So what's the plan for Iran?

[Sassy]

Evaluating Iran's Missile Threat
"BY RICHARD L. GARWIN
The United States wants to use technology that doesn't work to stop an Iranian missile threat that doesn't exist."
http://thebulletin.metapress.com/content/a7v4162714u42202/fulltext.pdf
http://www.thebulletin.org/  The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists


Report: Billions in defense spending unchecked
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90U74D01&show_article=1

Planned US Israeli Attack on Iran: Will there be a War against Iran?
by Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8861

[NM_Shooter]

Oh c'mon.  I know you really don't want my opinion on this 

The problem is, if we wait until 2015 for them to have the technology, it is far too late.  I am much more worried about a cargo ship delivered bomb than a missile. 

So, being the sensitive sort, I have a simple four step program since they seem intent on developing high grade nuke material, and have vowed to use it against us and Israel.

1)  Kick their A$$ back to middle ages technology-wise.
2)  Take oil to pay for it.
3)  Leave.  Tell them to forget the nukes and behave, and police themselves.
4)  Monitor closely and repeat as necessary.

Trying to run a politically correct war does nothing but get our troops killed.  It is also what causes budgets to get over run.  War should be waged all out or not at all. 

Okay libs, flame on.

[Sassy]

 

Was a staunch right wing conservative Republican just 4-5 yrs ago...  seems some of this administration's antics have caused me to go "Constitutional" ...  certainly not a liberal or democrat...   

[muldoon]

I dont think were going to do anything other than rattle the sabers.   

I dont think the US has any support internationally for another war.  So what if they have nukes, we have nukes, Isreal has nukes, China, Russia, and a long list.  Having nukes is not a crime anymore than having a gun in your house is a crime.  The world will not support this, it will be looked upon like the Nazi invasion of Europe.  Here in the US, there is no support for another war either.  With things slowing, people are having a difficult time keeping their heads above water and are not interested in going to war again with someone who has not harmed us.  The existing administration has zero credibility and no one belives the propaganda.  It's over for these clowns and they know it. 

[NM_Shooter]

First off, I agree that Bush is a joke, and also I see plenty of support for removing the Iranian threat.

I am frightened that many don't see the risk of a country that has vowed destruction on the US and allies working to obtain the power to easiliy carry out that threat, and to poison the globe in the process.  They want nukes as an offensive weapon, not a defensive one.  That cannot be allowed. 

I agree that we can not afford another war to be run like the one that we are currently in.

I suspect that Israel will be the ones to initiate the resolution to this problem.  (I also suspect that I may be the most conservative person on this board. I do find some quite a bit of good ideas from libetarians though...)
   

[glenn kangiser]

Frank, I think the threat is mainly trumpeted by the mainstream media who are parrots for the current administration.  They keep the bogeyman stories going so the portion of the public that will believe them will be scared.

If it were not for the current idiots in office I doubt there would be any threat.  Look who the ones are that are currently terrorizing the world -- it is our leaders in the quest for power, oil and world dominance. 

We are poisoning the globe.  We have dumped depleted uranium all over the globe.

http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/news2001/nn11107.htm

We are poisoning our own soldiers, their wives, their children their futures.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james29.htm

There are three effects of depleted uranium on biologic systems –radiation, chemical and particulate. The particulate effect of nano-sized particles is the most important of these three. This appears immediately after exposure and targets the master code of DNA. Simply stated depleted uranium "trashes the body." The DNA damage is so severe these patients develop multiple simultaneous cancers from different causes. This new syndrome has never been reported before and is unique to internal depleted uranium exposure. Such patients were seen in civilians in Yugoslavia after NATO bombing using DU bombs. There is currently an epidemic of cancer in Iraqi children.

Another horrifying consequence of DU exposure is damage to sperm causing many severe deformities in the children born to veterans of the first Gulf War. A group of 251 soldiers from Mississippi, who all had normal babies before service in Iraq, were studied. Sixty seven percent of their post war babies were born with severe birth defects. These children were missing legs, arms, organs or eyes and had immune system and blood diseases. In some Gulf War veterans families the only normal children are those who were born before serving in Iraq. The Department of Defense denies any knowledge of birth defects in Gulf War I veterans.

From link below.

