Author Topic: 1.5 story questions  (Read 5995 times)

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Jared

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1.5 story questions
« on: January 01, 2006, 10:44:05 AM »
Are any of the interior walls load bearing or can I use any layout I prefer?

What about little popouts? Like one for a tv/stereo and stuff? Does that need foundational support or could I just support it like a bay window against the house frame? (Does that make sense at all?) I also need to make a little popout for a washer and dryer and water heater.

Would using 12' studs be any better than using 8' studs and then a 4' knee wall? I'll be doing a platform frame, if it makes any difference.  

Do these plans come with the necessary informatin for the electrician or plumber? Or are they for the real do-it-yourselfer who knows how or is willing to learn how to lay the plumbing and electrical themselves? I'd planned on hiring out the foundation, plumbing and electrical. And the roof.

I know I've asked a lot of questions about a lot of different types of houses, but it's all a work in progress. My wife and I are trying to consider all kinds of plans right now.
Jared

glenn-k

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 11:12:28 AM »
I got part of your answer, Jared - from the plans section, quote:

"Since all floors and roof bear on the outside walls, the interior of the floor plan can be redesigned to your liking. The framing system is simple and economical. The house is designed for small crew construction so it has been built by many owner-builder families who have customized it to their needs. "

Looking at the plans -electric is shown- plumbing fixtures are shown - your plumber may have to make a schematic for the bldg. dept in my past experience unless you know how or want to learn how to do it yourself,  I would say all would be subject to your changes.  Foundations are there also if you want to do that.

I'm sure popouts are possible - not sure about all of Johns considerations for them.  If you get the plans you may also ask all of these questions in plans support for quicker answers also.

Jared

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 01:15:25 PM »
Thanks Glenn. I swear I read the description and don't remember seeing  where it said only the outside walls were bearing. I think I'd like to leave everything the same, except I'd lengthen the front of the house a few feet. The staircase might get moved to the dead center of the house so that it seperates the upstairs perfectly, since I've got to make two rooms upstairs for two girls and a boy, and I want a full bath upstairs with a shower stall. Doing that might take a little work on my part to think about how it has to be done, but I'm sure you people here can help if it's what I decide to do.
Jared

peg_688

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2006, 02:31:31 PM »
Quote
Are any of the interior walls load bearing or can I use any layout I prefer?

What about little popouts? Like one for a tv/stereo and stuff? Does that need foundational support or could I just support it like a bay window against the house frame?  

   You could do it that way for the smal stuff like that, Just put some good trianglar gussets to support the floor, "even if that floor was not at the main floor level but elavated"  , Up to about 18" or so that would work just fine .   Sort of would be cool to keep then tucked in under the main house eave , but a little rooflet could work.


   I also need to make a little popout for a washer and dryer and water heater.


     Now here your looking for floor space , and you could do a 30" or so bump out , you might need to go the a wider/ "2x12 as appossed to a 2x6" say joist or TJI / BCI not sure what John has plugged in for joist , and avoid the foundation.   That size bump out would need a roof , could be a "hip  like bay" or just a little gable .    Of course this adds to over all $ cost where if you where going to have a foundation instead of the post and pier setup your joist would need to be heavier but you'd have increased foundation cost , might be a wash either way but you'd get what you needed , space for justa few more $.

Would using 12' studs be any better than using 8' studs and then a 4' knee wall? I'll be doing a platform frame, if it makes any difference.  



    I'd do the 12' studs with the let in ledger like this , photo sort of shows . [highlight]Avoid hinge points when and where ever possible.[/highlight]  

    


Do these plans come with the necessary informatin for the electrician or plumber?


   I don't know  [highlight]but the biggest deal [/highlight]with the plumber [highlight]for the framer[/highlight] is to [highlight]off set the joist [/highlight]where the toilets / and shower / tubs go. Don't put a joist ,  TJI's even more importantly right under where the drain will require the joist / TJI to be cut .   You can header out regular joists but it's a pain and a real problem to cut the top or bottom of a "I "joists , you can pass thru the web , read manf. spec's for how large ,how often. This may in fact require one more joist to be used , "generally not ",useless your at max span OC for the joist/ "I "Joist your using.

  On the second floor you could have a "step up" into the bathroom and "MIGHT" be able to run your plumbing in that "false " floor and not get into your  first floor ceiling details.    Again planning with the plumber will be key to happiness :)    


I'd planned on hiring out the foundation, plumbing and electrical. And the roof.

 My wife and I are trying to consider all kinds of plans right now.


     Good plans , IMO , look at options , see what will work best.   Find out what can be done before you start , so your always going forward once the $$ start to flow .      Hope this helps good luck , PEG
  
Jared

Jared

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2006, 04:53:18 PM »
As far as floor joists go, I'm most likely going to do a pad  for soundproofing and what I think is better insulation. So the only help I'll need is with the upstairs potty, sink and shower stall. Any way the pipes could go through an exterior wall? Or is that just asking for them to get frozen in bad weather?
Jared

glenn-k

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2006, 05:27:49 PM »
It looks like there is room with planning to get your pipes into the space between the floor joists and from there down through the lower 2x6 walls.  John has a bit of an allowance to shift the joist slightly if necessary to avoid plumbing.

