Tired of crappy welds...

[NM_Shooter]

I have a cheapie Lincoln 100 Pro Pack welder, and am using flux core wire.  I'm guessing that if I go to a gas conversion kit, my welds have a better chance of looking better.   

True or not? 

Should I experiment with argon or CO2 first?

Thanks for any advise... I am hoping to start welding on tubing, and am trying to keep from having to grind half of my work away to make it look good.

[Tickhill]

NM, I have the same welder and the best thing I did for my welding was to get the MIG kit and get away from the flux core wire. You will either have to crank the gas up or weld inside a building to keep the wind from "blowing" the gas away from the arc. I believe my gas mix is 75/25 (CO2/Argon). Tickhill

[CjAl]

the flux core wire splatters like crazy. the gas might.help, then again mabey you just cant weld. 

you want the blend gas. you only need pure argon for aluminum

[rick91351]

Hey Shooter you might take my stand.  Welding is just like most of my hidden abilities; I can weld but I don't show it.  I don't want my 'friends' bringing over their stuff for me to glue back together.   

Just like when others find out you are making Mongo Good fishing poles.  Every one wants one but no one wants to pony up with the $$$.

All that said let me toss this out there - Gas and practice, practice, practice.  No different that another skill.


 

[NM_Shooter]

I am by far the cheapest guy on this board!

I decided that I want a better tent/awning for a shelter for when we take our camper out.  I started looking at the cost of the corner fittings for the conduit and tarp assemblies, and I decided that I could make my own fittings with a tube notching tool.  I also want to be able to weld gussets onto the fittings to make them stronger. 

I have welded up some items before, but I only break out my welder 4 or 5 times a year, and due to differing conditions, metal thickness, angle, and poor skills, end up with bubbly, nasty welds.  I have a friend who has been welding a long time, and his beads don't look a whole lot better.  I'd like to be able to do this without having to grind my welds into aesthetic submission. 

Plus, I get a gas kit and a tubing notcher 

[NM_Shooter]

Oh... and that reminds me.  I have to get the guides on that rod today!

[MountainDon]

Gas makes a huge difference. Huge. But it is not too usable at times outdoors or in a drafty shop doorway. The gas flow can be turned up to compensate but that costs more. I love mine. But it also helps to be able to lay a nice bead in the first place; gas makes for less clean up and faster work.   Big difference around town in pricing. Years ago I found the place on 2nd more expensive than the place along the I25 frontage road (farther away).  Argon/CO2 mix.  I keep a roll of flux core wire for emergency or outdoor windy use.

[glenn kangiser]

I only use flux core due to unknown locations and not wanting to pack a bottle up a ladder.

I can make nice welds with it too, but as Don mentioned, it can require more cleanup.  Going to gas will not make you a better welder but may cause you to have nice looking welds that will run right over the top of the second piece of steel without welding it if done improperly. 

Better I try to give you some tips so you can do better with both.

Too much wire on gas welding can cause a weld to run right over the piece you are welding to and not weld.  Just a nice looking hot weld right over the steel with no connection.  Bobcat had this problem when welding their sprockets to their axles so you are not alone.  I broke at least 2 of them.

Clean helmet glass - reading glasses if you need them under the helmet so you can see the puddle and if flux welding differentiate the puddle from the flux.  The puddle will be bright and shiny - the flux a thin line separates it from the puddle but slightly more frothy.

Flux core or Gas - you will find a Miller welder will do better on long cords and in most situations.  With the Lincoln, keep the cord either heavy or short. 

Wire speed and amps.  Turn the amps to the higher end of the range to start and reduce according to need. 

Adjust the wire speed up until it starts pushing back at you as you weld on a test piece the reduce it until the wire just contacts the puddle about a 16 to 32 of an inch above the puddle. The sound should be that of crisp smoothly frying bacon.   Too little wire causes unnecessary spatter from to much arc velocity throwing the globules all over trhe place and even out of the puddle.  (Amps are too high for the wire fed into the weld).  Too much wire causes the stubbing I mentioned above pushing back against you as it hits the solid metal in the bottom of the weld.

Keep the tip clean.  It is easy to get spatter in it causing dragging on the wire.  The wire will wear through or bunch up and break.  With the proper size clean tip the wire should move freely through the tip with little or no drag.  A dirty tip will cause drag or possibly non-contact.

Keep around 1/2 inch of wire sticking out past the tip.  I use .035 NR211MP.  There are some others that may weld a bit better for a homeowner but they are not rated to meet code.  211 meets it up to 1/2 material but NR 232 for earthquake purposes.  232 is not available in small sizes and is harder to weld with than 211 starting out.

Watch the puddle - not the molten  flux (slag).  Make the weld puddle itself contact both pieces as you weave between both.  Generally have the rod angle centered between the pieces or up a bit to counteract gravity.  Heavier pieces will require a hotter weld or less wire input to heat them up.  Often you will need to adjust the wire speed a little as you change to heavier or lighter materials.  Thin - cut the amps and adjust the wire speed down accordingly until it will handle the job smoothly without burning through or blowing the side out of tube steel or pipe.  You will find tube steel or pipe to require less heat than solid stock.

