another generator thread

[das fisch]

So at the new place in the mtns of western Maine up near MaineRhino, we'll be running a generator for basic electric needs until one day we gather enough cash to install a solar system.
We'll be needing to run the following:
-a few lights (with compact flourescent's)
-a couple outlets for occasional needs (nightlight for the kids, maybe charge a phone, maybe a coffee maker once in a while, small tv/dvd)
-shallow well pump (dug well, less than 25ft to pressure tank)
-ceiling fan to circulate heat from woodstove

So not that much in the grand scheme of things. We have a gas fridge, am planning on a gas tankless water heater, gas stove, a few gas lights. and this is definitely a camp, not a second home by any means.
many folks have been pushing the honda's eu series; 2,000 to be exact. would this be enough to keep us going. i like the fact we could purchase a second and run it in parrallel if necessary.
this will be run into an exterior plug and then into the breaker panel. We will have a few 100lb propane tanks, so a gas fired genie would be an option too. how are these as far as noise and longevity?
thanks

[MountainDon]

I like all quiet generators and the Honda EU series is very good.

Question though. Are you planning on some batteries and an inverter as well and using the generator now and then to charge the batteries? Or just the generator and have it run any time power is needed?  If the plan is to use the little generator, like an EU2000 to charge the batteries you will want a charger to use rather than the small DC output from the EU.

On using a "plug in"... RV dealers can supply boxes that house a twist lock grounded male connector with a cover flap. A cord can then be safely used to connect the generator to the building. Keep it far enough away so there's little chance of exhaust getting inside.  If you're a handy sort you can also make up your own connection box. I did that years ago on our RV. Plugs and receptacles are available at any good electrical supply. The ready made RV and Marine types are spendy.


Propane fueled generators are nice in that you can do away with liquid gasoline, change oil less often even. No worries about gasoline in the tank gumming up. Multi fuel generators do not produce as much power on propane as they do on gasoline. That's because the engine is less efficient on propane than on gas. IF it was a propane only generator with the engine built for the purpose they become more efficient, but can not run on gasoline. Not many of those around in small sizes.

They may not run well, or at all, in cold weather if being fueled from a small poetable cylinder (20-40 lbs). See What I've Learned About Propane and Portable Cylinders 100 pounderes are good, but heavy work hauling; different story if all the propane was run off a 250 gal or larger ground tank.

[MountainDon]

I asked about batteries as they would permit operating lights without the need to run the generator. Even a small microwave is feasible off an inverter. Me, I don't like running generators for an electrical source. That's my opinion, developed over years of dry camping in the RV where a generator was used way too often to keep the batteries up. Others don't agree with me; that's fine. I do have a small PV panel that can keep those batteries floated when we are not using the RV. That works right through the winter.

One concern about using batteries with no PV or alternate input like wind is that it is all too easy to run the batteries down low. That shortens their life. A lot.

I don't know if you are aware, so I'll mention this just in case. The 12 VDC output of the EU type generators is not all that great for battery charging. There is no charge regulator so a battery could be overcharged and yet the charger output is so low that the generator has to run overly long to get a full to the top charge. (2000 series 8 amps and 12 amps on the 3000 series IIRC.)  A much better idea is to use a good high output charger like the Iota chargers. Charge time is much faster, they make several sizes so matching to the battery capacity is simple enough. The generator runs fewer hours, although at higher speed.

I also get annoyed at manually starting the small generators. Especially so if the generator must run to power things like the microwave. But that's me. Honda makes an electric start EU3000.


And remember that a well designed PV system really does not need a generator.

[Squirl]

Your load needs sound very small for most of the time you are there. A 2000 series seems like more than enough. A generator/battery inverter combo would probably suit your needs too, seeing as you seem to desire to use small loads continuously throughout the day.

The Honda generators are great, but expensive.  IIRC M.S.R.P. is around $1100.  I went with a cheap, loud, and heavy Harbor Freight model.  I use it only for tools, because I was able to sink the other $900 I would have spent into a very simple solar setup to power the lights and electronics.

[das fisch]

you know, I hadn't given much thought to batteries just yet as I had just put them under the heading with solar.
Squirl, any chance to get more info on the simple solar setup you used? even with the expensive honda genie's if I can avoid having the hum going all the time, especially at night that would be great.