If you are using a slab on grade then popouts shouldn't be much problem.  

Looks like PEG has given you some good advice on the rest.

peg_688

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2006, 08:55:32 PM »
Quote
As far as floor joists go, I'm most likely going to do a pad  for soundproofing and what I think is better insulation. So the only help I'll need is with the upstairs potty, sink and shower stall. Any way the pipes could go through an exterior wall? Or is that just asking for them to get frozen in bad weather?
Jared


  Your issues are [highlight]not so much with the going down part of the pipes[/highlight] as in the [highlight]getting to the wall  thru the floor[/highlight] , either interior or exterior with the waste lines from the toilet and the shower / or tub .

  That's the raised floor in the upstairs bathroom idea , and planning w/ the plumber to put the issue fixtures close to the wall (downward path for the waste pipes ) .
     If you currently live or rent a house that you can got into the crawl space on, go do it and find the bath rooms , Those waste lines are what you'll need to hide in the upstairs bathroom  unless you don't nind exposed pipes. In a cabin some can put up with it , other / wife's mostly can't .  

    I'll try to remember to take a few picture this week to show you what your'll be dealing with.  PEG  

Amanda_931

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2006, 08:58:16 PM »
Not sure what part of the country you're in, but even here not far from the Alabama border, I'd wonder if plumbing under a pop-out might tend to freeze more easily than that under the house--especially with a basement or even a crawl-space.

Don't think it would hurt a TV, or even a stove.

glenn-k

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2006, 10:49:22 PM »
I agree that it will take planning, PEG, but it will fit between the 12" floor joists and the floor above and the ceiling below as long as it is in an area that has a ceiling below to hide it.  Closet flange and bend can be done in 8" below the floor leaving 3 1/2 " to 4" for slope.  Even in the middle of a 20' wide it is only 10' to the side wall requiring 2 1/2" of slope on a 3" waste pipe-  in the worst case, a vent could come off at a 45 and still have room for it's required upward slope - with good planning as you mentioned it should never get as bad as that though.  Once it gets to the side the 3" will fit inside the 2x6 wall just fine.  Going through interior walls below could make it even easier.  Planning does have to be done to miss the joists as you mentioned.  I have plumbed 6 houses start to finish, several shops and a few commercial buildings, along with re-plumbing several remodels. I know enough about it to do it and pass inspections without re-doing anything.  I have the 1 1/2 story plans in front of me less Jared's modifications of course.  It is possible that upstairs plumbing and downstairs plumbing could go into the same wall also making plumbing easier and using less material.  Depends on the final chosen layout.

As PEG says, yes -- it is good to have the plumber in the same boat with you- things will go much smoother.

Plumbing in the slab has to be accurate as it doesn't move well. As in demolition hammer to move it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 11:23:54 PM by glenn-k »

peg_688

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 06:01:03 AM »
Quote
I agree that it will take planning, PEG, but it will fit between the 12" floor joists and the floor above and the ceiling below as long as it is in an area that has a ceiling below to hide it.  Closet flange and bend can be done in 8" below the floor leaving 3 1/2 " to 4" for slope.  Even in the middle of a 20' wide it is only 10' to the side wall requiring 2 1/2" of slope on a 3" waste pipe-  in the worst case, a vent could come off at a 45 and still have room for it's required upward slope - with good planning as you mentioned it should never get as bad as that though.  Once it gets to the side the 3" will fit inside the 2x6 wall just fine.  Going through interior walls below could make it even easier.  Planning does have to be done to miss the joists as you mentioned.  I have plumbed 6 houses start to finish, several shops and a few commercial buildings, along with re-plumbing several remodels. I know enough about it to do it and pass inspections without re-doing anything.  I have the 1 1/2 story plans in front of me less Jared's modifications of course.  It is possible that upstairs plumbing and downstairs plumbing could go into the same wall also making plumbing easier and using less material.  Depends on the final chosen layout.

As PEG says, yes -- it is good to have the plumber in the same boat with you- things will go much smoother.

Plumbing in the slab has to be accurate as it doesn't move well. As in demolition hammer to move it.


  Your right  BUT the raised floor above in one room upstrairs hides all that plumbing [highlight]without [/highlight]the hoop jumping on the grd. floor . Nice clean ceiling can be kept thru out lower level.   The plan shown on the site shows what look like beams with a T&G floor/ ceiling like we've talked about before , makes a nice look but the plumbing can be a issue.

  Take that floor system out and go to joist 16"OC witha S/R lid and no major plumbing worries . There is always ANOTHER WAY to do it.  

  Figuring out which ONE way the person asking wants to do it , now that's the major hoop jump ;)  

  And the slab consept was brought up after the floor joist missing the plumbing answer was given :(

   Jareds orginal post talked about a foundation  not slab on grade .  

