McCain & Obama

Started by desdawg, August 16, 2008, 09:55:21 PM

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Sassy

Obama and McCain: Pawns of the Global Elite?      

By Patrick Wood, Editor

Will it matter if Obama or McCain are elected in November? Hardly.

Both are rigidly backed by important members of the Trilateral Commission who hijacked the Executive Branch of the U.S. government starting in 1976 with the election of Jimmy Carter.

In Obama's case, Zbigniew Brzezinski (co-founder of the Commission in 1973) is emerging as his principal advisor on foreign policy. Ex-Fed Chairman Paul Volker has made a once-in-a-lifetime, glowing endorsement of Obama. Madelyn Albright is seen sitting next to Obama in several conferences. Shoot, even Jimmy Carter himself endorses Obama. All are top members of the Commission.

John McCain is being supported by several Trilateral Commission giants including: Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, Lawrence Eagleburger and Alexander Haig. All of these are ex-Secretaries of State who issued a joint endorsement of McCain early-on in his campaign.

And, unless Obama shoots both of his own feet (or...?) before the general presidential election in November, he is most likely to be the next president of the United States.

You would think that Americans would want to know who the "special interests" are that are embodied by this Trilateral Commission, and what they intend to do or not do with America.

What is the Trilateral Commission?

The Trilateral Commission was founded by the persistent maneuvering of David Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski in 1973. Rockefeller was chairman of the ultra-powerful Chase Manhattan Bank, a director of many major multinational corporations and "endowment funds" and had long been a central figure in the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). Brzezinski, a brilliant prognosticator of one-world idealism, was a professor at Columbia University and the author of several books that have served as "policy guidelines" for the Trilateral Commission.

Brzezinski served as the Commission's first executive director from its inception in 1973 until late 1976 when he was appointed by President Jimmy Carter as Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs.

The initial Commission membership was approximately three hundred, with roughly one hundred each from Europe, Japan and North America. Membership was also roughly divided between academics, politicians and corporate magnates; these included international bankers, leaders of prominent labor unions and corporate directors of media giants.

The word commission was puzzling since it is usually associated with instrumentalities set up by governments. It seemed out of place with a so-called private group unless we could determine that it really was an arm of a government - an unseen government, different from the visible government in Washington. European and Japanese involvement indicated a world government rather than a national government. We hoped that the concept of a sub-rosa world government was just wishful thinking on the part of the Trilateral Commissioners. The facts, however, lined up quite pessimistically.

If the Council on Foreign Relations could be said to be a spawning ground for the concepts of one-world idealism, then the Trilateral Commission was the "task force" assembled to assault the beachheads. Already the Commission had placed its members in the top posts the U.S. had to offer. con't below or go to link

https://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/u.s._elections/obama_and_mccain%3a_pawns_of_the_global_elite?_2008080597/
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

Sassy

con't from above

Jimmy Carter: The first Trilateral president

President James Earl Carter, the country politician who promised, "I will never lie to you," was chosen to join the Commission by Brzezinski in 1973. It was Brzezinski, in fact, who first identified Carter as presidential timber, and subsequently educated him in economics, foreign policy, and the ins-and-outs of world politics. Upon Carter's election, Brzezinski was appointed assistant to the president for national security matters. Commonly, he was called the head of the National Security Council because he answered only to the president - some said Brzezinski held the second most powerful position in the U.S.

Carter's running mate, Walter Mondale, was also a member of the Commission. (If you are trying to calculate the odds of three virtually unknown men, out of over sixty Commissioners from the U.S., capturing the three most powerful positions in the land, don't bother. Your calculations will be meaningless.)

On January 7, 1977 Time Magazine, whose editor-in-chief, Hedley Donovan was a powerful Trilateral, named President Carter "Man of the Year." The sixteen-page article in that issue not only failed to mention Carter's connection with the Commission but also stated the following:

    "As he searched for Cabinet appointees, Carter seemed at times hesitant and frustrated disconcertingly out of character. His lack of ties to Washington and the Party Establishment - qualities that helped raise him to the White House - carry potential dangers. He does not know the Federal Government or the pressures it creates. He does not really know the politicians whom he will need to help him run the country."

Was this portrait of Carter as a political innocent simply inaccurate or was it deliberately misleading? By December 25, 1976 - two weeks before the Time article appeared - Carter had already chosen his cabinet. Three of his cabinet members – Cyrus Vance, Michael Blumenthal, and Harold Brown - were Trilateral Commissioners; and the other non-Commission members were not unsympathetic to Commission objectives and operations. In addition, Carter had appointed another fourteen Trilateral Commissioners to top government posts, including:

        * C. Fred Bergsten (Under Secretary of Treasury)
        * James Schlesinger (Secretary of Energy)
        * Elliot Richardson (Delegate to Law of the Sea)
        * Leonard Woodcock (Chief envoy to China)
        * Andrew Young (Ambassador to the United Nations).

