An urgent message

[MountainDon]

camo

[considerations]

"camo"  

The county sheriff came to one of our Blockwatch meetings. He told us that about their priorities in this county if we have a local or regional disaster, specifically like a big earthquake. We are in a remote and sparsely populated area.  The 3 roads that we get in and out on are connected to population centers with bridges.  If they are out, or the roads impassable, we should not expect to see any "help" for 3 to 4 weeks.  The focus for helping will be on population centers. 

That is enough incentive for me to stock up on the basics.  I appreciated his honesty.  That's not to say we couldn't get out on boats, but if it is a regional disaster, who would want to get out anyway?  A decent supply of food and fuel could come in handy even if I "just" become unemployed.  It's a practical plan. 

Anyway, I'm going to bed, got to get the potatoes and onions in the ground tomorrow! 

[Windpower]

We usually do not put anything into the ground before Memorial day (in Wisconsin)

one year there was a freeze in June ! th  the corn crops but didn't kill most things

I can't imagine how nice it must be to have such a long growing season

have you tried sweet potatoes ? they're tough to grow here because they take so long to mature

[peternap]

Now you know why I don't discuss religion!

[John_C]

Don, if your going to hell for refusing to live in fear, I'll be there with you.  and I'll brew the beer for the both of us. 

Got room for a third at that party?

[Jens]

I personally think that it is a bit off for anybody to predict the scales to tip either way, I can only describe certain things from my experiences/perspective.  I make no claims that everything is going to go crazy, but I don't see things returning to the way they were a year ago, 5 years ago, or 10 years ago.  Things are going to change.  If a prediction is made that says calamity, or that all is well, both have to be a bit loony.  Please don't think I am trying to foster fear, never my goal.  I do however, see that we need to make changes in a large way, and sometimes calamity is the only way for it, so, maybe it is on the way?  Self -destructive behavior can continue for only so long.

The whole guns and ammo thing, also just scares me, and makes me sad.  Not just the stockpiling that people are doing, but the profiting, the fear mongering that starts it, and the stupidity of the forces that make people feel this is the thing they have to do.  Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.

[glenn kangiser]

"camo"  

The county sheriff came to one of our Blockwatch meetings. He told us that about their priorities in this county if we have a local or regional disaster, specifically like a big earthquake. We are in a remote and sparsely populated area.  The 3 roads that we get in and out on are connected to population centers with bridges.  If they are out, or the roads impassable, we should not expect to see any "help" for 3 to 4 weeks.  The focus for helping will be on population centers. 

That is enough incentive for me to stock up on the basics.  I appreciated his honesty.  That's not to say we couldn't get out on boats, but if it is a regional disaster, who would want to get out anyway?  A decent supply of food and fuel could come in handy even if I "just" become unemployed.  It's a practical plan. 

Anyway, I'm going to bed, got to get the potatoes and onions in the ground tomorrow! 

If the bridges are out, you will be safer anyway.  The cities will be giant wastelands .  The cars will have been modified to run on wood and have chimneys rising from the back bumper spewing smoke.  People in leather with tumors in various places will be wandering around looking for food and beer.  You don't want them there. 

Believe me --- you are safer if the bridges are out. 

[MountainDon]

Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.

How would you have responded to the situation in 1938-1940 if you had been in charge of things in England?

OR, if you'd like a second choice; how would you have responded if you were in charge of things in the USA on December 7, 1941?

[considerations]

"We usually do not put anything into the ground before Memorial day (in Wisconsin)"

In this part of Washington it is silly to plant anything green before the end of May, with the exception of kale and a few other really hardy vegetables.  The onions and garlic seem to have antifreeze in their veins, even at that they go under straw mulch to protect them from the inevatible frosts between now and the middle of May.

The biggest problem with things like beans is that they will drown if you plant them too soon. The spring rains are notable.  Tomatoes do a lot better if a sheet of clear plastic is suspended over them, like an umbrella.

We plant short season tomatoes, cantelope might be possible in a greenhouse, I don't know if sweet potatoes would like it here, maybe in eastern washington.

We don't get near as  cold as Wisconsin, I'd think a heated greenhouse would be a real boon there.

Its always a bit of an adventure.  I have enjoyed fresh spinach, choho, and kale all winter in a "cold frame"...heated with a work light and covered with an old horse blanket every night, and sometimes during the really cold days.

