Author Topic: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers  (Read 12954 times)

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Offline Medeek

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Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« on: February 27, 2013, 03:11:29 PM »
I've been working on developing some alternate plans for an attic space that has 6 dormers and is 14 ft. wide by 48 ft.  I readily admit my experience laying out bathrooms and kitchens is somewhat limited.  I've come up with some different concepts/combinations.  I started with concept 1 and arrived at concept 3, which so far I like the best.  However my wife tells me the double sink is better than the single sink from a woman's standpoint.  Also the breakfast bar cuts into the dining space which is already quite small (7'-8" with bar).

Any thoughts on ways to improve both kitchen and bathroom designs?



Concept 1



Concept 2



Concept 3

Full PDF drawings can be viewed here:

http://design.medeek.com/plansets/garages/GARAGE4828B-A6D-3/PDF/GARAGE4828B-A6D-3_ALTFLOORPLANS_CONCEPT1.pdf
http://design.medeek.com/plansets/garages/GARAGE4828B-A6D-3/PDF/GARAGE4828B-A6D-3_ALTFLOORPLANS_CONCEPT2.pdf
http://design.medeek.com/plansets/garages/GARAGE4828B-A6D-3/PDF/GARAGE4828B-A6D-3_ALTFLOORPLANS_CONCEPT3.pdf
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
Designer, Programmer and Engineer

Offline mgramann

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 06:05:12 AM »
I'll focus on the concept 3 drawings:

Looking at the kitchen, is it possible to remove that interior wall that is currently behind the appliances?  The appliances would then move to the potential half wall which would be a full wall.  The breakfast bar could be larger and move in a similar fashion.  I wouldn't make it too large though, as it would limit what you could do with your now, much larger, dining area.

With the bathroom, double sinks will double your under cabinet space.  Because of this, you may be able to eliminate the linen closet.  I would remove this, and use this space as a "cove" for the toilet.  The bedroom closet size could be adjusted as needed to ensure the cove is large enough.  Some double sinks are pretty small, so it might even be possible to install a small linen cabinet(tall/narrow) to the right of the sink location, though I would wait on this until rough in and you can get an idea of "openness"

Out of curiosity, do you have any outside pictures?  Those dormers must be pretty tall to allow for 2 levels.


Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 08:15:30 AM »
I'll focus on the concept 3 drawings:

Looking at the kitchen, is it possible to remove that interior wall that is currently behind the appliances?  The appliances would then move to the potential half wall which would be a full wall.  The breakfast bar could be larger and move in a similar fashion.  I wouldn't make it too large though, as it would limit what you could do with your now, much larger, dining area.

With the bathroom, double sinks will double your under cabinet space.  Because of this, you may be able to eliminate the linen closet.  I would remove this, and use this space as a "cove" for the toilet.  The bedroom closet size could be adjusted as needed to ensure the cove is large enough.  Some double sinks are pretty small, so it might even be possible to install a small linen cabinet(tall/narrow) to the right of the sink location, though I would wait on this until rough in and you can get an idea of "openness"

Out of curiosity, do you have any outside pictures?  Those dormers must be pretty tall to allow for 2 levels.

Sorry to confuse.  The attic has only one level, I've just got two different floorplans (options) side by side for the attic space.  One is the full apt. and the other is a bathroom only.



You do have an excellent point though about the half wall, I could make the kitchen bigger by utilizing the this wall as well and then shorten the wall that projects into the dining space, freeing up some of that space for a larger table etc...
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
Designer, Programmer and Engineer

Offline mgramann

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 08:20:40 AM »
I had another though-rather than 3 smaller dormers, have you considered 2 larger dormers?  Smaller ones limit the layout, in that only certain objects can go there.  Larger ones offer a great deal more flexibility.

Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 08:28:38 AM »
I kind of like the 3 dormer look on this size of a building but I could easily bump these out to 7ft dormers from the 6ft they are now and make the spaces more usable.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
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Offline mgramann

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 08:44:47 AM »
That makes sense-it "matches" the 3 garage doors.

I think going a bit wider is a good plan.  1 extra foot, while it doesn't sound like much, can make a world of difference.  A small bath with shower stall could fit in one of those dormers alone.

Offline UK4X4

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 09:01:21 AM »
My main comment would be the same go for two larger dormers

make the build easier- less trim and framing

Gives you more usable space

mine are 12 ft wide each on my build on a 36ft long building

that would give you two much larger  main spaces

rather than a coridor with some cupboard spaces with windows

Offline Rob_O

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 02:38:52 PM »
I kind of like the 3 dormer look on this size of a building but I could easily bump these out to 7ft dormers from the 6ft they are now and make the spaces more usable.

My .02

The dormers on the front look really good, Keep them and put a full shed dormer across the back - sort of a saltbox design, but not exactly... There's probably a name for this style as I see a lot of them

That should allow you to change up the staircase and move the entry door to make more floor space available in the garage


On the current design, the jacuzzi tub suggests you intend this to be something like an in-law apartment. As such, I'd probably replace the under counter 'fridge with a dishwasher, back a counter-depth fridge up to the stairwell and put washer/dryer hookups in the kitchenette dormer... maybe even use a 24" stove with a single basin sink and wrap the counter around the stairwell wall to the 'fridge

Another thought would be to have the 'fridge and stove backing up to the stairwell, wrap the countertop around the corner to the sink and have the dishwasher on the end of the "peninsula"

*disclaimer: I have not done the math, but the calibrated eyeball says it shouldn't take major changes to implement any of this*
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Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 06:20:44 PM »
I like the idea with the shed dormer but then I would need to replace the attic trusses with a floor truss if I want to clear span the 28 ft. below, however I might roll this one around a bit more.

The kitchen is a bit spartan for me.  I like your idea of wrapping onto the other wall, I'll re-lay it out again this week and see if I can't come up with a better design.

In the meantime, I've decided to go with brick and stucco for the exterior (yet another upgrade).  I'm trying to also add "Greek Returns" at the soffits.  I searched through the forum for previous topics related to this but didn't come up with much, maybe I'm not using the correct terminology.

Here is what I have so far.  This will be a closed soffit with 2" ventilation strip with returns that terminate as gable ends, so not true "Greek Returns" which are more like little hip roofs.  You can see in the image below that I am wrapping the 2x6 sub-fascia with a 1x6 fascia.







Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
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Offline Don_P

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 07:00:47 PM »
You're terminating in a vertical end to avoid a flashing issue? If votes count I like the hipped return better (try googling "cornice return") but if there's brick there that would work better.

Or.. connect the returns all the way across the wall, a pent roof? Brick below and stucco above.

Draw in the thickness of the soffit material then double check the fascia on the rakes and eaves. I like to have 1/2-3/4" of fascia "hangy down" (technical term  ???) below the underside of the soffit and usually run it up flush to the top of the sheathing ply on the rakes. I do alot of 3/4 T&G soffits, with a 2x6 fly, 5/8 roof deck it's about 6-3/4" thick, with a 1x8 @7-1/4" wide that works well in that setup then I rip the eaves to maintain the hangy down height.

Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 06:19:20 AM »
You're terminating in a vertical end to avoid a flashing issue? If votes count I like the hipped return better (try googling "cornice return") but if there's brick there that would work better.

Or.. connect the returns all the way across the wall, a pent roof? Brick below and stucco above.

Draw in the thickness of the soffit material then double check the fascia on the rakes and eaves. I like to have 1/2-3/4" of fascia "hangy down" (technical term  ???) below the underside of the soffit and usually run it up flush to the top of the sheathing ply on the rakes. I do alot of 3/4 T&G soffits, with a 2x6 fly, 5/8 roof deck it's about 6-3/4" thick, with a 1x8 @7-1/4" wide that works well in that setup then I rip the eaves to maintain the hangy down height.