[MountainDon]

Run the pv calc for the loads you'd run and see how far a couple of golf cart batteries would take you. I ran two in the RV for years when we mainly powered just a few lights and a small LCD TVDVD combo for the odd DVD movie and the furnace on a cold night. Generator time was only a couple hours a day

[Squirl]

 First I got one of those simple HF 45 watt assemblies. That was $150.  I also got a 50 watt panel and charge controller.  That was about $180 off eBay.  The set came with two 5 watt 12v dc lights.  I got a 12v marine battery from wally world for $70.  I also got a 200w plug in inverter for $15.  So I have about $415 into the whole setup for around 100 watts.  In my area in the summer I get about 3-5 sun hours a day.

My place is pretty small.  I have two 5 watt lights a laptop and a phone charger as my only usual power needs.  My phone is kind of an entire entertainment system. So 300-500 watt hours of power is more than enough for me.  I charge the battery and bring it in at night to power the "shed".  Sometimes I can go all weekend and not run it down more than 15% on a single charge.  I went with the cheap wally world battery because it was more of a practice setup and it was convenient.  I think taking small steps into solar rather than going in with deep pockets is a fine approach.  Here is a good article on a small cheap setup.  http://www.otherpower.com/wardsolar.html  This was written a few years back when components were much more expensive.  My next step up would probably be 2- 6 volt Trojans for around $240, 2 more panels from Sun Elec for around $400, a c40 charge controller for around $120 and I am still debating on inverters.  So I everything without the inverter would upgrade to about $760 for an average of 1 KWhours per day.  I worked pretty hard to cut down on my electric waste and even at some of the houses I lived at I was able to get myself under 100 KWH a month. 

My neighbor across the road simply charges his batteries at home and brings them with him.  He normally brings 4- 6-volt Trojans and I have not seen or heard a generator. 

[zion-diy]

me, I'd go with a 400 dollar chink 4000 watt generator w/ electric start. then spend the rest of the money you saved by not buying a honda to purchase at least one 125 watt solar panel and a few 6v golf cart batts. seems like you'd have the best of both worlds that way. plus you'd have a 220v outlet should the need arise in the future. I bought one of these generators last year and was pleasantly surprised at how quiet they are now. since it needs to be away from your dwelling for carbon monoxide reasons, I fail to see the need for a whisper quiet generator.

[upa]

Thought I would throw my two bits in.

Currently my solar 100 watt panel setup is still inadequte but I do have 500amp/hr of battery(12v) and a decent 1.8k inveter. Generally if i am away the panels recharge the bank after several days. But when I am at the cabin for several days my power consumption is in the negative at around 2kW/day. Typically I have to supplement with generator. I previously used my 3kw champion generator and required it to run it roughly 5 hours a day to recharge the batteries with a 25 amp charger or $5-6 in gas. In theory it could likely easily support a 45-55 amp Iota charger for faster charging(~3hrs) .

I now run a Yamaha Ef2000is inverter generator, it normally runs at 1/4 speed and is super quiet (51.5db vs the champion's 69+db) and very thrifty on the fuel. Running it for 5 hours only cost about $1.50. Based on my typical yearly usage this represents about $240/year savings in fuel alone, not to mention the saving to my hearing. In my case the payback in fuel saving covered the upfront cost difference between a typical synchronous chinese gas genny($300) and a good quality Japanese inverter($879 for both honda or yamaha 2K inverter best internet price) My payback period is somewhere between 2-3 years.

Incidentally, there are cheaper Chinese inverters available($300-500) but honestly I don't think they are anything close to the quality of the Japanese models, maybe someday. I did run a Champion 2K inverter for about 6 months until the inverter circuit board unexpectedly died.

[Dave Sparks]

The Mountains of Maine sound like any PV that you do must be done seriously and and not with toy solar kits from Costco.

My reccomended dealer for generators is in your state. They are the only ones that Honda will give warranty on for propane modification. (that I know) They have others also. My clients have been using these folks with zero problems for a long time! They are not cheap but that is not what you want up there, I would think.  Good Luck!

http://www.generatorsales.com/