Chicken Coop Lighting

Started by apiratelooksat40, December 29, 2010, 10:14:36 AM

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apiratelooksat40

So, my industrious nephew has taken to raising Guinea Fowl, Turkeys, and Chickens for Meat and Eggs - partly after my showing him a number of Sustainable Living sites such as this one and Mother Earth News. 

He's done a great job, constructing his own Coop, Pen, and area for the birds to be able to free-range and forrage.  One issue he came to me with was that of Lighting his Coop for the late dawns and early dusks this time of the year to try to pick up his egg production. 

His Coop is too far from his home to realistically run 120V to for a light so I began thinking of Solar alternatives to put him into an inexpensive solution to his problem while providing the extra "daylight" the birds need.  After reading thru the Off-Grid posts, the Christmas Light Post (Mtn. Don, I'm hijacking your idea for lighting a path to our to-be-constructed-this-spring-outhouse!) I knew CP would be a great resource, and I figured many heads are better than just my soft one.

Any thoughts for a potential solution would be greatly appreciated!
Last Night....
I Shot 6 Holes in my Freezer
I think I've got Cabin Fever
Somebody Sound the Alarm....

MountainDon

Have a look at the off grid christmas lights thread

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10004.msg128161#msg128161

Rob_O supplied a couple links on rewiring a 120 VAC light string for use on low voltage (battery). A small panel and battery set powering a string or two would supply all the light needed I would think, and without the need/loss of an inverter.

Just remember AC switches don't last long on DC. 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


apiratelooksat40

Thanks, Don.

I've been following that thread and think it has potential.  One of the Challenges in both maintaing the birds AND the battery is that of timing the lights.  He's thinking of adding 6-8 hours (3-4 in the am, 3-4 in the pm) to the birds' days. 

I've found 12V timers to be a bit pricey for this application.  One option I thought was an inexpensive 2-4 watt panel, tied to a battery with an inexpensive inverter attached.  From there, plug in an off-the-shelf light timer, and a string of LED's.  The inverter shouldn't need to be much of one, and the battery will have most of the day for the panel to top it off.  Hopefully no need for a charge controller in this application because the panel would be intentionally small and the lights giving the battery enough of a workout each day to eliminate the worry of overcharging.  Just don't yet know what I don't know. 

This is also going to be a fun experiment for me, as I start experimenting before my own Cabin Electrical system is established....
Last Night....
I Shot 6 Holes in my Freezer
I think I've got Cabin Fever
Somebody Sound the Alarm....

MountainDon

DC switching costs more as it isn't as common and needs much heavier mechanical contacts. A cheap inverter would eliminate that need for special DC equipment that's for sure.

I haven't taken time to run load calculations. But most likely a small panel, say 15 watts or so would work. You can find small cheap controllers offered with a small panel at times. I have one I got from Northern tool for around a hundred bucks total a few years ago. It keeps the RV batteries up over winter. Actually I have two 15 watt panels as there are trees that shade them some.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

rick91351

It might be a stretch and a try but I have heard using a kerosene lantern will go the trick.  Plus adds warmth to the coop.  I would think you would need to hang it such a way that is not going to get knocked off.  I think I would use a quarter-inch chain and a halter snap and hang it down from the ceiling.

I think I would choose a Dietz Jupiter Hurricane Oil Lantern, you can get them from Lehman's for less that $20.  That model when filled correctly will burn about 72 hours on one filling.  Another choice would be the Dietz D-Lite.  It too is less than $20.         

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Lamps_Lights___Lanterns___Dietz___Dietz_Jupiter_Hurricane_Oil_Lantern___jupiter?Args=
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Lamps_Lights___Lanterns___Dietz___Dietz_D_Lite_Lantern___3790BG?Args=

They do not put out a lot of light.  If you never have been around a kerosene lantern do not expect a pressurized Coleman white gas lantern.  The Jupiter will put out some light, it is a more soft non-intrusive light.  (Some of the old ranchers use to tell me they really liked them when they were having to calve and lamb at night in the winter time, because light did not stir up the mothers so much as when you turned in the electric lights.  And the heat was pretty nice for the hands after you have had to help a mother with a new-born lamb or calf. ; ) .