That should get you started - I will try to check back to see how you are doing.

When set properly flux core should almost clean up with a wire brush or scraper without a lot of chipping or a bad mess.

[UK4X4]

I started with a  Hobart 140 then graduated to a Miller 210

Built a bunch of stuff with both of them and recently went from flux core to gas

Flux core was fine with the Hobart, but the Miller hated it with a vengence- I used to put two sheets of aluminum either side of the weld - but still took some chisling to get rid of the little balls.

Just had a friend lend me a bottle of gas- oh hell why did'nt I do this earlier !- way way cleaner and has a better finish too

This rack was made with galanized electrical conduit, much easier to clean as the balls did not stick to the galvanisation so well, a swift brush and all good


This week's project has been a bumper for my Prado so I can fit my winch
those welds had no cleaning on the light tabs



If I'd have used flux core the tabs would have been covered in the little balls

[glenn kangiser]

Nice job UK.  Gas shielded welds are very nice as long as you are not in a breezy area.  Can't get much better than that.  You are correct that some spatter is unavoidable with flux core.

As I mentioned the Miller is a much more stable machine than the Lincoln or the Hobart too.  You may have noticed that it is much heavier than the others in the small model.  As I recall the 210 is a floor model.  I used to have a 200 I think it was.

They are great welders.   A few points that seem to be indicated here and could help in reducing spatter.

I would think that maybe the Miller needed to be turned down or more wire as dingle balls flying and hard chipping with flux core indicates too much heat.  Either turned too high or not enough wire speed can create that condition.  It will be indicated by the wire being too far away from the puddle also.  The wire should just almost contact the puddle.  Too far from the puddle speeds up the velocity and the wire becomes molten far away from the work, molten metal flying out and sticking all over the place.

The excess heat created causes the slag to stick very hard and be very hard to get off.  Under proper conditions a light scraping with a screwdriver should remove the slag.   (Flux before welding - slag after).  The balls are molten globules that fly out and are hot enough to weld where they hit - that is what indicates the excess heat.  Adding more wire speed will also drop the heat but you will need to be able to control the amount of weld metal you have by speeding up the welding or cutting down the amps and leaving the wire speed the same.

Galvanize metal can also cause spatter as the zinc boils under the molten steel but still, these wire feeders are the best way to weld it.  It helps greatly to grind the galvanize off especially hot dipped galvanize.  Also - there are respirators - just cloth face masks that will help keep the galvanization from making you sick with metal fume fever.  Chills and boiling hot at the same time to the point of teeth chattering almost uncontrollably.  Milk - milkshakes and Ice cream are the cures for that.  Drink it ahead of welding also.

Thanks for posting that, UK.

[NM_Shooter]

Thanks for the tips.. I am going to try to pay better attention to my wire feed speed. 

I have a follow on question.  Most of what I weld is tubing of some sort.  a little bar stock and angle iron, but mostly tubing.  One thing I have always wondered, is how much (if any) of a gap to leave between the two pieces that I am welding together. 

I have noticed that if I leave much of a gap on thin wall stuff, I tend to burn holes through it faster.

What is the trick for this?

[glenn kangiser]

Wire speed setting practice....  Grab a scrap piece of steel similar to what you will be welding.  Drop your helmet with the wire speed control in your hand.  Have the amps higher for thick - lower for thin - you will get used to it soon.  Now start a weld and turn the wire up as you move along until it starts stubbing - pushing you back...  Slow it down just until the stubbing stops or possibly a bit more - like 1/16  to 1/8 inch on the knob.  The wire should be just above the puddle as it feeds toward the workpiece nearly contacting the puddle as it melts off.

Thin wall stuff could be almost butted together or just butt them after beveling the edges with a grinder.  Depending on the strength you need you could bevel only 2/3 of the way through and get near complete penetration as it continues to melt through.  If you will be grinding the outside smooth then you will want to bevel to get a good partial penetration weld. Grinding a surface weld could cause it to break.  Depends on the use the item will have as to what way you want to do it.


A bit of experimentation on scrap will help show you.  A code weld - will always use the backer fit tight to the inside with a 1/8 to 3/16 gap and all three pieces tied together on the root pass - a bit on the hot side.  The backer could be something like 1/2 inch thick plate for a 1/8 to 3/16 gap.  Heavier tube with big wire at about 250 amps or so we use a 3/16 to 1/4 gap over the backer plate.  All 3 pieces must be fused completely or the ultrasound will likely find it - or at least any serious flaws.  We use NR232 .072 wire for most of the big welds - it is flux cored and we never use gas or dual shield (gas and flux) in the field except in rare cases - though I can't think of one.

We can run it over a wide range of amps but it is way more critical of slight inaccuracies in heat or wire speed combinations.  It is required for seismic weld specs here in California.  Once you get used to it, it is a very great wire.  211MP is best for home stuff or light industrial under 1/2".