The horrifying reality of these birth defects is that midwives are purported to have said they no longer look forward to births as.... "We don't know what's going to come out."

http://www.p10k.net/ken_human_guinea_pig.htm

"May God bless each and every one of them." Cursed is more like it. I ultimately participated in the Gulf War massacre. Today, I consider this a shamefully ignorant act on my behalf. My stupidity was rewarded by experiencing first hand, the ground war that began a month later. During this "war" I was exposed to the combat environment of retreating Iraqi soldiers. For this, my unit (2cd Battalion 4th Marines) was awarded a "Combat Action Ribbon." And it is combat conditions that provided the greatest exposure for ground troops to Depleted Uranium (DU), something we knew nothing about at the time. As you know, DU dust is produced via armor-piercing munitions used by the US and Britain. It is an undeniable fact that Bush Sr. was fully aware that the sons and daughters who were the nations finest were unwittingly being exposed to DU, something that has caused immense pain and suffering for Americans, but even more hideously, for Iraqi mothers and fathers and their children. I believe this is proof positive that Bush Sr. is a most dishonorable man at least, or a war criminal that is responsible for mass murder of his own "sons and daughters" at worst. I will charge the latter.

"Tests show Gulf War victims have uranium poisoning" - The Sunday Times (London) September 3rd 2000

American and British forces fired more than 700,000 DU shells during the conflict. This amounts to approximately 315 tons of DU dust left by the use of DU ammunition. 600,000 soldiers including myself were not warned of DU hazards in the Gulf. It is this Depleted Uranium dust that may ultimately lead to my death. My "blessing" as a US Serviceman.

You are right that Israel may start it and drag us into it like the slobbering puppy dogs we are. Fewer of us are wanting to go willingly.

They probably won't be able to poison the world - our fearless leaders have already done that.

Mission Akomplished.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZSKvSz1roQ&feature=related

[glenn kangiser]

Note - that (the above) was only what was admitted in the first gulf war massacre.  Since then we have presented the world and our servicemen with hundreds of tons more of it.  We still offer no protection for our servicmen as officially there is not a problem.

US forces admit to using over 300 tons of DU weapons in 1991. The actual figure is closer to 800. Also the US used 200 tons more in Baghdad alone during the recent invasion with a total of 1500 tons in all of Iraq. And this time it wasn't limited to anti-tank weapons but was extended to guided missiles, large bunker busters and big 2000-pound bombs used in Iraq's cities. This means that Iraq's cities have been blanketed in lethal particles. Japanese professor, Dr. Yagasaki, calculated that 800 tons of DU is the atomicity equivalent of 83,000 Nagasaki bombs. The US has used more DU since 1991 than the atomicity equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. The "smog of war" from the 1991 Gulf War was found in deposits in South America, the Himalayas and Hawaii. In addition, the use of DU in huge bombs which throw the deadly particles higher and wider in huge plumes of smoke means that billions of deadly particles have been carried high into the air swept worldwide by the winds. In June 2003, the WHO announced in a press release that global cancer rates will increase 50% by 2020. In 1997, while citing experiments in which 84% of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of lung cancer, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington said: "The US Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body." Dr. Durakovic's UMRC (Uranium Medical Research Center) research team also conducted a 3 week trip to Iraq Oct/03 in 10 cities, including Baghdad, Basra and Najaf. He said preliminary tests showed that the air, soil and water samples contained "hundreds to thousands of times" the normal levels of radiation. Durakovic told The Japan Times: "They are hampering efforts to prove the connection between DU and the illness." Since then, Dr. Durakovic was warned to stop his work, then he was fired from his position, then his house was ransacked, and he has also repeatedly received death threats. www.sfbayview.com/du

http://www.countercurrents.org/us-paulinson161106.htm

[NM_Shooter]

You can find alarmist information on both sides it appears, as well as discrediting reports pro / con.  There are many times that I don't know how to interpret this data, as claims and counter claims are rampant.  One guy says this, another guy says that.   The Countercurrents.org blog is not exactly a scientific / impartial source, much like Michael Moore's efforts.  (Neither is the right wing propoganda machine)

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18725103.200-depleted-uranium-exposure-should-not-increase-cancer-risk.html

[Sassy]

Here's a link regarding depleted uranium & our Vets...  http://www.news-journalonline.com/special/uranium/  Several scientists remark on the effects of DU. 