[peternap]

Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.

How would you have responded to the situation in 1938-1940 if you had been in charge of things in England?

OR, if you'd like a second choice; how would you have responded if you were in charge of things in the USA on December 7, 1941?

I'd have wandered around looking for food and beer,

[Windpower]

"How would you have responded to the situation in 1938-1940 if you had been in charge of things in England?"

Well if 'England' had been a little more on top of things they might have objected to the banks (American and British)that supported Hilter's rise to power  . Or maybe they should have paid attention to the rape of Germany's economy caused by the WWI 'reparations' and curbed the banks power then. Once the demon has been created it is too late to avoid war. 

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/llt/51/pauwels.html


  "OR, if you'd like a second choice; how would you have responded if you were in charge of things in the USA on December 7, 1941?"

If I were in charge of things in November of 1941 I would have told Admiral Kimmel that we had broken Japan's code and that an attack on Pearl Harbor was on its way.

[Windpower]

"We usually do not put anything into the ground before Memorial day (in Wisconsin)"

In this part of Washington it is silly to plant anything green before the end of May, with the exception of kale and a few other really hardy vegetables.  The onions and garlic seem to have antifreeze in their veins, even at that they go under straw mulch to protect them from the inevatible frosts between now and the middle of May.

The biggest problem with things like beans is that they will drown if you plant them too soon. The spring rains are notable.  Tomatoes do a lot better if a sheet of clear plastic is suspended over them, like an umbrella.

We plant short season tomatoes, cantelope might be possible in a greenhouse, I don't know if sweet potatoes would like it here, maybe in eastern washington.

We don't get near as  cold as Wisconsin, I'd think a heated greenhouse would be a real boon there.

Its always a bit of an adventure.  I have enjoyed fresh spinach, choho, and kale all winter in a "cold frame"...heated with a work light and covered with an old horse blanket every night, and sometimes during the really cold days.

When is your last frost -- I have planted trees on Memorial day in WI when it was snowing but it is usually pretty nice by then

The problem with sweet potatoes is that you have to plant seedlings around here because they take so long to mature
-- they sure are good though

my big challenge is deer --- they eat darn near everything if you let them

[MountainDon]

Windpower, responding to a  "what would you have done" question does not permit the rewriting of previous history. It presumes you are dropped into the situation and have to deal with it.

Very much like today's question, "how do we get out of the financial situation we are in today?" The answer is not, "well we wouldn't be here if... (enter your own revision)" I agree that IF several things had not occurred or been allowed or encouraged to happen the situations in 1938-1941 could have been different, just as the situation today could have turned out differently. Problems are never solved with wishful thinking; we got we we got and we have to make do with that.

[peternap]

Don's right. Hindsight is always 20/20. Assuming I was not a national leader, I would have handled those two disasters the same way I am handling the current financial crisis. Taking each day at a time, keeping an eye on events, preparing for the next week with plans that are not static and can be changed at any time...and of course, caring for the family. That brings me to Jens statment.

Jems is a good man. If everyone were like him the world would be a sfe place for all. Unfortunately, there are very few people like him and violence is the ultimate argument. It is not my forst choice ut when others won't listen to reason, they listen to violence. It has worked since before men walked this earth and will be working when we disappear from it.

While turning the other cheek sounds good, it just gets you a fat lip on both sides.

[Windpower]

Windpower, responding to a  "what would you have done" question does not permit the rewriting of previous history. It presumes you are dropped into the situation and have to deal with it.

Very much like today's question, "how do we get out of the financial situation we are in today?" The answer is not, "well we wouldn't be here if... (enter your own revision)" I agree that IF several things had not occurred or been allowed or encouraged to happen the situations in 1938-1941 could have been different, just as the situation today could have turned out differently. Problems are never solved with wishful thinking; we got we we got and we have to make do with that.

I thiink Jens' response was on the order of "violence is always a last resort"

My point is that we normal folks out here have been repeatedly manipulated not only in recent history but probably throughout mankind's post hunter gatherer existence.

We have 'allowed' our thoughts to be manipulated into killing other people for reasons that have nothing to do with taking care of our families and building a better world for our offspring.

I believe the current situation is no different

I posted a video about Obama on a different topic here just now

It is definitely worth a watch

or we could just sit back and wait for WWIII

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2487281703373472350

[MountainDon]

Jens statement was...