For complete penetration with wire - you could go up to about 1/8 to 3/16" to 1/4 tube if you get a bit skilled at it, but probably the easiest way is to make backer plates  that fit inside the tube and grind one or both sides to about a 45 degree taper (total - say both at 22.5 or one at 45 degrees) then make multiple pass welds - say about 2 or 3 on 1/4 inch thick tube.  Tack 4 corners or so first before serious welding to help prevent pulling.  It will likely pull a bit toward one side or the other.  Back welding can help prevent that if it is a problem.  The taper is only in the tubes being welded.  The backer is straight and fits into both halves snugly as possible.

Back welding  is progressing forward in steps but welding backward in a series of shorter welds.  Example start 2 inches away from you and weld back toward you.  Step 4 inches forward and weld back toward you again filling the missing 2 inches.  Step forward again 4 inches after completing the 2 inch weld and weld 2 inches back again.  This makes the weld pull against itself welding backward but moving forward.  Hope that makes sense.l;

[Windpower]

Glenn

is there a Miller model you would recommend for a rank amatuer like myself for all around 'welding stuff on the farm'

I have used a MIG before and the welds looked great compared to my butt ugly Lincoln stick welds

Also looking for a plasma cutter for material up to about 3/8 to 1/2 -- though most of the cuts will be in much smaller stock

[UK4X4]

I'm self taught and obviously not as experienced as Glenn

Burning through means too much heat- ampage

For a beginner Don't try and weld a tube joint in one hit I did about 90deg on that thin wall roof rack

Tacked the tubes in place - did the same weld on each tube - then re-oriented the piece to the next weld.

equipment wise I went from the Hobart 140 which was a great starter unit  and bought a Millermatic 212, correction from above

This welder is better than me !

It has an auto setting as well as manual control, the auto is set the wire type and thickness and off you go, maybe because I'm slow but I find the setting one thickness less than I'm using is better for my style, still seems to penetrate well enough I guess speed will come with time.

Equipment wise don't get too hung up on the biggest one you can find- the Hobart was fine for most things I wanted to build, the bigger one is probably beyond what I'll need

As an example I built this with the little Hobart - the front tubes and plates all being 1/4" thick on the frame- admittedly multiple passes, but works fine off road 1



I built this while my wife was pregnant in order to have a good excuse to hide in the garage ! I got carried away with technology and added independant air bag suspension ...for those techies amongst you !

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/12092-Trailer-build-thread-consolidated/page7?highlight=consolidated

[glenn kangiser]

Glenn

is there a Miller model you would recommend for a rank amatuer like myself for all around 'welding stuff on the farm'

I have used a MIG before and the welds looked great compared to my butt ugly Lincoln stick welds

Also looking for a plasma cutter for material up to about 3/8 to 1/2 -- though most of the cuts will be in much smaller stock

The reason I like the small Miller 140 is because often I get into places where there is only 120v power and I need a decent little welder to do it.  With multiple passes it will do most common jobs very well.  If it is a shop welder you could move up to something like UK has - maybe a 212 now.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php  Their single phase stuff.  140 is the smallest but still quite good.

There are lots of different plasmas.  I would check in a local welding shop and see what they like and support - you will need consumables every so often.  Zap Plasmatherm was a cheap place for supplies. Looks like they only sell under Thermacut now.  http://thermacut.us/default.aspx


I haven't used my plasmas for quite a  while though I think I have enough solar to do some decent cutting or I could use my 10000 watt Lincoln Welder Generator.  Miller also makes decent plasmas but there are decent cheaper alternatives too. I still have a big Miller and a Thermal Dynamics I think it is.

[glenn kangiser]

Just remembered - my supplier told me this a couple years ago.... Verified my memory on an Amazon review.

This review is from: Hobart 500550 Auto Arc 130 Wire Feed MIG Welding Kit (Tools ... The welder itself is made by Miller/Hobart, and is made in the U.S.A.

Hobart is now a part of Miller I guess.

Duty cycle is percent of 10 minutes welding but I often do much more - it shuts down to cool when too hot.

[glenn kangiser]

Nice job and good info, UK. 

I had a shop model - a 200 I think it was.  I think my son may have it now as I just use the portables.

The gas shielded welds are really nice when you can use them.

[zion-diy]

Snap On YA240 is my weapon of choice.

[glenn kangiser]

Nice work. 

[Tickhill]

I was taught that if the MIG welder sounded like a small, non-politically correct, 2 stroke outboard motor under moderate throttle application, then the wire speed is pretty close to perfect...

[glenn kangiser]

...as long as it does not run out of gas....

[Native_NM]

I've got a nice Miller 220 and still can't weld worth a darn.  Even with gas.

In case you are welding EMT or other galvanized tube, make sure you don't breathe the fumes.  They will get you good.  Grind the coating or soak the ends in muriatic acid. 

[glenn kangiser]

Seems there must be a reason.  It should do a good job.

Galvanized (Zinc) fumes give you metal fume fever.  Drink Milk or milk products.  There are some relatively cheap cloth face masks that are pretty good for galvanize welding.  That and a breeze or a fan to suck the fumes away.