Homestead Mini-Orchard

[rick91351]

You are 110% right about porcupines and trees.  They love to strip the bark and feast. 

We have not been able to give the orchards the big one nor the mini one much attention as of late.  We are concentrating on the building of the house and getting it dried in before the snow falls.  We really need to get the pump pulled and put away for the winter.  The tank needs drained and the spring disconnected.  We did order 100 ft of hardware cloth to make tree guards for the trees.  I picked it up the other day but have been doin' other stuff. 

Most people I have been in contact with a small orchards of six or eight trees feel that is worlds of plenty.  Next year we think watching the trees this year we feel they will start produce better.  Hope to keep those interested in the 'loop'.   

 

[hpinson]

We are considering starting a few trees this year.  Does any one have suggestions for a type of apple that would be late blooming, cold hardy, and drought resistant.  I'm looking for local or mail order sources.

We are in high pinion-juniper woodland, in northern New Mexico, we have cold winters down to about -20F, hot summers up to about 100F, a light but generally persistent snowpack, and have strong monsoonal moisture in July and August (usually). There are lots of bees around. Lots of deer!

One local stock that I know works in such conditions is Dixon apples, as grown at the former Dixon Orchard. They are gone, wiped away by floods and politics, but I wonder if stock of this variety is available somewhere? In retrospect I should contact the County Extension agent, if such a person still exists around here.

We have a gorgeous old apricot tree, which yields (quite a bit) occasionally when there is a warm spring. 

[rick91351]

We are considering starting a few trees this year.  Does any one have suggestions for a type of apple that would be late blooming, cold hardy, and drought resistant.  I'm looking for local or mail order sources.

We are in high pinion-juniper woodland, in northern New Mexico, we have cold winters down to about -20F, hot summers up to about 100F, a light but generally persistent snowpack, and have strong monsoonal moisture in July and August (usually). There are lots of bees around. Lots of deer!

One local stock that I know works in such conditions is Dixon apples, as grown at the former Dixon Orchard. They are gone, wiped away by floods and politics, but I wonder if stock of this variety is available somewhere? In retrospect I should contact the County Extension agent, if such a person still exists around here.

We have a gorgeous old apricot tree, which yields (quite a bit) occasionally when there is a warm spring. 

I love to answer questions about fruit trees and our orchard.  It is a real labor of love.  Right now is a great time to get those fruit tree ordered.  But from where?  And what.....?

We went in to this blind not knowing anything and wow did we pay for it.  We did not know rootstock and why.  Size does make a difference.  Your dwarf and in some cases semi dwarf root stocks will not work in our climate nor yours.  You might as well toss your money to the wind.  To me the last place you go is the big box stores - their expert nursery staff in most cases does not know the difference between a filbert and Russian olive.  A Granny Smith and Granny glasses.   

Where I would start, especially if you are just looking for a few trees, would be a well established local to that area nursery.  If that is not possible there are two options I would toss out there for you.  One is Adams County Nursery- not spamming at all, I have done several thousand dollars of business with them.  Their sales staff is expert and great to work with.  I did check their stock and did not see any Dixon Apples.  But they got apples, and pears and a huge line of other fruit trees.  You do need to know sort of what type of soil you have before you call them.  My ill drained clay here goes well with an EMLA7 root stock, by the way, even in our cold climate.  Unless Dixons were grown in your area,  I mean real close temperature wise and with a rootstock that will work in you soi,l that might be a bust.     

My other go to place is St. Lawrence Nurseries via Ol Jarhead himself and I have done a little less than a thousand dollars worth of stuff there as well.  They are into only cold weather - extreme hardy trees.  For apples they use Russian Antonovka Rootstock.  They are a full sized tree.  There trees for most people are disappointingly small when they arrive.  This is not bad.  They are not pumped up with commercial fertilizers and and I absolutely love them.  If you have the time and water this year, get your order in for, as they are scarce but very cold hardy, black raspberries.  They are a strange company and very small.  They are US mail only.  They do not internet they are first come first served.  However their catalog is on line, and do not expect to get those big caliper trees.  You will receive these nice, and what some refer to as whips, little 3 foot starter trees.  They are vigorous and stout growing Russian rootstock trees.  We will be firming up another order to them this week.  Like I say first come first served. 

As far as deer - the experiment I am doing on this thread has worked well.  However those trees are now getting old enough to let them set fruit that is when the deer become an issue.  As well as when they start browsing.  They would work better if they were larger.  The photos at the start pretty well show what we did there, and fairly inexpensive.     

