ebass -Attaching a garage to one of John's plans

[glenn-k]

Moved question here for ebass.  Glenn
      
      Attaching a Garage to One of John's Plans

Hello, everyone:
 
      Has anyone ever thought of, or actually built an attached garage or storage space ( 16' x 18' or 18' x 20' for example) to one of the houses built from John's plans?.......
      John, do have any info that you could pass along on this idea?........I've been giving a lot of serious thought to purchasing and building a home from one of your plans........I can't seem to settle on one in particular ....... a single story, or one with a loft or a second story....
      A  space big enough to hold a pair of 5'x8' trailers used to store and transport a couple of sound systems for rental purposes would be absolutely necessary for any house I'd consider building........I'm in New England, so a heated (45 to 55 degrees constant) space in winter is a necessity for this equipment..........
      My thought is that an attached space would be easier to deal with regarding building costs and heat.... than a separate structure with a separate heating system.......anyone?
 
      Thank you.... ebass  
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2005, 1:27pm by ebass »

[glenn-k]

I don't see why you couldn't use something like the Enchilada plans then make one addition into a garage if necessary, modifying size as needed.

I think you would have to add a firewall due to attached garage.  

I don't do much residential work so maybe someone else can offer some more information or correct me if wrong.

[jraabe]

The key to an easy to build addition is to keep it as self supporting and independent as possible. This means getting the roof and walls to work so you are not throwing new water and new weight onto old walls.

If you use one of my plans, get one with all the foundation options (you can use those details in your own layout) and perhaps something like the grandfather cottage that has truss diagrams you can modify for the spans you might find work best with your design. Trusses will make the design easier to work up - especially if you don't need a loft or second level.

[ebass]

   Glenn: Thanks for transferring my question to this new location........

   John: By the terms "self supporting" and "independent" do you mean that the best way to build such a storage structure, is to build it as if it is a "free standing , independent" structure?.... ie. with four load bearing walls, but attached to another building?......... Do I have it right?....... What about construction of a fire wall, as Glenn suggested........ one might be necessary?........Would local codes determine that?

   Cost will be the greatest factor in determining what I'll be able to build......
    I've thought of building a pair of buildings, like Victoria's Cottage,  possibly with a basement like Dennis Kuhn's and a Builder's Cottage with a garage door, similar to Mike Nykos' 12'x18' storage building........based on your experience,
would this be more expensive that trying to build a Grandfather's Cottage with an attached garage?.......My plan would be to do as much of the construction as I can, by myself............

  

[jraabe]

Not necessarily four independent walls, but let's imagine you added a gable roofed addition to a house where the end wall of the new part is shared with the existing house. That wall is not carrying any new load to the existing building. The roof and floor loads are carried by the side walls of the addition. Also the two roofs could probably be easily melded together with a cricket in such a layout.

This keeps things simple and you don't have to start restructuring the existing building.

[glenn-k]

I don't work with residential much but a firewall is usually just heavier sheetrock -(firecode?) taped and maybe solid core door with closer hinge between the garage and dwelling for the common wall.  Not a real big deal - just has to be done right.  I am not sure of specifics and what I posted here may not be quite right but should give you some idea of what to expect.

[ebass]

Glenn:
   If the storage space was made strictly for my equipment and not for storage any type of potentially explosive materials such as gasoline or for cars or trucks, would that eliminate the need for a fire wall?..........I would  like to have a garage or carport....... away from the main structure for safety........

Thanks,

ebass

[ebass]

 John:
   I guess we're at the point where you begin to educate me on some things I don't know ...........
What's a cricket?

Thanks,

Ebass

[glenn-k]

In that case I would just make an extra room and use it for storage.  Then right - it shouldn't need a firewall as it would be similar use to the rest of the house.  The Enchilada plans show two additions.  One could be storage.  

If you have two gable roofs at 90 degrees apart there would be a gap where the two connect - the cricket would be a little peaked roof between the two to keep water and leaves from building up behind the wall.  I don't know if you extend the ridge of the addition if it's still called a cricket or not but I bet John does.

Picture of Lowe's chimney cricket - larger similar.

[ebass]

Glenn:
    Judging from John's last email.......it's still called a cricket, even when you extend the ridge of the addition.......thanks for the info.......

