Green Wood for Pole Construction

[GuerrillaBuilder]

I have a bunch of 40 year old white pines that dot my building site and need to come down.  I want to use them to build but don't like the idea of waiting for them to dry.

I intend to use a chainsaw mill and square the logs and make them uniform. I'll impale them on concrete piers.
I know wood shrinks in width, girth but not much in length. I figure I'll be safe besides the fear of twisting as the poles cure.
Anyone think I can get by with this? Suggestions are requested. Thanks for weighing in everyone.

[hpinson]

Paint / seal the raw ends of the poles right after you cut them. That will slow the drying process to some extent.

[Don_P]

Flat faces around a boxed heart timber dry convex, an inflated box in end view. But if you power plane a relief channel on the bottom of each log they will bear on outer lips and seal. Rip a groove on the underside about 1/4 depth and it'll encourage the major check to occur there. As you work look at the outer face, create drip edges not water catching ledges.

[alex trent]

I used green (air dried for 3 months) 6x6s and 4x4 post for my cabin.  Longest one is 6 feet tall. Not white pine, but the species has about the same shrinkage characteristics listed as pine for some reference.

No twisting or bending at all.  They shrank just about what the wood tables predicted. Looks like they did about half of that in the first 3 months before I used them and the rest since then. tolerable for this use.

I wonder if having them "under load" reduces the bending or shrinking tendency

[Don_P]

Alex, I doubt you're done yet. The real shrinkage movement is towards the end with large timbers and that can take awhile. White pine is about the most forgiving species shrinkagewise, which is why it is popular for log home construction.

The best way to dry is under load, the uniform load of a well stickered pile, under a roof with plenty of airflow, and out of the sun. Then you get to the compromises. Green timbers out in the sun can check deeply fast as the sun dries and shrinks the surface over a still green and swollen core. A horizontal spanning member, a beam, joist, or rafter is much better installed fully dry, wood is approximately twice as strong at ~12% compared to >30% moisture. If really loaded, green timbers can take a deflection "set" while drying. Nailing boards over a frame does keep them flat but allowance should be made for shrinkage.

In log construction shrinkage of horizontal logs can result in shrinkage of wall height and allowances need to be made. I prefer to work with materials as dry as possible, those initial large movements are over and the wood has shown what it's nature is, is it bowed, where is it checked, etc. I would hide things like ugly checks behind cabinets, cut down bowed logs...

Pinecone's thread shows a nice method that does not shrink heightwise, the infill logs could be square.

[alex trent]

I'll be sure to keep you posted. Been eight months now, since they were trees...maybe 10 or 12.

My drying time here is likely a bit accelerated. Average day temps are 85, windspeed is 15 MPH most of the time (thank goodness) and humidity 60% or so.  These have been out of the sun all the time, except for about a week on the site before we started to build.  Now they get about two hours of sun a day on the outside.  I just oiled some 6x6 and 4x4 posts from this lot that were not used...been in a pile, kind of stickered and in the sun  Looks pretty good so far.  Maybe it is why this wood is so highly valued.

We are now coming into the wet season with a lot of rain and about the same temps but higher humidity.

All that said, I would have had it all KD like I did my siding and the frame. I asked about cost and they rolled their eyes and said "oh my, a lot more". I guess it is all  relative...for my sideing and floor is was $237 for 500 sq feet of floor and 1,000 sq feet of siding. Been better to do that.

[Don_P]

White pine has low shrinkage because it is a low density wood. Some high density species also have low shrinkage, usually because of a high extractives content.

I prefer to use dry wood, I've used a bunch green, a good bit is also how refined the finished product needs to be. The stump on the hill in the background provided several of the timbers in the frame. The pine was still oozing when that picture was taken.

[firefox]

Hi Don_P,
  I am a great admirer of all your posts, but I seem to be a little confused on some things
this time. I got the impression that the op was referring to vertical posts but it seemed to me
that your suggestions about planing a relief on the bottom and making sure there was a drip
surface instead of a ledge was in reference to logs laid parralel to the ground.
I appologise if I got this all confussed.
Bruce

[Don_P]

upon rereading the OP, Ummm, never mind  .
I got sidetracked at the mention of squaring logs...