[hpinson]

Thank you Rick. Exactly the references I was looking for.  Our choices here are the big box stores who stock trees that are unsuitable to the local climate and do poorly in terms of bearing fruit given the late frosts, Monrovia which has similar inappropriate offerings, , Plant World (local) who I need to check out, and "Plants of the Southwest" (local) who are amazing but I don't think stock fruit trees.

When I look at pictures of your place, I think our climates are somewhat similar, at least judging by the native vegetation.  Russian Antonovka Rootstock trees seems maybe a good suggestion.  Our soil has less clay, more quartz sand, but the old Apricot tree seems to do well in its little soil pocket, which is similar to where I would like to plant.  Picture of it here:



Dixon is an interesting apple stock, and I really need to look into it.  What little I know about it is that was developed here in New Mexico, at Dixon orchards, which were (until the flood two years back) at about 6000 feet, sheltered in the mouth of an east facing canyon.  It would have to be cold tolerant at that altitude and a late bloomer because late April frost is a regular occurrence there. The little Dixon apples were quite tasty.  A flood took the orchard two years ago, right after one of the Big Las Alamos fires.  The family that had been managing the orchard was put out but the state land office (the orchard was on state land) for some political reasons, and the local Cochiti Indian tribe who own the surrounding land expressed interest in taking over the orchard, but the farming expertise was lost and I hear it is not going well again for some political reasons.  It will be a shame if Dixon Apple stock is completely lost through inattention.

[rick91351]

About the Dixon Apple is there any small trees left?  Dumb question but warrants some consideration.  Who do it belong to?  If small enough can they be transplanted? 

We actually had some one from an eastern university up here looking for the remnants of a Black Arkansas Apple or parentage there of....     Turns out this guy found where a shipment of this parentage was sent out this way.  Turned out where he did locate one or two in some old trees over in an orchard that was at a toll gate on a road that my grandmother folks owned.  Now part of US Highway 20.  People that talked to him said they were scouring old nursery records to find out where these old parentage apples went.  So I am wondering would the U of NM be wanting to propagate the Dixon Apple or is propagating them.  It would be fun and interesting is may be sort of anchor a planting.....  Would not hurt to ask or run it by some one.         

[hpinson]

I read an article recently (which of course I can't locate again) about seeking out historic American apple heirloom stock. apparently a lot if not most varieties have been lost in the transition to modern saleable apples.  This group was going all over the US seeking old trees.

I just found this, which describes historic apple trees, mostly disappeared, on the Colorado Plateau:

http://www.landsward.nau.edu/document_forms/Kanin_Routson_Thesis.pdf

A some part of the Dixon orchard survives, but is under control of the State Land Office (the orchard is state trust land) and is abutted by Cohchiti Tribe lands I believe. I will have to ask the Ray Powell, the Land Commissioner. He is a good guy, and may well have some information.  Could they be obtained/ transplanted? I have no idea, but it is a question worth asking.

It's an interesting story about the Dixon orchard flood: http://youtu.be/S8k6hHi93J4

The fire was so intense that it took out an historic Adobe ranch house there with three foot thick mud walls. Then the flood finished the job. Interestingly, it was owned by the University of New Mexico, and abuts the orchard.  We almost bought property there, though now I'm glad we did not.

Sad that Fire Chief Tibbets, a friend of mine in Irish Music, who speaks at the end of the video, has passed away since in an accident.

[hpinson]

Apparently the Dixon hybrid is patented...  Based on a historic "Champagne" apple tree found in the canyon by the grandfather of the [ex] caretakers.  It was a very ugly situation after the flood, and the caretakers were put out.

http://youtu.be/jitMtaXguc8

More about the fight at the end:

http://www.abqjournal.com/221311/biz/powell-reiterates-apple-orchard-lease-rejection.html

[Redoverfarm]

Something to make you sick.  My father who recently passed had planted about 40 trees of various varities back in the late 70's.  He loved his hobby to say nothing of the fruit they yielded.  Two years ago I moved my parents close to me and they sold their property where the trees were planted.  The majority of the trees were old varities that my Dad had either grafted or found root stock.  He was into the older varities. He had a couple of Arkansas Black's.  Because they were older varities they were full size not semi or dwarf.    The new owner from what I heard had bulldozed out all the trees that he had skillfully planted and raised. 

[hpinson]

 

I found the article:

Why Your supermarket Only Sells 5 Kinds of Apples

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/heritage-apples-john-bunker-maine?page=1

[rick91351]

I found the article:

Why Your supermarket Only Sells 5 Kinds of Apples

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/heritage-apples-john-bunker-maine?page=1

The orchard business is weird so says the owner of one of the huge orchards left here in Idaho.  I ran in to him in the barber shop.  He was telling us that it is a crap shoot what people will buy.  It was for years you had to grow huge volumes Delicious and Romes.  Soon things run the other way and you can not sell a Delicious in favor of Gala's and Fuji's and baking apples are going to waste.  Now it is Honey Crisp's and a few baking apples are making a come back.  Problem is going with the crystal ball knowing how tastes will change.