Just a suggestion.   
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


Squirl

I would recommend against the Kerosene lantern option.  The fire hazard seems to great.  Also it seems like it would be a pain in the butt to light/snuff every day.  It is easier to use a switch.  If you are going to go that route, just buy the same Lantern at Wally world for $5.  I have purchased from Lehman's and the stuff is the same made in china stuff at Wal-Mart.

I have the Harbor Freight 45 watt solar panel kit for my shed and it works great.  I would recommend it.  It comes with two bright 5 watt DC lights, controller, panels, and switch.  You can find coupons in magazines like field and stream and other advertisements for $150 for the whole kit.  So it comes with a DC socket if you want to add an inverter. I have found 100 watt DC/AC inverters at stores for $10.  This is more than enough to power a simple light socket and 11 watt CF bulb.  You can use a $10 120 volt DC timer. 

I know the timers use electricity, but I don't know how much the small inverters uses when not in use.  They don't normally have fans, so I can't image them using a lot of power.  I left out the cost of the battery, because in all off grid electric setups, it seems to be a given constant.

Rob_O

Off the top of my head...

20 watt solar panel $100
Deep cycle battery $100
100W inverter $20
digital timer $20
7 or 13 watt CFL bulb and wiring $10

That will give the chickens plenty of light, and won't need much more maintenance than the occasional light bulb change for the next 3 or 4 years.
"Hey Y'all, watch this..."

UK4X4

#7
I think your over complicating things with invertors etc

how much light would you need ?

12 LED lights are low current and bright

heres a cheap 12V timer............yep the time on is too short

but you can use it to latch a relay on, and on the next cycle, latch the relay off

Just use a couple of 12V car relays from your local car shop

size of panel an battery size for your load, probably a 50w att would be overkill and a deep cycle battery from wally world while your in there

getting some 12V RV puck lights or even two of these in series

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Grip-72-LED-Light-Bar-Magnetic-Back-37199/15573735



http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Solar-Panel-Battery-Timer-Kit-AAHSBTK

you would need to test the current consumption of the two lights. work out the hours per day you need them on to size the battery

this whole kit may even do what you want

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Solar-Panel-Battery-Timer-Kit-AAHSBTK

this timer is not that bad if you counted timer V's timer and invertor

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/catalog/electrical.htm



you have to start from the load and work backwards

here's something I wrote at work:


As with most things in solar power, equipment load is not always as it seems

What is written on appliances is often not what the equipment actually draws

but is the rating of the power supply suitably big enough to power the item with some spare.

So when you take your 8 amp computer power supply off and measure its actual draw
its usually surprisingly less.

So the preferred method is to measure actual power consumption in order to make the system
as efficient and compact as you can.

Beware with laptops and other computing gear as depending on their operational status, power consumption changes, try and use the equipment in the same state as you would expect it to be in general use.

So in our test install we intend to have two NHQG gauges, a Uniconn system running
both an Ifield and standard communications card.

Being that you can't separate the individual items and the Uniconn just has a generic wattage as per its datasheet

o AC: 100–250 V rms, 1A, 50/60 Hz (300 V rms max. over-range)
o DC: 24 V +/– 2%, 2 A

When this was measured with both gauges connected in the workshop and the fan on

It was seen under test to only consume 0.7 amps at 24 volts

Others reported seeing a higher amperage on other installed systems and a 1.5amp capable supply was deemed sufficient for the Uniconn, gauges and cards.








Power system design                





As with many engineering solutions there is no one factual way of doing it
a solar power system has many nuances from the capturing a natural entity and estimates in how efficient your panel will be on day 1 or 2 years down the road, losses in cabling and the consumption of the charge controller.

There are general guidelines and work methods to design your system so that it functions
and checks that can be done when the system is installed or at least tested in conditions similar
to where it will be finally installed.