Violence has never been a good answer, for anything, in all of history.

IF everyone, down to the last man, woman and child, lived by the ideals represented by the 10 commandments we would have a totally different world. The thing is we don't have that ideal world. So when confronted by a set of circumstances that have somehow evolved to a sorry state, decisions have to be made. Sometimes one must choose between the lesser of two evils and work things out from there.

I'll watch the video later.

[Windpower]

I still think he is right on target viloence has never been a good answer


It may be the only answer


but rarely I think

perhaps a fine point of semantics....

[MountainDon]

I don't see that as a difference of semantics. It is a real difference.

It is not usually violence that starts wars, it is failed diplomacy.  Violence is usually an indication of failed diplomacy.  But you know what?  It is definitely the fear of greater violence that ends wars.  Why else sign the treaty?

The threat of violence can accomplish more than anything else, IMO.

All through history there have been thugs. Some operate on a local street level, others elevate themselves to a regional, national or world level. Sometimes all it takes is a bigger stick to deter the local thug, sometimes it takes a great deal more. The thing is appeasement seldom works, but fear does.

While turning the other cheek sounds good, it just gets you a fat lip on both sides.

I agree; from personal experience.

[considerations]

"Well if 'England' had been a little more on top of things they might have objected to the banks (American and British)that supported Hilter's rise to power"

A really good book about this is "The Last Lion".  It's a 3 volume biography of Winston Churchill.  He knew, and said so, and it basically cost him his political career, that is until Germany started "expanding".  There are only 2 volumes currently available because the author died.  He passed his notes on to another author and friend, so many of us are hoping that last volume will get published.  I digress....the work is a fascinating and detailed window on what happened in the pre WWII years in England.   

[Jens]

"Fat lip on both sides"  Have you ever started a fight with an act of vengeance?  I have.  I felt just as worthless and hurt as I did before.  Felt good for a minute (minute is not always literal, I live in the ghetto, in the south), but always left me feeling empty.  I prefer to not feel empty.  If it is a matter of life or death, I will fight back the best I can, but where do people draw the line?  If somebody breaks into your house, to steal some food, or your TV to sell and buy food for their family, do you just grab that loaded .38 and blow their head off for it?  Shoot em in the knee (for you smarties out there saying "no, the knee")?  "But that is my stuff, I worked for it, I paid for it" some will respond.  Nothing belongs to any of us.  Yes, it would have to be an ideal world for everyone to be able to live in safety like this, but the world is here, now.  You can't change people, but you can change the way you think and react to the situations presented you.  I may kill to save those I love from wicked people, but sometimes living your ideal, and dying in conviction of that ideal, saves many more.  Sometimes you can effect many more people's outcomes with something as simple as "getting two fat lips".  Many people are only violent toward you until you show them that you will not let them touch you.

Having weapons close at hand, IMO, doesn't give you the chance to truly be brave.  There is nothing in this world, that I have because of me, therefore there is nothing in this world that I can truly save.  Preservation of life is the only thing, and pretty darned easy to do without violence.  In fact, I would argue that the only way is without violence, and especially, vengeance. 



Glenn, would the chimney have to be double walled, insulated stainless?  Just curious

[muldoon]

Jens, you make fine points.  And I do see where your coming from, I dont necessarily agree with you but thats ok.  Our outlooks on life are made up soley on our experiences in life, the things that have happened to us and how we reacted to them. 

I have not been in many fights, although I did grow up in very poor neighborhoods.  Probably about 6-7 total my whole life.  I have won and lost, I have been attacked without reason, and attacked others for "vengeance" as you described it.   None of those victories or losses felt good.  I have also walked away from fights, some because I was able to talk my way around it, and some not.   The only time I felt good about any of those situation was where talking was a viable option.  But it is not always a viable option. 

I remember one time in highschool a friend of mine was fighting was a kid much larger than him.  I did not help him partly because of fear (that I am not particularly proud to say) and part because I had nothing to do with it.  He was hurt pretty bad.  While I may have taken your "high ground" and avoided the confrontation I was left with the same hollow sadness you described above.  That was when I was in high school and I still remember it today. 

