Evolving sub-200 sq ft Cabin Shed

[waggin]

Very pretty!  Is that a kit, or are you just showing it as an example of what you're building?

Not much happening right now; I'm doing a little material hunting for skids and trying to choose between gable & shed roofs.  There are currently some 6x8 pressure treated beams on Craigslist, so if the price is right, it will be wood skids.  If not, the fallback is some I-beams, which will require a little more work, but would really be stout, plus I'm guessing they will slide on the ground easier. 

First thing is to finish up a few odds & ends on my existing house & get it back on the market.  Tried to sell last year without doing everything, which was a mistake.  I'm hoping to be starting on the project by March or April.  In the mean time, lots of Craigslist hunting, questions, and designing will be taking place.  I'm shooting for low-cost on this one, so Craigslist & free materials will be sought out as much as possible. 

Yours is going to be a lot fancier than mine.  I'm going for something along the lines of Wendigo's 12' x 12' or the 12' x 16' Modern Manshed.  Are you going to start a build thread for yours?

[Pritch]

Steel I-beams as skids?  Won't that be a major corrosion issue? 

[waggin]

Between the steel and the P/T lumber or the skid and the ground?  With the ground, I'm would think the time frame for corrosion would be a really long time.  Should it be a concern?  If so, I can put gravel or something else underneath to avoid direct contact where it rests.

[Solar Burrito]

Hi It's kinda a kit but with no actual cuts pre made. It's from a WA company called Penny Pincher Barns. This one's called the Owl's Clover mini-cabin. The deal is they will give you the engineered plans to your specs (like snow load) and my exsisting aluminum windows left over from my house, then they source all the material from a lumber mill near me and have EVERYTHING delivered to your site. The price was right for us. Yes I will start a thread when things start happening. I just found an exterior door on Craiglist for $40 pre-hung, it's wood but it's an ok deal I guess.


About your skids.. How many times are you planning on moving it? I would think either PT wood or steel would be fine. Like you say, thick steel beams would a long time to rust away!

We have a shed that came with our property that's on skids sitting on pier blocks. It needs to be moved about 20 feet. I think I'm going to cut the nails that attacheh the pier brackets to the skids with a saws-all then either jack it up and put some small logs to roll it there or just hook it to my jeep and drag it.... Not sure if that is even possible but I'm sure the log rolling with work.

shed moving video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-qxaypu98&feature=fvw

[Yonderosa]

I like that plan a lot.  A lot of style for the size, not to difficult to build.

[Ndrmyr]

I too like the style. Couple of thoughts tho...While I'm not opposed to the Steel beam/skids, I'm a little skittish about no real bond to hold your structure down other than weight.  That structure has a relatively small footprint to height ratio, which is the opposite of most garden sheds that sit on skids.  I think you've got to give some thought to at least earth anchors bolted or welded to the skids in the event of strong winds or even micro-bursts. As our weather patterns become more erratic, we seem to see more of these.  A nice side benefit is that a rough terrain forklift might well be able to move or reposition this structure, and, if in the distant future, you decided to add a basement or fruit or storm cellar, it would be very possible to do with this foundation method.
Likewise on your garden shed, a 3 hour rental of a strong skidsteer with fork tines would move that shed likity split.  A couple of years ago at the old railroad gravel pit where I'm building my cabin, an 80 yr old retired RR bridge-builder needed to move a storage shed on a slab. Over the summer he jacked it up, moving the shed and later the slab by rolling it on pipes. At one point, when he had the slab repositioned and the shed ready to place on the slab, I offered to lift it in place with a backhoe and a strap. He refused saying it would "ruin" the fun.
That old man has understanding of the physical laws of the universe that is perhaps better than that of many an engineer. Move away!

[waggin]

Last month's real estate sales may have been down 27% nationally, but for me, this month's sales were up 100%...in other words, I sold my house!  Woohoo!  The sense of relief is unbelievable.  For now I'm renting a house halfway between my office and my land.  Now that all of the remodeling and repairs for selling are done and the place is sold, it's time to get back into playing around on my property.  I'll be somewhat busy getting unpacked and set up at the rental, but I'm once again scrounging Craigslist for shed/cabin supplies.  As always, design will depend on the opportunity that materials I find present.  Still going over the pros and cons of steel skids vs. pressure treated wood ones.  Anyone have any additional thoughts?