As of 25 December 1976, therefore, there were nineteen Trilaterals, including Carter and Mondale, holding tremendous political power. These presidential appointees represented almost one-third of the Trilateral Commission members from the United States. The odds of that happening "by chance" are beyond calculation!

con't below or go to link
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free


Sassy

con't from above

Realities of the New World Order

Barry GoldwaterIn 1972, Brzezinski's wrote that "nation-state as a fundamental unit of man's organized life has ceased to be the principal creative force: International banks and multinational corporations are acting and planning in terms that are far in advance of the political concepts of the nation-state."
The late Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) was one of a very few people who understood what Brzezinski was alluding to, when he issued a clear and precise warning in his 1979 book, With No Apologies:

    "The Trilateral Commission is international and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power – political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical."

Trilateral Entrenchment: 1980-2008

Every Administration since Carter has had top-level Trilateral Commission representation through the President or Vice-President, or both! George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Dick Cheney are all members.

In turn, these have appointed their Trilateral cronies to top positions in their Administrations.

For instance, six out of seven World Bank presidents have been members of the Commission. Eight out of ten USTR's (U.S. Trade Representative) have been members.

Secretaries of State include Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, Alexander Haig, George Schultz, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher and Madeleine Albright. Yep, all members of the Trilateral Commission.

Follow the money, follow the power

John McCainYou decide which is scarier: Obama and Brzezinski or McCain and Henry Kissinger?

Either way, Americans will continue to lose...

Every major crisis we face today is directly attributable to policies put forth and executed by members of this Trilateral Commission: Banking/lending/mortgage crisis, energy/gas price crisis, food/shortage/price crisis.

In addition, in the last fifteen to twenty years we have lost of millions of prime manufacturing jobs to China, India and Mexico. Our prime assets are being purchased by sovereign wealth funds and foreign investors. Our currency has all but been destroyed throughout the world.

Remember Brzezinski's vision that "international banks and multinational corporations are acting and planning in terms that are far in advance of the political concepts of the nation-state"?

Well, that's been true enough. But, for all their acting and planning at the expense of our own prosperity and Sovereignty, who wants or needs more of the same under Obama or McCain? With friends like this, who needs enemies?

For several Presidential elections now, this writer has voted according to the philosophy of voting for the "lesser of two evils." Never again!

A vote for either Obama or McCain is a vote for the complete destruction of America!

https://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/u.s._elections/obama_and_mccain%3a_pawns_of_the_global_elite?_2008080597/
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

ScottA


benevolance

i kind of thought carter was one of the only legit honest politicians in America... the guy is 80+ and he still works for unicef and amnesty and goes all over the world to help with elections ....He needs no money...

Pretty down to earth guy...He when home still goes to the same church he did as a kid...And meets with people afterwards and talks down to earth guy...

Opec forming and holding america for ransom with oil prices kind of sealed the deal on Carter...I would think that if the powers that be had hand selected Carter....They would not have allowed him to go through that....Considering they should or could hold sway all over the world....

After his term in office Carter has not tried to steal the show or spotlight...he just keeps on giving and helping people... He spent years in the middle east trying to get the Jews to live up to their word and to honour past peace accords...Maybe that was why he was thrown to the wolves... because he was not a fan of Israel committing genocide on the palestinians


Sassy

Carter seems like a nice guy personally, all the altruistic stuff he does, also, you didn't mention Habitat for Humanity...  I just think when he was placed in the position of president, he was very inexperienced & listened to a lot of people who espoused some unconstitutional things.  One world gov't sounds good on one level - why don't we all just get along; communism sounds good on a certain level - everyone share & help each other out - if you can't work, we'll help you out.  But humankind being what it is...  Our Republic, Bill of Rights, Constitution, Declaration of Independence are all great ideas/ideals but when a society degenerates to the level that a majority of our society has done, when no one really wants to do the work of public office except to see how much a person can milk it for, when people no longer have inner controls on their behavior - then it takes a more drastic type of gov't - I guess what we are seeing now of the police state which doesn't care who you are - everyone is a peon except for the masters & you must obey or else... 
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You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

desdawg

When Carter was President mortgage interest was in the 18% range. If I remember right that was about the time Reagon was trimming the fat in the California State Government budget and we were hoping he could accomplish something similar at the national level. You probably won't hear about Carter economics at the Democratic Convention.
After listening to Joe Biden tonight I think I like him better than McCain or Obama.
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.

Sassy

I'll have to read a bit more about Biden...  from what I've read so far, I wouldn't trust him - he's just another globalist - they all sound good when they have a script in front of them & they're promising you the world so that they'll get their own way... 

Just a bit more on what I posted earlier - has to do with our election & what is going on around the world...