Here is the worked example using data from the previous sections

According to the product data sheet the unit would consume 2 amps for every hour the unit was going to operate, but our test was 0.7 amps, so lets take a mid route to insure we have
sufficient power, but not end up with a huge array

1.5 amps X 24 hrs = 36 AH/day

Sunlight was determined for the area of installation at 5.5 hrs per day

So in order for the system to function for 24hrs a day

I will need the solar panels to provide 36 amps in 5.5 hrs

Panels are sold with many different output voltages and currents depending on the physical
quantity and efficiency of the individual cells and are usually listed by Power
ie 1 off 180 watt panel

So we need to change our AH/day to power in order to choose a suitable panel

36 amps required/ 5.5 hours  = 6.5 amps per hour at 24 volts

P=VI

Power required would be 24V X 6.5 amps= 156 watts required



Being that panels never come in exactly the
power you require, you may need to use one
greater to or just smaller than you require.


With that we have already taken liberties with higher than the required amps V's measured
and lowering the max sun...from 5.9 to 5.5 our system is over specification for now.

We can be pretty sure that if we use 150 watts of solar power we should be fine.

As an example if we had gone with measured Uniconn ampage at 0.7 amps...the solar array would have only required 73 watts of power, so we should be good stead.


Here is an example of a power calculation done for an earlier project in Venezuela
Where multiple items were going to be powered by the system a higher safety margin would be required with the multiple items being used


Item   Description   Voltage    Power   Current
Max   Hours per day   AH/DAY
1   DTS 320   1 channel   24   25   1.0   24   25
2   Scada pack   24   0.4   0.017   24   0.4
3   12-24V transformer   24       0.1   24   2.4
4   Radio   24   0.25   0.015   24   0.5
5   Chiller   24   25   1.0   6   6.25
6   Radio Transmitting   24   30   1.25   8   10
7   Gauges    24       0.06   24   1.44
   3.5       47.99

A Total of 47.99 amps required per day
      47.99 / 4.5(Max power hours per day) =10.66 amps / Hour required

      2 off 150-watt panels will produce;   
      150W / 24V X 2 =12.5 AH
      12.5 amps X 4.5 Hrs =  56.25 amps as a nominal current produced
   
      

      




Batteries


      
Battery bank sizing can be one of the more complex and important calculations in your system design. If the battery bank is oversized, you risk not being able to keep it fully charged; if the battery bank is sized too small, you won't be able to run your intended loads for as long as you'd planned

Never an easy thing to specify as there are so many types, makes and technologies available
      
So we'll just start with the basics.
      
We want to do two things, have the system operate every day, keeping the battery in good   condition, and have a system reserve for those days with no sunlight due to storms or sand.

So whichever type of battery you choose you need to find out the discharge capacity the battery prefers and its ultimate discharge level before it gets damaged.

All batteries have a shorter life span the deeper the discharge , so a nominal percentage for the average AGM is <30% discharge on a regular basis.

Temperature too effects battery life and efficiency, a 10% margin is again added for overly hot or cold condition's

The battery reserve needs to be considered too for those weather anomalies and sand storms that for us were a concern

4 days no sun is a pretty standard battery reserve for remote SCADA or acquisition systems and often specified in solar powered projects

You can then use this data to size your system










So going back to our original Uniconn system requirements and adding in our preferred battery state.

Using a 2 days reserve as we are in a desert situation rather than temperate zone
In Normal operating the battery only discharges by 30%
and a 10% reduction in efficiency for winter or high temperatures
      

      36 AH/Day x 2 days x 1.3(Normal discharge) x 1.1(Reduction)
= 103 amp hour battery


      The system installed housed 2 off 12V 105AH batteries wired in series
producing 24Volts
      
      
The supplier however used a different method of calculating the battery size
With a selection of factors

Battery aging factor
Low temperature capacity compensation factor
Design margin
Minimum state of charge at the end of autonomy period
      Battery Inefficiency factor

They had the same battery size in the end but is listed as three days reserve in the datasheets.


thats my rough way of doing it- there are many ways !




