Egypt

[sparks]

  A bit over two weeks of turmoil/revolution now. People taking over in the streets. People are dying. Murbarak hunkering down and holding fast. The people saying he must go. The stand off is coming to a boil.

  I can't put a poll up here......just gonna ask....

  What do you think about this ?



sparks

[peternap]

Looks like it's gonna be a hot time in the ol town tonight!

[Woodsrule]

It appears that Egypt is heading for trouble. First, the new dictator will be a bit too friendly with the military folks, suggesting that strict rule is headed for the Egyptians. That means, unfortunately, that the public there may get more than they bargained for. I hope for the best for their sake, but I'm not sure that their lot is going to improve.

[peternap]

There is a darn good stream here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[rwanders]

I think we sometimes forget the track records of "revolutions" throughout history and assume they will or can result in an American style democratic republic-----actually that rarely happens. French revolution quickly degenerated into The Terror and thence to the Napoleonic Empire; The English revolted and also killed their king and quickly degenerated into the Cromwell tyranny; numerous popular revolutions in Mexico, Central and South America just exchanged one dictator for another; other examples include at least two revolutions in China---Sun Yat Sens and Mao's, a few in Japan, several in Southeast Asia and of course all of those in Europe around 1848. More recent examples can be found in the former soviet republics and of course, we can't forget the many examples on the African continent. Even our own narrowly avoided an early death due to the Civil War.  Western style liberal democracies are not really that popular with much of the world----it really is a "jungle out there".

[peternap]

I think we sometimes forget the track records of "revolutions" throughout history and assume they will or can result in an American style democratic republic-----actually that rarely happens. French revolution quickly degenerated into The Terror and thence to the Napoleonic Empire; The English revolted and also killed their king and quickly degenerated into the Cromwell tyranny; numerous popular revolutions in Mexico, Central and South America just exchanged one dictator for another; other examples include at least two revolutions in China---Sun Yat Sens and Mao's, a few in Japan, several in Southeast Asia and of course all of those in Europe around 1848. More recent examples can be found in the former soviet republics and of course, we can't forget the many examples on the African continent. Even our own narrowly avoided an early death due to the Civil War War of Northern Aggression.  Western style liberal democracies are not really that popular with much of the world----it really is a "jungle out there".

I agree with the one common mistake I corrected for you
OTOH, whatever they end up with there, is over there. We have our own problems.

[archimedes]

I think we sometimes forget the track records of "revolutions" throughout history and assume they will or can result in an American style democratic republic-----actually that rarely happens. French revolution quickly degenerated into The Terror and thence to the Napoleonic Empire; The English revolted and also killed their king and quickly degenerated into the Cromwell tyranny; numerous popular revolutions in Mexico, Central and South America just exchanged one dictator for another; other examples include at least two revolutions in China---Sun Yat Sens and Mao's, a few in Japan, several in Southeast Asia and of course all of those in Europe around 1848. More recent examples can be found in the former soviet republics and of course, we can't forget the many examples on the African continent. Even our own narrowly avoided an early death due to the Civil War.  Western style liberal democracies are not really that popular with much of the world----it really is a "jungle out there".

Very true. 

Don't forget too, that our first attempt at government failed under The Aritcles of Confederation - to later be replaced with our current Constitutional Republic.   

Best wishes and congrats to the Egyptians,  but the path ahead is full of dangers.

[considerations]

I shudder to think what would happen here if an equal proportion of the population showed up in DC trying to get a real democracy going in the US.

[Pox Eclipse]

I would note that this revolution was accomplished with little shedding of the blood of either tyrants or patriots, and few (if any) of the revolutionaries needed guns to overthrow a military dictatorship.  The Facebook is mightier than the sword.

[glenn kangiser]

I believe it was similar to our elections where a leader is installed through fraudulent means but the people got their fill of it and revolted. Actually more of a police state with Mubarak and the police fairly brutally controlling and abusing the people.  

The Egyptian Military however recognized the genuine gripes of the people and refused to fire on them as MubaraK wished... unlike the police as well as hired goons (supporters of Mubarak) who killed and brutalized some .  The people respected the military for their actions and support and welcomed the Military takeover rather than Mubarak who is sold out to US/Israel at the expense of his people.  Sounds like another country I know.

Israel BTW sent in plane loads of crowd control weapons for Mubarak to use against his citizens.

Guns were there.... big guns but they were not used.  

In the end it was a military coup upholding the wishes of the people that sent Mubarak packing down the road.

[rwanders]

It was almost bloodless but, I believe a critical component was actually the support or at least the non-belligerent status of the Egyptian military towards the protesters. Mubarack gave it up when the Generals told him it was time to go------that in no way diminishes the determination or courage of the population. Egypt has earned a good and rare chance for a freer society------now we will see if they can keep it.

[sparks]

I find it somewhat amazing that a country/people with several thousand years of history behind them is making new history. The whole world is watching. And waiting. Maybe....just maybe, this is what mankind has been looking for.

But then again, it could also be...... "meet the new boss......same as the old boss"



sparks

[glenn kangiser]

We had a guest from Egypt recently - Very nice young Muslim fellow - Dr Ahmed who recommended catfish for my pond.  Great person and happy to call him a friend.  He also invited us to come visit him at his home in Egypt.

I think if the people had not held firm and allowed Mubarak to stay they would be in for punishment as shown by his bringing in the payed thugs to support him, again without concern for the welfare of the people.

[glenn kangiser]

Hard to tell what is working in the background here too.  One of the main places I go for world opinion from knowledgeable people has been down for a few days.

It doesn't like like one of the  typical US regime changes as there are too many things the US and Israel did not want happening, or at least that they are worried a bit about.

[Don_P]

Now to see if the military will step aside when the time comes and if the people can forward some better alternatives.

[glenn kangiser]

Looks like intent is so far, good.  I guess we will see.

Headed by a longtime Mubarak loyalist, 75-year-old Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces was expected to make a statement about its plans to form a transitional government.

So far, it has given little clue as to the direction it will take. In its third statement since announcing that it was taking charge, it said simply that it would respect the mood of the newly energized street.

The council "will issue further statements that will announce forthcoming steps, measures and arrangements, and it affirms at the same time that it is not a replacement for the legitimacy that is acceptable to the people."

If the generals go back on their word, the protests could start again.

"We're waiting for a new statement from the army," said Mohammed Rida, a 26-year-old activist. "We don't want to be ruled by the military. We want a coalition government with experienced figures."

Suleiman Mahmud, 53, a freelance translator and tour guide, sounded an optimistic note about the army's plans.

"They're going to hold the country for a transition period. After this there will be a free vote in which everyone will be able to take part," he predicted.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=359192

[glenn kangiser]

Another view of behind the scenes workings...

http://www.rense.com/general92/icke.htm

[considerations]

My observation of power is that seldom does a person/entity relinquish it willingly.  The army? Fascinating that the army "taking over" seems better to at least some of the citizens than the former president.   I'd be very skeptical, and cautious. 

[glenn kangiser]

What if something like this were to happen in the US?  

Obama speaking to Congress about it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLbWnJGlyMU&feature=player_embedded

[peternap]

Glenn, I don't know if you caught it or not....but Obama praised the people for taking their destiny in their own hands. I was glad I wasn't near him because I was sure lightening was about to strike. 

[glenn kangiser]

I try to miss anything he says as I am annoyed by puppetspeak, but glad you let me know.