Socialists made eugenics fashionable

Michael Coren, National Post  Published: Tuesday, June 17, 2008

An exhibition of the history of those scientific ideas that gave a grimy intellectual veneer to the Nazi genocide opened recently at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa. The collection centres on eugenics, the notion that humanity can be improved and perfected by selective breeding and the elimination of individuals and groups considered to be undesirable. Entitled Deadly Medicine: Creating the Master Race, it reveals how it was not thoughtless right-wing thugs as much as writers and scientists, the intellectual elite, who led the movement.

The exhibit is important, accurate but, regrettably, long overdue. It also fails to stress just how much the socialist left initiated and supported the eugenics campaign, not only in Germany but in Britain, the U. S. and the rest of Europe. Playwright George Bernard Shaw, English social democrat leader Sydney Webb and, in Canada, Tommy Douglas were just three influential socialists who called, for example, for the mass sterilization of the handicapped. In his Master's thesis The Problems of the Subnormal Family, the now revered Douglas argued that the mentally and even physically disabled should be sterilized and sent to camps so as not to "infect" the rest of the population.

It is deeply significant that few if any of Douglas's left-wing comrades in this country or internationally were surprised or offended by his proposals. Indeed the early fascism of 1920s Italy, while unsavoury and dictatorial, had little connection with social engineering and eugenics. The latter German version of fascism was influenced not by ultra conservatism in southern Europe but, as is made clear in the writings of the Nazi ideologues, by the Marxist left.

The most vociferous and outspoken of the socialist eugenicists was the novelist H. G. Wells, author of The Time Machine, The War of the Worlds and The Invisible Man. He argued in best-selling books such as Anticipations and A Modern Utopia that the world would collapse and from this collapse a new order should and would emerge.

"People throughout the world whose minds were adapted to the big-scale conditions of the new time. A naturally and informally organised educated class, an unprecedented sort of people." A strict social order would be formed. At the bottom of it were the base. These were "people who had given evidence of a strong anti-social disposition", including "the black, the brown, the swarthy, the yellow." Christians would also "have to go" as well as the handicapped. Wells devoted entire pamphlets to the need of "preventing the birth, preventing the procreation or preventing the existence" of the mentally and physically handicapped. "This thing, this euthanasia of the weak and the sensual is possible. I have little or no doubt that in the future it will be planned and achieved."

The people of Africa and Asia, he said, simply could never find a place in a modern world controlled by science. Better to do away with the lot. "I take it they will have to go" he said of them. Marriage as it is known would have to end but couples could form mutually agreed unions. They would list their "desires, diseases, needs" on little cards and a central authority would decide who was fitted for whom.

Population would be rigidly controlled, with forced abortion for those who were not of the right class and race. Religion would be banned, children would be raised in communes and all would be well. The old and the ill would, naturally, have to be done away with and doctors would be given the authority to decide who had a right to live, who had a duty to die.

In the United States socialist writer Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood and the mother of the abortion movement, called for a radical eugenics approach as early as the first years of the 20th century. She wrote of the need for "a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring. It is a vicious cycle; ignorance breeds poverty and poverty breeds ignorance. There is only one cure for both, and that is to stop breeding these things. Stop bringing to birth children whose inheritance cannot be one of health or intelligence. Stop bringing into the world children whose parents cannot provide for them. Herein lies the key of civilization."

The key of civilization. Unlocking the doors of a hell once unimaginable but now, after the Holocaust, the Ukrainian genocide, Pol Pot and Mao's mass slaughter, entirely within the grasp of contemporary sensibilities. History is often clouded by fashion and the whims of the victorious. Because some of the most pernicious intellectual criminals of the past century wore red they have escaped condemnation. It is time for the clouds to clear and the fashions to change.


http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=592291
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

desdawg

I don't know much about Biden either. He made some sense during his speech. Rather it was just a tell em what they want to hear speech I can't say. As I was typing that I was pretty sure someone would google about 50 reasons to not like the guy. Happens every time. Hope springs eternal that someday we will have a candidate that actually stands for something. He had the courage to stand up and call McCain a friend and then state everything he thought was wrong with McCain's politics. His mantra was that's not change that's more of the same (as we have had for the last eight years). Bill Clinton said the Republican's want the last 8 years performance rewarded by giving them 4 more years. It all hit home for me. Given where we are at today that makes for a pretty good pitch. It will be interesting to see who McCain annouces for a running mate. Like I said somewhere else neither Presidential candidate may survive 4 years in office. So we may actually be voting for the VP's.
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.


MountainDon

Quote from: desdawg on August 27, 2008, 11:13:03 PM
When Carter was President mortgage interest was in the 18% range. .......You probably won't hear about Carter economics at the Democratic Convention.