Sometime in the next week or two I need to get out there and test my homebrew weed killer recipe using vinegar, salt, and dish soap.  Has anyone ever tried that concoction?  I haven't done any mowing on the access easement or driveway all year, and the grass and weeds have taken over.  It's beyond capability of the mower now.  I'm psyched to get out there some more!

[freezengirl]

Good for you on the sale of your home It looks like you have a real nice spot for your cabin and lots of good advice from the folks here. Good luck!

[waggin]

Finally!  This week I actually put saw to wood and trimmed the ends of my (extreme overkill) 6"x12" PT skids.  Hey, that's what came up on Craigslist.  

I've decided to notch 2" deep across the skids and lay the joists across/through the notches.  The skids will be on 10' centers, so there will be a little overhang on the joist ends.  This weekend, I bought the 2x8x12' boards for the floor joists.  I went with doug fir for these, as it was recommended as being better than hemlock in moisture and pest resistance.  Thought about pressure treated, but decided it wasn't necessary.  In addition to an H1 clip at each joist/skid joint, I'm going to pre-drill and drive in two 60d x 8" nails at each joist/skid, from opposite sides at about a 45 deg angle from the top.  The plan is for the skids to rest on gravel, and I'll incorporate some kind of vapor barrier.  I also picked up 3/4" T&G plywood for the flooring this weekend.  Had to buy that new, unfortunately.  I've laid out the planned notch cuts on the skids, and if we get a break in the rain, I'm going to start cutting notches this week.

As of right now, I'm leaning toward a single pitch shed roof, but I'm not committed until I buy all the materials.

[Pine Cone]

Glad to hear you've started putting saw to timber. 

I think the notches are a good idea.  I have also seen plans with X-bracing on skid-building plans.
http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/extpubs/Plans/6099.pdf

For my shed on skids I trimmed a bit off the lower corner with a 45 degree cut and also drilled one inch holes near the end of each skid.  The thought was that I could put a small chain or cable though it for the eventual day I might want to move it using a piece of motorized equipment.  Easier to do now before there is a building on top of them...

[Solar Burrito]

2015 completion date?   

[waggin]

2015 completion date?  

Never put off until tomorrow what can be put off until the day after tomorrow.  

[waggin]

Over the last couple of weeks, I finally got serious about some site prep...

Building site covered in alders:



One of two piles of saplings/logs:



Snow covered building site free of alders.  Note two piles of alder sapling/logs in snow on right.  (Hard to see one in background is pictured in prior photo.)



Alders aren't the only things that grow like weeds here.  This is a 30'+ blackberry vine I pulled out of the trees!



Sunset/dusk picture from viewpoint partway down my hillside at an overlook point:



Had someone out with a small tractor/backhoe to do some work yesterday.  Got way more done than anticipated, and I was out there burning until after 7pm in the dark last night after starting before 9am.  Slept deeply last night!  More pictures to follow once I can get out there in daylight.

[Pine Cone]

Nice stacks of alder!

Now you need to get some tenon cutters and start making rustic furniture. 

I have made some, but I find that the alder starts to rot pretty darn quick in this climate unless you store it somewhere off the ground and out of the weather. 

You have enough for railings, some benches, a bed or three, and lots of chairs and stools.  Just make sure it is dry before you start or you will find that all your joints will get loose.   Don't ask me how I know

[waggin]

Pine Cone:  I'll try to get some of those alders protected, as it would be cool to play around with making some stuff.  I've got some really nicely shaped maples and cedars as well that I have my eye on for later.  They are still growing, so I can harvest at any time.  Your advice on bracing will be incorporated into the design as well...thanks!

Got some photos of the progress.  First are the beams I'm using for the skids.  The notches are roughly 2" deep, and the floor joists will cross them and have about 9" of overhang, since the skids are on 10' centers in my design.  I'll also put in some 60d spikes in pre-drilled holes.  Along with the bracing suggestions from Pine Cone, this thing should be fairly stout.

6" x 12" skids:



Cleared are for cabin:



Trenches for gravel where skids will rest (Note approval by inspector):



Now I need some gravel to put in the trenches.  Of course this requires some gravel for the driveway to allow the trucks to make it in to the site.