You ask the question what if someone breaks in your house, and to that I would ask, how do you know their intentions?  They dont wear a sign that says - just stealing food.  I dont have any idea what they will or will not attempt to do.  Once they are inside the house through forced entry I feel I have no option but to assume the absolute worst case.  I would not be able to live with myself if someone were to hurt my children because of my failure to act.   Stealing my truck in the driveway, ok thats what insurance is for, breaking into my house - thats another story.  I dont care about the tv.   However, I wont be asking someone if they just want the tv. 

for what its worth, being brave has nothing to do with having a weapon or not.  It is acting when it is necessary.  Being brave does not require violence, and acting with violence does mean you are brave.  Bravery involves putting fears aside and doing what must be done.  Firemen are brave, the ax they carry isnt for violence. 

Just my opinions. 

[peternap]

Just a few headlines from my site Jens. These aren't nice people who do things like this. If you run into one, You need to be able to defend yourself. The next victim may be your wife or children.
It's not a game or an act of vengeance, It's survival. Think you can shoot someone in the knee while he's shooting at you....try it.


STAUNTON — Bond was denied Thursday in Augusta County General District Court to a man suspected of trying to hire a hit man to kill two people, including his ex-wife, a deputy clerk with the Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court.

Police release identity of third female robbery suspect

Front Royal 7-Eleven robbed at gunpoint

Man shot outside Reidsville store

The parents of a Fairfax County girl found dead in Baltimore in November continued to press for leads in the case yesterday, releasing a sketch of a woman who might have been with their daughter shortly before her death and accusing Fairfax school officials of not cooperating with the investigation.

FRONT ROYAL, Va. (AP) -- A soldier dressed and wearing face-paint like Batman villain The Joker was shot and killed by police in the Shenandoah National Park after he pointed a loaded shotgun at them after a chase, an FBI affidavit says

[MountainDon]

I have never started a fight. But I have struck back.

I've worn glasses since I began school. I was thin and always afraid of fights because if my glasses got knocked off they might get broken and I knew they cost my parents a lot. Plus that just wasn't my nature. So I avoided confrontation, I turned the other cheek a lot just like the sermons told me. However, I recall a time in junior high (middle school) when this guy who was an absolute bully really got to me. He wasn't that big, he was simply a bully. I do not recall what he did to provoke me, but I do remember taking off my glasses, handing them to my even smaller friend David, then quickly turning around and letting Cody have it hard in the face, repeatedly. He never bothered me after that.

If someone is breaking into your house it is probably not because they need a toilet. On the one hand I hope that nobody is home if we are broken into. However, if I was present it would be a cause for serious alarm. Someone breaking in could just as easily be armed and have no qualms about severely beating myself or my wife or anyone else present. They could just as easily kill me and my loved ones. I believe I would maintain my presence of mind to act responsibly, that is I do not plan on coming out with blazing guns. I would yell and shout at the intruder that I was armed and they should drop to the floor; yell and shout. I would want to be ready to let them run if they choose to do so, without chasing or shooting after them. If they chose to run at me, making threatening moves, then and only then would I shoot. That's a lot of presence of mind called for. If I'm ever called to put it to test that's how I want to see it play out... the part of them dropping to the floor scared is my first druther, my second would be them running very fast in the direction they came from... that's what I want most in an imagined situation like that.

If they made the move to attack me, no I would not blow their head off, that's too small a target, just like their knee or their arm is too small a target. It calls for a chest shot; it's the biggest target.



BTW, statistics show that a person in Canada is much more likely to be involved in a break in when they are at home than they are in most places in the USA. That's because in Canada the homeowner is much less likely to be armed and less of a threat to the intruder.

[Jens]

Just watched the movie Windpower.  Here is a favorite quote, "I saw a picture of Obama playing basketball, and I said you know what, I see him as a leader, and that's the world in his hands," what I thought was funny, is that the photo showed him THROWING the "world" through a hole!  Not funny haha, funny in that kinda sick, ironic way.

I'm sure this film is loaded with propaganda, yet plenty of truth as well.  All I have to say is, scary, not surprising, and, duhh!

[glenn kangiser]

Jens, While stainless will last longer, in the post industrial society after the holocaust, you will find that anything goes.  If someone tries to make a regulation as to what type of pipe is proper you will simply blast them.  I would suggest black single wall stovepipe supported with bailing wire.


Sorry - couldn't find a better post industrial vehicle



 Blast 'em