  Just tryng to cover all the bases that he seemed to be asking about , but in fact was not even considering, it seems :-[  

glenn-k

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 08:15:25 AM »
Covering all bases sounds like a good plan PEG. :)  It's obvious that you spend a lot of time figuring out the members problems or possible problems and coming up with various solutions and if you didn't have the experience you wouldn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.  Thanks for being :) a great resource to this forum.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 08:53:30 AM by glenn-k »

peg_688

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 09:46:57 AM »
Quote
Covering all bases sounds like a good plan PEG. :)  It's obvious that you spend a lot of time figuring out the members problems or possible problems and coming up with various solutions and if you didn't have the experience you wouldn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.  Thanks for being :) a great resource to this forum.


   Ah shucks :-[ :-[, just when I was ready to go on a RANT ::) PEG

Jared

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2006, 09:52:51 AM »
Sorry about the confusion re: the foundation/slab on grade. I'm not in the construction business, so to me "foundation" is a generic term for what's under a house. Now I'll remember to specify slab on grade or crawlspace. Now, as for the roof, I'll just go with sheetrock instead of the tongue and groove flooring. For a few reasons: I've got three kids and sometimes four, so I want carpet upstairs, not hardwood. I want to deaden the sound as much as possible. That's probably something else I should've mentioned at first. It's just that right now I'm not thinking about details like carpeting yet. I'm still thinking about the big things like plumbing and electrical, etc.
The floor plan I've drawn up now doesn't have the bathrooms exactly lined up. I've drawn one with a garden tub in a pop-out and one with a shower stall in the pop-out. One problem I've got right now is the staircase is cutting my bedroom door in half. So once I get it all figured out and get that Irfanview thing, I'll post a plan. Thanks!
Jared

glenn-k

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2006, 10:07:46 AM »
I was just trying to cover all bases, PEG. ;D

Jared - it sounds like you may want sheetrock -(gypsum wall board) for your ceilings and possibly OSB or other 4x8 sheets with T&G edges on the floors to be carpeted.  The  T&G edges keep the edges of the sheets from working up and down separately as you walk near them.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 10:11:13 AM by glenn-k »

Jared

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 01:54:04 PM »
Glenn - Thanks for the advice on the T&G plywood for the floors. It's one more thing I didn't know that I'll put in my notebook that I'm using as my long-term memory. (I've got a Fat Lil' Notebook as my short-term, and now a regular sized notebook as my long-term. Isn't that sad?) We've still got til AT LEAST the middle of next year before we start building, so I've got time to do some designs and redesigns.
Jared

Jared

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2006, 08:43:55 AM »
If I were to draw the plans for the 1.5 story exactly as they appear on the webpage, how long would the stairs from the landing to the upstairs be? I'm (obviously) trying to replicate that lay out, but I'd like to do it without the pocket door. And in drawing the upstairs portion, would the floor opening that allows the stairs to come up extend all the way to the wall? Or would there be some space between the wall and the floor opening? Just needing to know so I know how to draw the upstairs. Or better yet, will Irfanview take that picture on the website and convert it to the format that I need for 3DHA? I'm looking at lengthening it so I can (at a later date) make an addition to the house so it forms a "T". The addition will be on the side of the house that has the bathroom and stairs.
Jared
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 09:04:04 AM by Jared »

glenn-k

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2006, 10:11:05 AM »
Here is a link to information John posted that should help you understand how to figure the length of stairs and will be valuable to you to know when you actually build.  It's so much up for so much over- usually about 7 - 7 3/4 up for each 10 over - the numbers can vary some within the code depending on your actual needs.  The article will explain that I think.

Stairway Information

Irfanview just makes a picture I am pretty sure - data from the drawing will not be included.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 10:12:08 AM by glenn-k »

Jimmy_Cason

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« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 11:41:23 AM by Jimmy_Cason »

jraabe

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2006, 04:01:40 PM »
The 1-1/2 story plan has details for a standard 16" o/c joist and plywood subfloor AND/OR a double joist (trimmed out for a poor man's beam) at 48" o/c w/ exposed 2x6 T&G decking above. The detail shows how to adjust these areas as desired and keep the floor level the same. You can do part one way and part the other. The ceiling feels considerably higher in the beam and deck areas. And the wood look can be handsome.

However, you will have an easier time using the joists and plywood under plumbed areas. There is room to route the waste stacks into the wall where they can be insulated for sound and thermal efficiency. You only need to worry about supply lines and freezing. Waste stacks are normally not a concern. (Anybody from Winnipeg care to differ? We might learn something here  ;)) Supply lines should be fully inside the insulated shell.

Stairway? The cottage stair shown in the floor plan has 24" of treads on one side and 48" on the other side of the landing. The booklet that comes with the plans has two more options, one of which will usually satisfy even picky inspectors (and is recommended if you are going to a full length loft on the upper floor). Cottage stairs are great, but if you are hauling king sized bedroom furniture around you will appreciate a full code stairway.

Jared

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Re: 1.5 story questions
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2006, 07:44:08 PM »
So what're the options if you're going to do a full loft upstairs? Are the stairs in the same place? A full loft is necessary because of our three (sometimes 4) kids.
Jared

 

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