John and/or Glenn:
    Connecting the roof of an addition, to the roof of another structure under construction at a right angle with a cricket, and properly covering it with roofing materials to prevent water from leaking in, seems like a daunting task to a me, as a first time builder..........building "in line" seems as if it would be an easier, simpler approach....... do you have any "tricks of the trade" or wisdom that you are willing to share with someone in my position that would increase the chances of a favorable outcome when attempting the "right angle and cricket" roof approach?


thank you

ebass

[glenn-k]

There is a way to weave asphalt shingles around the turn but most that I know of use a metal flashing then go each way from the valley.  Since the Enchilada plans have this as an option I assume John put details in it.  I don't have the actual plans to refer to.

http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/43.html

[ebass]

Glenn:
   I was thinking more about a metal roof (possibly tin?) or more likely something new that has gotten my attention, it's name is "ondura"........how would these types of products that come in sheets or strips and aren't shingle sized be handled to properly cover a roof constructed at right angles?


Thank you

ebass

[jonseyhay]

Look here or you can use a valley gutter check out the skylight on my website to see that.
jonesy.
http://www.ondura.com/flashing2.htm

or here for valley gutters
http://www.bluescopesteel.com.au/au/index.cfm/objectID.B3A167C8-6764-11D4-989800508BA5461F

[jraabe]

Glenn and jonseyhay have provided you with good information. Exactly how the roofing and flashing works is a matter for the roofing material supplier to help you with (if you do this part yourself). Generally valley flashing is a long term solution that works well.

In terms of structure the cricket type roof is just built with short rafters right on top of the main roof - extending the ridge board, of course.

[ebass]

jonseyhay:

    That's quite a site you have there!........I was only able to give it a quick first peek, but it is most impressive...........will have to visit again soon, when time permits.........thanks for your reply.

ebass

[glenn-k]

Sheet metal at angles would just require finding the proper angle then cutting it carefully as it would be exposed.  You can get various types of trim but it would still have to drain onto the valley flashing which would take the runoff down to the bottom of the valley to run off or into the gutter.  Your sheet metal roof supplier should be able to help tell you what you need with trim, flashings -fasteners etc.

There are different ways to cut sheet metal for the DIYer.  Abrasive cutoff blade in a skill saw or skill saw with blade turned backward - (loud - wear ear plugs and eye protection).  Nibbler would work fair but most shears won't go over high ribs very well.  Use caution - edges are very sharp.  Another great way but not common is a plasma torch.  I have a couple but they are not common builder items.

I have heard of ondura- haven't used it - maybe someone else here has.

[jraabe]

Here's a link to a discussion of Ondura from the old forum

http://countryplans.master.com/texis/master/search/?q=ondura&s=SS

It might work fine in dry climates, but it has had problems.

Several people here know the work of Ross Chapin. When he and I shared an office, he built some houses with this interesting product. The roof turned organic pretty quickly.

[Amanda_931]

We used it on the treehouse.  I sure wasn't going to climb up that hill carrying metal roofing, wanted to minimize toting sheathing as well.  And because the front of the treehouse is connected to trees that sway in the wind, the back to a pair of posts, something as lightweight as possible that could be set to float (on cut-up tractor tire sections) was a good idea.

It's been pretty good for two years.  Although in the first summer the treehouse smelled rather as though it was roofed in asphalt impregnated paper (hmmm, strange!).  But all we did was put it onto purlins.

If I was going to use it on a "real" building I'd want it to be a steeper pitch.  I have to take a ladder up there and brush the leaves off at least once a year.

I'd assume that the growth of moss has something to do with the amount of texture on it.  Wouldn't want to use it  for rainwater collection.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UQAPHNAXrdUaA9mXE4TSkAJPRz3vbUh2Z2pSuH!

[ebass]

Glenn, John and Amanda 931:

  Thank you all... for the info you have passed along........I'd probably never have known about the problems that can occur when using this material, otherwise.........it looks like something with more of a stable history is in order for roofing material.......
John....your site is proving to be highly valuable for all kinds of pertinent building information.......in this instance,  for avoiding potential problems.....