[Pine Cone]

Don't know what your gravel plans are for the driveway, but if possible, use a road base of larger ballast rock, maybe 3-5" in size, then one or two layers of smaller rock on top of that.   The large rock will keep the smaller rock from getting pushed into the soil too quickly. 

[waggin]

Was planning on looking for some geotextile fabric first, then a layer of the large 3"+ base rock.  I've read a bit about the geotextile fabric keeping the base rock from just being driven down into the soft soil.  My plan was to just use it at the soft areas on the driveway, as doing the whole 800' of driveway might get a tad spendy, and parts of it are quite solid already.  Any experience with geotextile fabric?

[Pine Cone]

I don't have any personal experience with geotextiles, the last road I laid out was in 1980 and they weren't common then.  Most everything I have heard about them is positive except for the additional costs.

I'll ask around at work and see if we are using them on new road construction on the forest properties we manage.

[klorinth]

Waggin,

I know a bit of time has gone by since you last posted but I thought I would comment.

Go with the geotextile fabric!!
I am currently living in an area with clay based wet soils. If you want a road to last you need to do a couple of things for sure. First scrape off the top layer of soil. That is the organic based stuff. You will have lots of this where you are. Then you need to line the whole thing with a tough fabric or felt. This is key for the longevity. If you do not do this part it will not matter if you use 3-5" base rock, the mud will slowly work its way up into your road. Remember how much rain you said you get. That will keep the soil under your road wet all year long unless you do something about it first.

Once you have the fabric in and lay a good layer of base rock down (6"+, I did 10") you can start with the course layers. Having another 4" on top of the base will give you a solid surface. The base rock will be your drainage plane. That is the most important part for your site. You need that rain to flow away from your road as soon as possible. I don't know what types of top coats you might have available. We used 4" of C base which is the course sand used in road construction here, and then topped that with crushed limestone. The limestone creates a really hard surface almost like cement.

Building roads this way is for making them last. Mine is designed to last at least 50 years, and shouldn't need any real work for the first 20 years. If you add a little extra top coat every 5-10 years it will last forever. It does require an initial investment though. You can reduce the cost a bit by using salvaged concrete for the base rock. Mine came from a bridge that was being rebuilt near us.

Good luck with your place. It looks like a beautiful spot.

[Yonderosa]

Sound advice Klorinth

About the only thing more expensive than Water in the Okanogan is gravel... 

[klorinth]

Yonderosa,

I completely understand. The cost of building a good road can be very large. The thing is that access can make all the difference for the rest of the property. If you have a good road that you can depend on even in heavy rains, then you can do anything.

I come from the Nelson area. Lots of rain and steep grades. If you don't get the access right you can be stuck when it comes time to bring in anything heavy. Lucky for me our property there has its own gravel pit. Makes our life easy for roads, foundations, and drainage. But most people have to truck it in at a large cost. The concrete I used here in Manitoba cost me about $50 a load. Dirt cheap compared to other stuff.

[speedfunk]

I had these used rugs that I thought would be a great really cheap subsitute  for geotextile fabric. make sure bottom rocks bigger then rug holes.  Reusing and saving money at same time. 

gl

[waggin]

Well, plans are really changing now.  Just bought a fixer cabin on some acreage up in Skagit County, and I'm going to be moving up there.  It comes with a 1998 permitted gravity septic system, a creek, some beautiful trees, and a partial view of Mt. Baker from higher up on the property.  I couldn't build on the land I already own for what I'm paying overall for the place, and it's got more acreage.  I'm thinking of building the same type of sub-200 square foot on PT skids building for storage only now, but for the time being I have to start packing and moving.  Oh, and I have to replace some of the plumbing that froze this winter before I bought it.  That and evict the squirrel that is living under the roof.  I'll probably keep this thread for the little shed and start a new one for the main cabin.  My other land will probably be up for sale once I get a chance to clean it up a bit.

Thanks for the tips on the geotextile fabric and rock, everyone.  They will come in hand for a couple of spots on the driveway at the new place.

[klorinth]

Congrats!

Good luck with the new place.
We'll be waiting for pics to be envious of.

[rniles]

My other land will probably be up for sale once I get a chance to clean it up a bit.

Hopefully you'll post your selling price here once you get a chance.