I was working at the VA in a primary care clinic after the Gulf War I...  I saw many veterans - male & female, who had been very healthy going into the short time of combat & were very ill with chronic diarrhea, muscle wasting, memory problems, deformed babies being born...  it was very sad - the military totally denied that these veterans had anything wrong with them, although they clear DID have something wrong with them.  It's like the Vietnam war & Agent Orange.  My dad had constant rashes after coming back from there, he died of esophageal cancer - don't know if that had anything to do with it, I rather doubt it, but there have been several veterans that I personally know - one was an LVN that I worked with for years who died of leukemia/lymphoma 4-5 yrs ago, another nurse's husband died 3 ys ago of leukemia/lymphoma & one of the nurses I currently work with - her husband has been battling the same thing for the past 2-3 yrs...  the military finally recognizes that different types of leukemia & lymphoma can be caused by the Agent Orange, also skin conditions & adult onset diabetes. 

Here's a link to effects of radiation on the human body...  http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/radeffects.shtml

You are right, Shooter - it is so difficult to tell the spin from the truth.  I listen to a lot of "right wing Christian" talk shows & often wonder just where they are getting their info - especially when it comes to Israel, Iran, Muslims, etc.  I've also read books on missionaries who have gone to Palestine to minister to the Christians there & they paint a whole different picture - one eye opening book I read was called Light Force by Brother Andrew.  He has been smuggling Bibles & ministering to persecuted Christians for 40 yrs all over the world - the old Soviet Union, China, Palestine etc.  Then I listen & read some of John Hagee's stuff - my dad faithfully watched him on TV everyday - I would consider what he has to say as "hate speech" - there is some truth, but most of it is totally taken out of context or scriptures are twisted...  It's amazing to me - I'm certainly not an expert, but golly gee, I often wonder where people are coming from...  I read a lot of Christian websites that say the opposite of what the Right wing Christians are saying & I tend to believe them - http://www.newswithviews.com/  is one site I really like.  I also read http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ - they are kinda in the middle, I read the GOP site, a lot of sites that some would consider "conspiracy" sites; sometimes even listen to a little bit of FOX news      usually over the net just to hear what stuff they are saying...  I pray that I am not deceived by any of them.  One thing I would say, being a Christian...  Christ said to go out & share the Gospel or "good news" of salvation to all the world - how can we do that by killing everyone & coercing them to live like us - our example & love should draw them in, not our hatred, torture & death...  so I sorta judge what the "Christian leaders" are saying by that standard...  the "world" may have a whole different set of standards...  anyway, that's where I'm at... 

[peternap]

I'm going to sit this one out...except to say that I agree with some of what everybody has said but every damn word Muldoon posted!

[glenn kangiser]

I'm not right or left though depending on the topic I may come off as such -- you could call me anti-authoritarian or anarchist or anti-political.  I don't want or need any of the thieving, lying. money grubbing power mongers.

2)  Take oil to pay for it.

Re-reading, Frank -- I picked this up --- This is precisely what we are doing now with Iraq -- oh -- but wait a minute -- they lied again.  Looks like none of the money had to be accounted for so -- wonder what happened to it. hmm

http://www.amconmag.com/2005/2005_10_24/cover.html

Before the war, Mr Bush endorsed claims that Iraq's oil would pay for reconstruction. But the shortage of revenues afterwards has silenced him on this point. More recently he has argued that oil should be used as a means to unify the country, "so the people have faith in central government", as he put it last summer.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0107-02.htm

Left - right or center -- if they are politicians you can't trust them.

[MountainDon]

Oooh, I missed this because I was off in the mountains; so I'll comment as a Johnny Come Lately...

I'm in the same corner as Frank on this. I don't trust Iran with nuclear devices given the talk that comes out of that country.

EDIT: I previously mistyped Iraq when I meant Iran and didn't notice it. Sorry.

[glenn kangiser]

Iran I'll bet ...but given the BS coming from our figure head, can you blame them?  Would you protect yourself if You were threatened weekly then attacked on your own soil?