Again, thank you all

ebass
    

[jonseyhay]

ebass
There is a great book on roofing called "Framing Roofs " I highly recommend it; makes roof framing easy to understand. Another book worth getting is Working Alone: Tips & Techniques for Solo Building
by John Carroll, well worth getting hold of. If you buy from Amazon through John's link I think he gets the odd dollar that helps support this forum.
http://www.countryplans.com/books.html

Just a little observation.
I have gathered from some recent posts, that corrugated iron doesn't seem to be in common use in the US. I was wondering why this is so. Here in Australia it is used widely for roofing and as an external cladding, in fact it has a great history in residential and commercial buildings.

I noticed in one post that the sound of rain on an iron roof was a reason for not using it. This fascinated me somewhat, as this is one of the features that I like about corrugated iron. If you where to ask most folk down this end, I'm sure they would agree with me.

Of course, purlin spacing is critical in getting the right sound i.e. (not too loud or too soft) and indeed specialist roof tuners are in high demand in this neck of the woods. This is one of the trades that are dying out here, with all the new roofing products on the market. Consequently, good roofers can name their own price and iron is starting to get beyond the reach of the average homeowner.

Here in Hay we have one of the most technically advanced corrugated iron structures in Australia. This masterpiece was a collaboration between architect's, construction crews, roofing specialist and the Meteorological Services. The building has been designed to play Wagner's 'Ride of the Valkyries' during the rainstorms that pass through this area in the summer. Probably the most difficult problem was the placement of the lightning towers. These needed to be sited correctly to get the crashes in just the right place in the score.  Of course the weather needs to be from the right direction or all you get is rock and roll. Fine if you like that, but me, I'm an opera fan.

http://www.visithay.com.au/shearoutback.html

You will all no doubt be familiar with the Sydney Opera house and all the trouble during the building of that. The original building was to be a corrugated iron structure, designed to play Beethoven's 5th symphony  (see mockup below). A crying shame when you consider what we ended up with.
jonesy.

[glenn-k]

Jonesy,

I didn't know you folks down under had taken the art of tin toilet wall tuning to such a precariously  high level.  Possibly you can help me.  My outback outhouse at first had no walls.  Just a plywood structure with two holes in it.  You could sit there and contemplate your future while enjoying the view of the valley below while listening to the steady drone of the meat bees.  This was great when it was just the wife and I.  One day just as the moon came out, and my wife saw it shining, the old fellow that delivers my building plans drove up unannounced.  Needless to say there was a mad scramble to get things under cover and we decided it was time to put walls on the privy.  (I don't believe on this forum we are allowed to call it the John - will have to check the censored word list).

My question for you is this -- Is there a special stud spacing that will make the music emanating from the  new corrugated iron walls sound pleasing to the ears?  Obviously I have framed something wrong as the bass sounds from the tuba seem excessive.  Thanks in advance for your expertise.

[jonseyhay]

No problem Glenn,
Of coarse no walls is great for good airflow, but not so good when it comes to acoustics. I am sure that "Special stud spacing" is the key. The proper spacing would probably be a matter of trial and error, dependant on the particular tone required. Tuning forks would be great for this or possibly the odd rock thrown from a good distance. The distance required, of course, would be dependent on the foot speed of the occupant at the time.
I am really not that au fait with modern dunny acoustics but I'm sure there is some excellent information on the net somewhere.
Don't know what to do about the tuba. I think we may need some expert help on this one.
jonesy.  

[glenn-k]

Jonesy,

I think you can rest a little easier now.  I know you have been worrying yourself to death about the raucous racket emerging from the untuned tin top of the little brown shack out back of my place during a cloudburst.

I think we have figured out a workaround (not similar to a walkabout) :-/

Fortunately it is in very close proximity to the poultry shed so whenever the tuba sounds in an off key, we simply shout out "Who stepped on the duck"  and no one is the wiser.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Glenn

[jonseyhay]

That's a relief Glenn,
The best I could come up with after searching high and low, was an old article in the Hay University Science Journal pertaining to beans. It seems that the consumption of copious amounts of baked beans is directly related to the volume and frequency of the notes emanating from the tuba. Of course, this can have devastating effects in a confined space.
The solutions offered where, ease up on the beans or knock out the walls to promote good airflow. This, as you know would also  reduce echo and reverberation.
Both seemed a bit radical to me although I would probably have gone with the view. But then, I'm a "demon for the bean".
  jonesy

[JRR]

Jonsey
Does that roof tuner guy ever come up topside to do work?  My corrugated roof could use some adjusting ... the only tune I hear is "rap".

I may have installed the stuff upside-down.