We still have huge selections of apples in the stores year around.  I am sort of distressed that we are importing more and more of what we can grow.  We would rather not labor for the prize but purchase the prize.  Many times purchased from big business farming co-ops and packing sheds which dictate what they are going to run and pack.  But as in all things in agriculture it is sell it or smell it.....

As far as old verities - Wow who has not gorged themselves off those old trees in the autumn.  Many very tart and firm.  But if the public does not want them the public will not eat them.  It is like the talk of heirloom vegetables.  Hybrids often taste WOW better.  They usually have a better eye appeal and store better.  Breeding and parenting these varieties did not start yesterday with DuPont and Monsanto many have been messing with the stew pot ever since he got kicked out of the Garden of Eden.....  What is the sense of growing bushels of tomatoes of you cant can them or eat them.  Or why grow corn if it only has one spindly ear when better breeding puts on three.  But now modern science and ag - business  is being stupid silly.  GMOs and herbicides that mess up the food chain all for profit.....                   

[rick91351]

Something to make you sick.  My father who recently passed had planted about 40 trees of various varities back in the late 70's.  He loved his hobby to say nothing of the fruit they yielded.  Two years ago I moved my parents close to me and they sold their property where the trees were planted.  The majority of the trees were old varities that my Dad had either grafted or found root stock.  He was into the older varities. He had a couple of Arkansas Black's.  Because they were older varities they were full size not semi or dwarf.    The new owner from what I heard had bulldozed out all the trees that he had skillfully planted and raised.

The bulldozing of trees does not surprise me.  But WOW it saddens me.  Sorry to read that....  My grandmother on dads side was that way she never went anywhere without coming home without cutting or grafts or......   my be that is where I get it from

[Canvasman]

I also purchase trees from St. Lawernce and yes the trees arrive small. Hopefully they will work well for northern Wisconsin, have an order going out soon to them. For old varieties try Southmeadow in Michigan. Another for hardy trees and variety used to be Millers in New York, but they sold out to starks in Missouri this last year.
Rick, I enjoy reading about your orchard.
Eric

[OlJarhead]

Pretty happy with my trees from them also.  They are growing like weeds in the summer!

I do however, need to get out and put cages around them  don't want the rabbits to dicover them and ring them all!

[Don_P]

We are getting more cideries in the past few years which is leading to more interest in old time apple varieties, the kind that are small and tart. All of our commercial orchards switched to dessert apples many years ago for the eating market but this should help bring back some orchards of the drinking variety. Johnny Appleseed was planting that type of apple. The colonies weren't founded on tea or beer, hard cider was the most common thirst quencher 200 years ago. We have a few old trees left as do many around here and have made frsh and hard cider and wine from them. Fermentation was simply a method of preservation and the acids and tannin in the old varieties helps with the keeping qualities as well as the flavor of cider. Those small cideries will be looking for older type apples if the trend continues. I've been around long enough to have seen forcasts of this coming resurgance a few times but this does seem to be the strongest showing yet. This is the dormant season for gathering scion wood for grafting. Our extension agent will be offering a couple of grafting workshops again this year. I think this is fairly common, worth checking with your local extension office. We'll sign up again this year, usually you come home with about 5-10 trees and a skill worth knowing.

[rick91351]

I think all our local cider - vinegar plants have shut their doors.  It is too bad however I would think that as trendy as this area is someone should do the same here crafting ciders and vinegars.   

There is a certain need for those old apples - most were breed to store well and cook well some juice very well.  That is why I love those old verities for homestead purposes.  But the newer Honey Crisp is a great new breed.  It's keeping is pretty limited from what I see.  But if they taste good more than likely will not have that problem   

There are also a couple outlets that sell what you get apple trees is you get is what you get apple trees.  No breeding - no promises.  Take them down to the creek and plant them for game crops or food plots if you will.  You might even end up with a couple great apple trees.  I am tempted to do such...... 

[considerations]

That is right..the older varieties were popular because they kept well and made good cider and vinegar. I planted one Fuji...but the rest are old standards...kept dry and cold I have some wrinkly but tasty apples to add to the first rhubarb harvest in spring. And I made a decent batch of cider last fall. Lots of things are not perfect around here..but the apple trees were one of the sucesses.