We should go beat up, bomb and kill everyone else in the world because they threatened us back after we threatened them multiple times.  Oh yeah -- right -- I forgot ...it is OK if they have oil.

But North Korea has actually threatened us back with nukes after dubya said he despised their leader and made threats at them.  Oh yeah -- but we don't have to do anything to them because they do have nukes and they don't have oil.  Yup it all makes good sense to me.  

That would make me want to get nukes.

[NM_Shooter]

Do you really think we started the problem?  (Considering their holy book calls for our destruction? What... that was written after George Bush became president?)

I'm okay with nukes as defensive deterrents. 

This is not the case for Iran.

Once they use one, it is far, far too late.

A nuke is the ultimate hammer.  Given the instability of the typical radical muslim, they will pull that hammer out the instant they get pissed, which seems to be at least once every day.  Or they will provide them to a group that will use them in a terrorist fashion. 

I've heard some very sobering things about Iran's development.  Such as that it is so far underground that it will take a nuke to penetrate and stop them.  Or an all out ground effort to reach the site.

Neither is palatable, but even worse is the idea of them having nukes.

We tend to pussyfoot around, until problems get out of hand.  This is comparable to finding a cockroach in your kitchen and not doing anything for months.  Here we are, twiddling our thumbs again.

Does anyone remember how flag waving we were after 9/11?  People driving around in trucks with three big American flags waving behind, flags everywhere... talk shows filled with patriotism and everyone "proud to be an American"?  What a bunch of hypocrites we all are.

If you think that George Bush is the reason for the hate pointed toward us, you have not been paying attention to history.  George has only been an international problem for ~8 years.

Why do we have to have extreme damage inflicted on our own in order to engage our paternalistic instincts?  Here is a sworn enemy of the west who has vowed our destruction.  They have proven their intent by violent action before.  The ONLY thing that has kept them from being successful is that they lacked a big enough hammer.   You are okay with them building that hammer?

Saber rattling I don't mind.  Nuke rattling is another thing. 

[glenn kangiser]

I don't think that George Bush is the problem.  He is only part of the problem.  Our policies are part of the problem and the ones steering the government are part of the problem.

Corporate profit is part of the problem.  Haliburton, General Dynamics, KBR, Carlysle Group, tons more,make big money off of the war machine by keeping you worried that Iran is going to nuke us. 

The mainstream media tells you what the government wants them to and right away 95% of the people believe it is true.  Then those 95% run out to the dime store, buy a bunch of Chinese made American flags, tape them to their antennas, roll them up in their windows on cheap Chinese holders, leave them out at night unlighted in their front yards to deteriorate in the weather and they are the most patriotic sheeple in the country.  They agree to unlimited spending, full cavity searches and x-ray stripping for domestic travel and relinquishing their rights in support of the exaggerated threat. 

To get the sheeple to agree to that all they had to do was scare them out of their wits by assisting, encouraging and helping multiple false flag attacks on the country over the last century.

Here is just one instance- check it out.  It is by a Veteran who was on the ship when we assisted in the Israeli attack and coverup to sway public opinion in favor of a war to attack Egypt.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4675.0

Is it nuke rattling or is it corporate profit nuke rattling? 

Bush and his corporate money soiled cabal will continue to spew the lies even though our own agencies have said there is no threat.  They know that most of the sheeple will believe them and follow in a patriotic frenzy. 

Patriotism is not following a bunch of profiteering war mongers no matter what lie they tell you.  That's team spirit. 

Patriotism is loving your country enough to not let a group like the criminals in charge destroy the economy by unending wars that accomplish nothing other than transfer tax money to their own coffers and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent victims.  Yes it is real bullets, real bombs, and real blood.  You just don't get to see it lest you should begin to disagree. 

It will continue as the ones steering the government have their man in place to make it business as usual.  McCain participated in the coverup of the failed false flag operation on the USS Liberty, jointly concocted by the Israelis and the US government, nor would he allow an investigation.  This treason was classified information for 40 years.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran4dec04,0,2695315.story?coll=la-home-center

Please watch this MSNBC news.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7cuN_3C59I

Absolute lies for corporate profits.

[ScottA]

I thought that was McCains father who was the admiral???

