OK tornados

[Don_P]

This is a good description of how contrails form and why sometimes they dissapate rapidly and sometimes they spread and linger. It all revolves around temperature and relative humidity aloft.
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html

Sassy is describing cloud seeding, I'm not exactly sure what to say there except, yup, it can work under the right conditions. A mighty expensive way to make rain... or not. If it could be done reliably I'm sure the farm lobby would be all over it. Do notice they were propagating clouds using a substance that sublimes an awful lot better than water ice. It's all just physical science happening in front of our eyes. I know we like to be able to explain to ourselves the way things work, it is in our nature.

[glenn kangiser]

Don, add to the mix the fact that the grids are perfectly laid out as in computer generated patterns rather than any flight paths and you can see that they are done for a specific purpose. 

You would think flight controllers would not be concerned if they were normal.  I spent a lot of time working with flight controllers on IFR flights and training.  They are very familiar with what is normal and what is not.

I'll check out your link.

[glenn kangiser]

I can buy some of that, Don but the ones we have around here often spread and cover the entire sky.  They are not light cover as the ones in their study.

You are right about cloud seeding... My flight instructor did that for a living, over the Sierras.  Not the same animal though.

This guy has a point and it is one of my main peeves.  My solar panels and garden are affected by the jet generated clouds no matter what they are made of.

Farm Wars -Fighting to Save the Family Farm!

Chemtrail Alert: Joe Marman Suing Shasta County Air Quality Mgt District – You Can Join!


Per your linked report I just read, Don, they can shade the ground causing low pressure which then spawns tornadoes in Oklahoma.  A pebble in the pond produces ripples at the other side.  A Tsunami in Japan produces a tidal wave in California.  Weather is very much like water and I use that likeness to explain clear air turbulence to people who have not experienced it before.  Low pressure created under these jet generated clouds does affect the weather in Oklahoma.  No question. 

If we have a problem seeing chemtrails, then lets look at stopping the jet produced clouds that cause low pressure that cause tornadoes.  I agree with the guy above.

[Don_P]

And we're off after another windmill, that is easy    Careful who's driving this bus.
Here's another, and yes there is more fodder in there if you are bent on it, at least it is closer to reality  ;
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz

[glenn kangiser]

And we're off after another windmill, that is easy    Careful who's driving this bus.
Here's another, and yes there is more fodder in there if you are bent on it, at least it is closer to reality  ;
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz

Not a credible source in this case since they are from the Federal Government who also controls the Air Force and other agencies who are indicated by studies to be involved in the spraying.  The above is a cover story.

The are also the ones in charge of "Owning the Weather By 2025"  A disclaimer on the report does not mean they are not doing it.  They have a bad track record of being dishonest and hiding things from their citizens.

Most of the science agencies sole support stems from the government and of course they will not bite the hand that feeds them with paychecks, study grants etc.  Not credible sources.  Independent sources without a need to provide cover stories are more credible.

[glenn kangiser]

I suppose these pilots are all making fake chemtrails to trick us along with their conspiring photographers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEOod0LFDtI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psdg3OAw_a8&feature=related

990,000 people wondered enough to look at the above video.

Maybe this is where the 350 Billion the Pentagramgon lost went... Gotta be expensive.

[Sassy]

Don P, I understand the difference between cloud seeding to make it rain & chemtrails   

Here's an article from NASA  http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/20jun_tmaclouds/  Where they are experimenting w/spraying trimethylaluminum (TMA) in the ionosphere. 

It's pretty late so I will post more - yes, I'm sure you are eagerly waiting 

[rwanders]

I suppose these pilots are all making fake chemtrails to trick us along with their conspiring photographers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEOod0LFDtI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psdg3OAw_a8&feature=related

990,000 people wondered enough to look at the above video.

Maybe this is where the 350 Billion the Pentagramgon lost went... Gotta be expensive.

Glenn. surely you are not as gullible as this in your business or personal (real) life. You Tube videos couldn't be more undependable.  All 990.000 only indicates how many are either gulls or merely fans of internet silliness or bored and surfing.

If you really believe they are "chemtrails" then every commercial or military jet must have secret tanks and all pilots US and/or foreign must be part of this fantasy. If you are really pilot, you know this is patent nonsense. 

Glenn,

You Crazy!

You Pulling Our Legs You Wild N Crazy Guy!

[glenn kangiser]

http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft.asp?tn=N8147Z

Doesn't take that many planes - tankers and lots of fuel money which our military have.  It is not necessarily secret from the military pilots who are doing it - likely confidential is all with a reasonable mission cover story.

I have my own videos similar to the Youtube ones (ground only) so I don't have a question about them seeing the trails.

If you insist though - lets forget the chemical testing many have done.  Lets just get our clear blue skies back rather than this spreading jet pollution we see way too often.

[rwanders]

'Lets just get our clear blue skies back rather than this spreading jet pollution we see way too often."

Glenn, I do agree that the high altitude jet contrails are becoming an issue since the traffic has and is growing so fast. I don't believe it's an indication of a conspiracy but, can accept there are questions that need to be settled. Essentially, do they constitute a threat and if so, what needs or can be done to mitigate that threat?

Glenn, I think trying to frame this kind of human generated problem as being due to some arcane conspiracy only serves to make any serious discussion about causes and solutions more difficult. It makes it too easy for the public to dismiss any attempt to address it as "just another bunch of nut cases peddling nonsense". 

