged the pump directly into the generator.

The most likely thing anyone has mentioned (at least the thing that sounds likely to me) is a faulty foot valve.  I don't get any pressure at all, so maybe I have a faulty foot valve, or perhaps a leak somewhere.  My brother suggested foamy shaving cream around the accessible joints to detect a leak, since the manual stated that even a pinhole leak can cause problems.

Thanks again!
Ray

[TheWire]

Have you got your pump working yet?  When you prime the pump are both lines full of water?  With the way an ejector pump uses a smaller water flow to suck more water through the jet, I think any air in that loop may get into the impeller area of the pump and stop the pump from pushing water around the loop.

[hpinson]

Answering these questions may help troubleshoot:

What is the well recharge in gallons per minute?

You said that the pipe was 1". What is the casing size?

Have you measured actual depth to water recently, and is it as you think?

Does your waterline fluctuate seasonally?

[bushrat]

bo you have a bladder type pressure tank, if so do you have a sediment faucet on the tank tee that yuo can open and let water out / if you do try running your pump and let it fill then open the faucet a bit and some water should come out if so keep doing this and open more each time if the flow out of the faucet is getting better. alot of time what happens is your pump is trying to overcome the bladder pressure and can not do it inuatlly so you have to bleed some water of so the bladder isn'tt fighting you, once this is acomplished start to fill your main lines and make sure to have the hottap on the highest fixture open so that you can fill your hotwater tank , otherwise the water will be fighting the air in yourh.w.tank just like what is probably going on with your pumo

[JRR]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

The owner manual for the pump specifically says that the ejector should not be any deeper than 10' below the water line, although I cannot imagine why.  Besides that, the small pump I bought is limited to 70' deep, ......and my water line is at 59', so for that reason I need to put it 10' below the water line.  ......

Thanks again!
Ray

I would really like for you to make, and post, an image of the words they used ... for I don't understand why they would say the injector should be just 10' below the water line.  My well is 200' plus, the water level is 20' or less (depends on the season)... my injector is approx 175' deep.  Or, in other words, the injector is usually 155' below water level.

If the pump is limited to 70', that means the pump and injector will only lift water 70' .... from the water level to the pump.  But the injector can be much lower .... generally: the lower the better.  Of course, you also want it at least a few feet off the bottom ... to prevent too much pick-up of sand or earth.

[roadtripray]

I finally got the well working!   

Okay, more correctly, the well drilling company got my well working for me.  It turns out I had done everything right except on thing:  I didn't put the little ejector nozzle inside the ejector body.  I wish I had a picture to show you, but with the double pipe deep well system, you have an ejector body, which in this case is a bit of cast iron that provides a "u-turn" between the smaller pipe going down and the larger pipe coming back up, with a "tail" where you attach the foot valve.

In the return part of the cast iron body, there is a venturi, which is a bit of a small diameter plastic pipe about 3 or 4 inches long.  I had that part in there, but was missing a little tiny nozzle that screws inside the cast iron body before you screw the venturi over the top of that.  All that trouble over a piece of plastic the size of a fingertip.  It reminds me of the cone-shaped plastic on the end of an otoscope - the device a doctor uses to peek inside your ears.

I'm posting this here in case others put together this sort of thing so you don't make the simple, yet critical mistake I did.

Here is the PDF of the owners manual for my particular pump.  For some reason I can't get it to load now, although I've loaded it dozens of times before.  But I'm pretty sure if you look in the section about the deep-well jet pump installation the RC-5 model (which is my model) says you should place the foot valve 10 feet below the surface of the water.  I may have misunderstood the head lift, though.  What you are saying, JRR, is that the head lift is the top of the water level down in the well to the pump.  I was thinking you had to count the entire depth, but now that you mention it that way it does seem to make sense.
http://www.waterace.com/pdf/23833A472(12-8-05).pdf

This is a temporary pump that will get me through living on the property in my camper and throughout the construction of my home.  I wanted something that didn't draw too many amps and could run on 120 volts to make it easy to power my camper and the well pump from the same generator.

When you've been trucking water in for a few months, having water is truly a blessing!  This has really been a boost!

Thanks,
Ray