Israel will be the ones who start the war with Iran not the US. But you'd have to be blind to not see that it has been planned out with US help. My guess is the next false flag attack will be against Israel and get blamed on Iran. Ofcourse the US will have no choice but to back it's favorite ally. Germany will be dragged in with a 50 year old guilt trip and the rest of nato will tag along for the ride.

[benevolance]

well the only country ever to use the Nuke is the USA...So we are the country that is the threat... a threat to the rest of the world... Our nukes are not a defensive deterrant.... we will use them if anyone poses a serious challenge to our world dominance.

And is it funny for Israel to judge other countries and to be the moral compass for the middle east

Want to know who has annually topped the list for crimes against humanity pretty much every year since WWII...thats right fans it is Israel...Their occupation and settlement of disputed territory is a direct violation of international law that was passed after WWII because of the Nazi's

It always makes me laugh when  a us secretary of state or a embassador says the rest of the middle east region must respect and recognize Israel...When Israel has never followed the rules of the UN... They have never respected any other country in that region... That their country exists mostly because they for years defied the UN and illegally smuggled over a million jews into what was palestine before 1948...And then took control of all the arable land, water and minerals from arab land owners in what is now Israel immediately after 1948

And newsflash folks.. Israel has a nuke... So it makes them a hippocrit to say that only benevolent powers should hold deadly weapons... They are almost as bad as hitler and his band of Nazi's and they have Nukes...No way on earth that Iran is as bad as Israel when it comes to human rights, international law, the UN, or morals

[NM_Shooter]

Beenvolence, provide your sources on Israel please.  I want to see that list of crimes against humanity.

Have they sworn the destruction of their enemies?  (I'll answer for you)  No.

I find your handle very ironic. 

[glenn kangiser]

You are right , Scott.  I thought it was the current one but apparently it was his dad.   I guess he's not that old. 

I would look for the same trend of thought though.

[MountainDon]

I thought that was McCains father who was the admiral???

Exactly, Presidential candidate McCain is not that old.   



Edit: Ooops I see Glenn got in there while I was reading multiple open topics.

[Sassy]

Here's a short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlWSv0NZBRw&feature=related  Tell me what you think... 

[glenn kangiser]

Yup - you're late, Don -- we have already moved on to Israeli crimes against humanity.

Search "Israeli crimes against humanity" for much more.  Note that this is mostly the Zionists doing this -- there are a lot of other anti-zionist Jews who feel this is wrong too.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060721&articleId=2787

http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis7.html

[NM_Shooter]

Oh c'mon.  You chide me about believing mainstream media, and then post "data" from what is effectively "bob's blogs and muffler shop videos against the US"?   

Haven't you noticed a HUGE downturn in the amount of terrorist attacks around the globe while we are engaged in Afghanistan / Iraq?  We couldn't go 6 months before that without a ship, embassy, trade center, railroad or something getting bombed.

I want to see the list that puts Israel at the top for crimes against humanity.  Betcha if there is one it was edited by Palestine.

So what about the original question?  That was "what should we do?". 

-f-

BTW.. if you read that article about McCain, it was actually pointing out that McCain Jr. was endorsing a book that absolved his dad McCain Sr. 

[MountainDon]

Oh c'mon.  You chide me about believing mainstream media, and then post "data" from what is effectively "bob's blogs and muffler shop videos against the US"?   

Haven't you noticed a HUGE downturn in the amount of terrorist attacks around the globe while we are engaged in Afghanistan / Iraq?  We couldn't go 6 months before that without a ship, embassy, trade center, railroad or something getting bombed.

Hmmm. How about that? Coincidence? I think not.

[glenn kangiser]

Apparently you guys choose to ignore any mainstream media I post so it doesn't do much good to post it for you.  You choose to unquestioningly follow the current official propaganda.

LA Times is mainstream I think.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran4dec04,0,2695315.story?coll=la-home-center

Please watch this MSNBC news.  MSNBC is mainstream I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7cuN_3C59I

Crimes against humanity with the US being complicit in the false flag attack-

Israels attack  on the Liberty fits there -- told by a veteran who was attacked.

I don't see how you can discount that unless your mind is closed to everything but what you want to hear.

http://moderate.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/video-phil-tourneys-speech-uss-liberty-survivor-at-the-no-more-wars-for-israel-conference/