Squirl

My understanding is that this will be around you in New Hampshire.  Many of the calculations I have seen are under sizing panels for that location.  The solar system is only necessary when the days are darkest and gloomiest with the shortest hours of day light. My other assumption is that this is a small sized coop (10x12), not an industrial house. So even if you went with the DC lighting option at 5W, you would need 30 watt hours per day.  If you went with a 13 watt CFL you would need 78 watt hours per day. This is just a rough estimate without additional losses for the inverter and timer.  The winter sun hours for your area is similar to the one I deal with in upstate NY, 1.5-2 hours average per day.  So a 20 watt panel would average 30 watt hours per day.

Also when you add the cost of the inverter and AC timer, the DC timer may be worth it.  I just don't know the phantom load of either.
For the battery I would just go with a deep cycle marine from Wally world.  For $70 it will last a few years because I don't expect you will be deep discharging with a small lighting system. Also the store has a pretty good return policy, so if you are just learning and you destroy it, you can exchange it for a new one.  They are rated for 105 amp hours at 12 volts or approximately 1260 watt hours.  Remember the less you discharge them the longer they last.  You could always skip the solar system all together and just schlep the battery once a week to/from an A/C charger, but it is heavy and it would die faster.

All these calculations are rough estimates. I always want to slightly oversize a system because it seems that I always have slight loses in use, and not as great of a gain as my estimates.



zion-diy

I don't know about practicality, but I just use cheap 100 foot extension cords to run a pair of light bulbs in my pump house... 485 feet from the house. just tape the plugs together and run it on the ground. has worked fine for 5 years now. just enough heat to prevent freezing. I was concerned about voltage drop, but, one year it got down to single digits, so I added a heat tape in the well house. everything still worked just fine.
Just a 50-ish chic an a gimp,building thier own house,no plans,just--work,work,work,what a pair :}

MountainDon

With just simple incandescent light bulbs the voltage drop is not much to be concerned about. The lamp(s) will burn a little dimmer if there is much voltage drop. They will last longer too.  :D  However, if there was a motor (fan) or other device that is more voltage sensitive then a long cord run could create an issue.

Hmmm.  I just ran some numbers. If starting with 120 VAC at the source, running 500 feet of 14 ga wire 500 feet to a one amp load, the voltage drop is less than 3%. Perfectly acceptable.

3 amps drops 8%, probably okay for incandescent lamps,
but with 12.5 amps you lose a full third of the voltage. Bad.

If only a string or two of LED lights were running you could actually run just about as much extension cord as you can afford. Don't tell the fire marshall though.  :o
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

firefox

I am throwing this out for one of you smart guys to analyze since I don't have a clue.

What about getting a big role of surplus com wire that they used to use for field phones, or the equivalent. ie wire intended for outdoor use to be laid on the ground.

Assuming you can find a big enough reel that was cheap enough,
you should be able to power some Led lights easily using a simple ac transformer at the supply end and a simple a/c to dc converter at the coop end. Can't imagine it would be more than a chip and a couple of caps at most.

Just an idea.
Bruce

What is the actual distance to the hen house?
Bruce & Robbie
MVPA 23824

firefox

I took a quick look at what is out there and you can get a 1000 foot real of cat5e outdoor cable with a steel messenger cable to boot for $200.
This is about four times what you need and is serious overkill plus
it is new, not surplus. I think if you do some serious looking you could find 1 pair 24awg direct burial for around $100 per 1000 ft.

If there are trees available the above would be a slick way to do it since
it has the steel messenger cable embeded. If you wanted to get fancy
it might be able to use a POE device to power up a device in the hen house, but I am not sure what the distance or power limitations are for these.  A hen house with music comes to mind ::)
Bruce
POE Power Over Ethernet Uses one of the four pair in the cable
and can typicaly power a remote WLAN tranceiver.
Bruce & Robbie
MVPA 23824