Sometimes, no harm is done, everybody has a good laugh and life goes on---other times, real problems are tarred with that brush and things only continue to fester.

[glenn kangiser]

I think they do constitute a threat simply from the loss of our solar power, food growing ability and increased health problems in areas where there is so much pollution from it, though I am not ready to accept the sane peoples explanation and drop the other evidence.

If the sane people need to have something they can believe before they can get up in arms about it then lets see them work on it from a pollution standpoint.

I keep having this thought that you are still on a government payroll to support their conspiracy, RW....

[rwanders]

I think they do constitute a threat simply from the loss of our solar power, food growing ability and increased health problems in areas where there is so much pollution from it, though I am not ready to accept the sane peoples explanation and drop the other evidence.

If the sane people need to have something they can believe before they can get up in arms about it then lets see them work on it from a pollution standpoint.

I keep having this thought that you are still on a government payroll to support their conspiracy, RW....

If i was being paid I should be doing a better job and on top of that they haven't sent me a paycheck since April of 1969 when I separated from the Army.

[glenn kangiser]

You're doing just fine though...

[rwanders]

My boss did tell me a Mrs Kangiser was sending in much better reports and I have been replaced by her----could she be related to you?  I think I am being reassigned to Windpower's dossier.

RW

[Sassy]

 

[glenn kangiser]

My boss did tell me a Mrs Kangiser was sending in much better reports and I have been replaced by her----could she be related to you?  I think I am being reassigned to Windpower's dossier.

RW

Hmmmm RW...

I wonder if she's really here on assignment.... she actually is a Fed you know......

Possibly I better watch out and see if I can catch her in some under-cover ops.....

Note to self... must support Windpower..... 

[Native_NM]

I can't say the government doesn't do crazy or spooky stuff, but if one ever looks at old photos, the ones from before the the modern jet era, there are similar cloud patterns documented.  There is an entire book on weird cloud patterns that was published in the 1930's.  Photography is older than modern aviation.  On the other hand, when was the dust bowl?  Just saying... 

[rwanders]

 

NM,remember-----Glenn is Crazy!  and, He has help on this forum.


Good post NM, too bad rationality rolls off some folks backs like ducks and water.

RW

[Native_NM]

The problem I have with most conspiracies is they depend on the government to be smart and keep a secret. 

[rwanders]

The problem I have with most conspiracies is they depend on the government to be smart and keep a secret. 

You got that right, NM.

The problem with most conspiracy theorists is they depend on us to believe that they are so smart their allegations aren't subject to the normal rules of logic and that piling unsupported assertions on top of each other somehow builds a defensible conclusion.

There was even a whole school of philosophers built on those techniques during the golden age of ancient Greece. They were known as the Sophists and their logically fallacious arguments are known to us as Sophistry---the art of constructing arguments that appear to be logically rigorous but, depend on rhetorical and semantic distortions to disguise unsupported assertions and gaps in logic.

Politicians and con men of all stripes are often enthusiastic practitioners of this ancient art form. A good sophist can make those unfamiliar with their techniques believe it when they "prove" that black is white regardless of what your lying eyes tell you.

I suspect our President has at least a few practitioners of the ancient art writing his speeches---he isn't that good on his own when he has to speak extemporaneously.
                       

[Native_NM]

Maybe they were using pterodactyls to spray in AD 1300 to force the Vikings out!?

http://m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/lp/story/us/96034/coke.bp%3B_ylt=AqO4iGBIedtBcEA.WGdH_qKx.tw4%3B_ylu=X3oDMTI3YzZlaGZqBGNjb2RlA210cHpidQRjcG9zAzIEY3NlYwNtb2JpbGUtdGQEaW50bAN1cwRwa2cDaWQtOTYwMzQEcG9zAzIEc2xrA2ltYWdl?ref_w=frontdoors&view=today&.intl=US&.lang=en&.tsrc=yahoo

[glenn kangiser]

Gov - not necessarily smart... devious --- always threatening insiders with court martial or other hideous punishments.  My FIL would not talk about his classified assignments clear to his death- I know lots of veterans and dead veterans who still won't reveal the secrets they swore not to tell.  Lots of power to keep things silent - threats of serious punishment -- look at the USS Liberty.  Those boys had to remain silent about Israel blowing them to smithereens. Just released from their oaths recently as I recall.  I wouldn't expect the spray pilots to talk.... btw... . they did us good today to and more weather on its way east.

Obviously there were cases of spraying at other times , but not to the extent there is today.  Vietnam was one - tons of agent orange - they had the technology back then - what is stopping them from using it now ---- scruples and love of American citizens... like the love they showed in the Tuskegee experiments or the Nevada Bomb tests?

Sorry but it was so obvious today I just can't back off of this.  There were normal jets flying above the spreading trails today leaving no expanding trail but low pressure formed and brought in a lot of unexpected rain and low clouds as well as adding tomorrow for even more rain.

I know - you already explained it to me... but I'm not really buying it.

I guess it must be that normal jet contrail problem we are talking about bringing in that low pressure.  Guess we better try to get rid of that normal pollution causing full cloud cover, eh?

Sorry I'm unable to participate in the discussion better.....working......  [ouch]

[glenn kangiser]

NBC chemtrail report - questions - no positive conclusions but more questioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTI2Ynr9rxM&feature=share