My drip edge as shown is 1/2", I'm using 3/8" ply for the soffit, however the T&G sounds a lot nicer.   With the T&G what are you doing for a ventilation strip? I need to post a proper cross section of the soffit, showing the brick with frieze and cornice moulding.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
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Offline Don_P

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 01:54:14 PM »
I start at the fascia with a row of T&G, the groove is against the fascia, tongue toward the building. The next row has the tongue removed, edge finished and the strip vent leg tucked up under the ripped edge of the soffit. The next row has the tongue removed and is spun around groove to the wall, it traps the other leg of the strip vent, then the final row to the wall. Everything is face nailed with a trim gun. I use roofers to hold the loose inboard edge of the strip vent up when first installing it's other edge under the outer soffit boards. I snap lines for all of that, your eye can pick up a wiggle in a strip vent at 55 mph  d*. for the rakes I take all the ugly T&G and chop it to the overhang length, usually something just shy of 2', defecting out missing knots, cracks, gouges, etc... its where to use up the (s)crap. You can work from the bottom to top blind nailing most of this, nailed to the fly rafter and a complimentary 2x wall nailer. Rip tongues and bevel the top piece to fit. Easy, looks good, and flammable.

Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 11:11:52 AM »
Brick and Stucco with the Greek Returns.  I've decided to go with an approximate 12" overhang (that is actual overhang from the brick, which pushes the wall out 5" more from the face of framing).

How to secure the frieze board is still a bit troubling, if I get ambitious I will post up a soffit cross section to see if my addition of a 2x4 nailer makes sense.

Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
Designer, Programmer and Engineer

Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 11:24:59 AM »
Finally got around to modeling up the attic floorplans.  Its funny how things always change when you start looking at things in three dimensions, I guess that is why I do it, it helps to visualize the space better and makes the flaws in the design pop out.









With the alternate attic 2 I ended up removing the double wall since it took away from the bathroom width.  Bumped the door to a 2668 from a 2468.  Note, the angled linen closet doors, not really sure what the cost on custom doors are but the geometry of the roof is controlling this.

Framing of the main floor is now complete, I increased the width of the landing since it also seemed too cramped.



Notice the doors on this design are centered on the front wall with the man door on the left wall:

Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
Designer, Programmer and Engineer

Offline CjAl

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 11:59:01 AM »
Just my personalnopinion but rather then that angled linen closet door iwould rather have a set of nicely trimed out shelves, mabey with some baskets to slid in them. I have seen doors cut like that and no matter how nice it always just looks to me to have been a planing oversight or last minute idea.

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2013, 12:18:28 PM »
We *wife & I) do not like open shelves, shelving open to the room. Been there done that and things always got more dust on them that when behind a door. I have to admit it was handy for access, but I ended up building doors to enclose the shelving. So for my money I'd pay for a custom door if there was no other way.  Different strokes... as the old saying goes.   ;D
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Offline CjAl

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 12:23:35 PM »
Well thats the good thing about us all building our own places.

Offline Medeek

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2013, 12:45:20 PM »
Personally I prefer the closet door as well, keeps the mess out of site and out of mind.  My wife always loads up the shelves with all sorts of cough medicines etc...  with 5 kids I guess it comes with the territory. 

I was thinking though maybe a reduced height door would be yet another option, not sure if such a thing exists (off the shelf) since the door knob placement would need to be custom.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, P.E.
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Offline Don_P

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Re: Utilizing Attic Space with Dormers
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2013, 02:09:03 PM »
If its a set of 6 panel cross and bible doors you can cut a stock door at the rail just below the small top panels, leaving that rail ... if the height works a simple mod to a stock unit. It looks like a pocket door would work set at the shorter height. The top of the door is hidden, you could put a thin reinforcing strip on the top.


 

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