Shiplap vs. T&G flooring?

Started by Erin, January 22, 2012, 01:44:56 PM

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Erin

In doing my budget, I find T&G is a good 50% higher than standard dimensional lumber so I'm hunting for a way to cut costs a little.  Glenn has given past instructions about how to create your own shiplap with a standard skil saw and guide, so I find myself wondering if shiplap is an option? 
(I don't want to do T&G because the cost of a router or two, as well as time, would end up being a wash with the 50% markup, know what i mean?)

I know 2x T&G can span 4' from joist to joist.  But what about shiplap?
I also know 1x shiplap was traditionally used for subflooring, on the diagonal, but joists were on 16-24" centers, not 3'4" with a 36" clear span...

So that's my question:  What do you think, would 2x6 or 8s, shiplapped and laid diagonally, be as strong as 2x6 or 8s T&G, laid perpendicular?


The wise woman builds her own house... Proverbs 14:1

MountainDon

I think the problem with shiplap as flooring would be that the overlap only works on one board, the board that laps on top of the second. Step on the board that is under the other and it will still give. T&G locks both.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


rick91351

#2
If you are going to take time and make ship lap just make t and g.  With a simple router table and a slot cutting bit you can turn out copious quantities of t & g and not even have to buy a t and g router bit set.  If using regular dimensional lumber as in 1.5 inch for a 2X?.  I would go with an American made Whiteside Slotting bit #1922 with a 1/2" shank or a Whiteside Slotting bit #1920 for a 1/4" shank.  Both cut a .5 inch slot.   
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Don_P

QuoteSo that's my question:  What do you think, would 2x6 or 8s, shiplapped and laid diagonally, be as strong as 2x6 or 8s T&G, laid perpendicular?

That was several questions  :)
Diagonal vs perpendicular is about 40% longer span.
T&G is going to provide better "blocking" to the edges as MD said.
Not a clue as to the performance difference but it will be a good bit inferior to the T&G floor.

My question is why the markup? I've run molders, it doesn't care whether you have T&G or straight knives on the sides and it does all 4 sides of either in one pass. The rough stock, a 2x6 or 2x8 is the same for either. There may be a charge or minimum order if this is not a stock item. If the species and grade are the same for both examples then someone is trying to make a healthy profit.

Erin

I have no idea why the markup, but there it is... 
So far as routing my own, I'm thinking by the time I use a few bits, burn out a router or two running a few thousand linear feet through it, I haven't saved enough to be worth my time, too. 
The wise woman builds her own house... Proverbs 14:1


RIjake

The shiplap appeals to me and I plan on using it in local pine for my finished floor on the first level.

Being a dyed in the wool New Englander, I grew up in houses that had it for a finish floor.  From a historical perspective it's correct... from the 18th century til about midway through the 19th shiplap pine was common.  It gets beat up nice for that lived in look too [cool]

I agree on the loft floor with 4' centers, go with the T&G!

rick91351

You might go through a bit or two.  The brand I suggested are very high quality and have a very long lives.  That is if you can keep them clean and free of pitch.  Either by a spray or a soak and a good brushing.  A lot of wood workers soak the whole bit - guide bearing and all.  But I have been recently told do not that.  Remove the guide bearing, soak the bit and reattach the guide bearing.  And as with all carbide blades and bits do not let them get next to other carbide bits.

I certainly can not promise you will not go through a router motor, but most mid sized name brands would do it and be around long after that.  And if you start out with a new one and you burn it up just return it to the box box store.  They will just replace it.  However one thing I can promise you will be a lot more satisfied with the mill run T and G by far.

As Don_P says it makes little difference through a production planer if you are running tongue and grove, or just straight dimensional lumber.  I can see a little mark up.  However the cost of production per thousand is not going to be that much different coming out of the planer.  Be it dimensional lumber or tongue and grove.  However that does not ease the pain nor the fact they want $X for 2X6s.  And they want $XXX for 2X6 T&G             
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

rick91351

Quote from: RIjake on January 22, 2012, 06:25:27 PM
The shiplap appeals to me and I plan on using it in local pine for my finished floor on the first level.

Being a dyed in the wool New Englander, I grew up in houses that had it for a finish floor.  From a historical perspective it's correct... from the 18th century til about midway through the 19th shiplap pine was common.  It gets beat up nice for that lived in look too [cool]

I agree on the loft floor with 4' centers, go with the T&G!

Interesting, around here because of the coastal fir was in such abundance.  There were a lot of older Craftsman Style /  Arts and Crafts houses built here on the west coast with fir floors.  A lot of your old hardware stores even had fir floors.  The beating they took and still looked good says volumes that not all wood floors need be oak or maple.   
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

MountainDon

#8
RE the extra cost.... something just ocurred to me. Is this 2x material that would be cut for T&G being milled from rough sawn lumber or from already S4S (surfaced 4 sides = smooth)??  The box stores here offer various profiles and they are milled here in ABQ but some is from S4S stock.  Just a thought. That would make it more expensive to cut the T&G as compared to S4S that you would then cut to shiplap yourself.  ???
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


rick91351

Way to go MD you are correct as usually.  Plan as day now!  I remember the planer setter or planer man used to roll the bottom and top heads out of the way.  Then the planer was set with the T&G head on the sides.  The grader he got to just hang out and do nothing because they just ran what was already graded.  Back then they run T&G what was then graded Standard and Better.  Same as Two and Better now.  Man oh man you brought back some memories.  The old sub grades were pulled out such as Econ. as well the premium Construction grade.

I have an excuse that was 45 years ago and two or three professions................       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.