The only thing good about those years were if you did not have a mortgage, but had cash you simply wanted to park someplace real safe like a CD. I was still in Canada at the time, living in a rented warehouse space with my race car, but with savings towards a house. I believe I had it all in 14 to 15 % CD's. 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Sassy

I was a new accts rep at a bank in Washington at the time...  we had a contest one year to bring in new accts or have people change from lower interest, short term CD's to longer term, higher interest CD's - it was very easy to convince people to change to longer term - I made a lot of points towards items I could select from a catalog - freezer, dishes, dishwasher, rocking chair among other things...  the rules were pretty loose - one employee who was asst operations, sent letters out to everyone - after a couple months they tightened up the rules as I'm sure it was costing the bank a lot of money. 

I worked at Rainier Bank (since has merged with other banks)  I remember when they had open house at their new building in Seattle - the one built on a pedestal...  all employees were invited to an all expenses paid weekend in Seattle & tours of the building.  I remember the opulence of the offices, hallways etc.  Antique oriental rugs, priceless art & artifacts, expensive furniture, fancy dining room where they served us a gourmet lunch...  I wasn't complaining - pretty poor at the time & this was nice...  just think of all the perks the higher ups & their friends in the banking systems are enjoying...  (little bit of off topic)
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You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

glenn kangiser

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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MountainDon

I don't think anyone's ready to be president until they've been parents of teenagers. And survived.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

desdawg

Quote from: MountainDon on August 28, 2008, 09:57:17 AM
Quote from: desdawg on August 27, 2008, 11:13:03 PM
When Carter was President mortgage interest was in the 18% range. .......You probably won't hear about Carter economics at the Democratic Convention.

The only thing good about those years were if you did not have a mortgage, but had cash you simply wanted to park someplace real safe like a CD. I was still in Canada at the time, living in a rented warehouse space with my race car, but with savings towards a house. I believe I had it all in 14 to 15 % CD's. 
For every cloud there is a silver lining, huh Don. Today you are lucky to break out above 4% unless you tie your funds up for 18 months or so. I can't bring myself to do that in these uncertain times.
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.


Sassy

And None Dare Call It Treason—McCain Advisor's Georgia Connection

By Patrick J. Buchanan

Who is Randy Scheunemann?

He is the principal foreign policy adviser to John McCain and potential successor to Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski as national security adviser to the president of the United States.

But Randy Scheunemann has another identity, another role.

He is a dual loyalist, a foreign agent whose assignment is to get America committed to spilling the blood of her sons for client regimes who have made this moral mercenary a rich man.

From January 2007 to March 2008, the McCain campaign paid Scheunemann $70,000—pocket change compared to the $290,000 his Orion Strategies banked in those same 15 months from the Georgian regime of Mikheil Saakashvili.

What were Mikheil's marching orders to Tbilisi's man in Washington? Get Georgia a NATO war guarantee. Get America committed to fight Russia, if necessary, on behalf of Georgia.

Scheunemann came close to succeeding.

Had he done so, U.S. soldiers and Marines from Idaho and West Virginia would be killing Russians in the Caucasus, and dying to protect Scheunemann's client, who launched this idiotic war the night of Aug. 7. That people like Scheunemann hire themselves out to put American lives on the line for their clients is a classic corruption of American democracy.

U.S. backing for his campaign to retrieve his lost provinces is what Saakashvili paid Scheunemann to produce. But why should Americans fight Russians to force 70,000 South Ossetians back into the custody of a regime they detest? Why not let the South Ossetians decide their own future in free elections?

Not only is the folly of the Bush interventionist policy on display in the Caucasus, so, too, is its manifest incoherence.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates says we have sought for 45 years to stay out of a shooting war with Russia and we are not going to get into one now. President Bush assured us there will be no U.S. military response to the Russian move into Georgia.

That is a recognition of, and a bowing to, reality—namely, that Russia's control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and occupation of a strip of Georgia cannot be a casus belli for the United States. We may deplore it, but it cannot justify war with Russia.

If that be true, and it transparently is, what are McCain, Barack Obama, Bush, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel doing committing the United States and Germany to bringing Georgia into NATO? For that would commit us to war for a cause we have already conceded, by our paralysis, does not justify a war.

Not only did Scheunemann's two-man lobbying firm receive $730,000 since 2001 to get Georgia a NATO war guarantee, he was paid by Romania and Latvia to do the same. And he succeeded.

Latvia, a tiny Baltic republic annexed by Joseph Stalin in June 1940 during his pact with Adolf Hitler, was set free at the end of the Cold War. Yet hundreds of thousands of Russians had been moved into Latvia by Stalin, and as Riga served as a base of the Baltic Sea fleet, many Russian naval officers retired there.

The children and grandchildren of these Russians are Latvian citizens. They are a cause of constant tension with ethnic Letts and of strife with Moscow, which has assumed the role of protector of Russians left behind in the "near abroad" when the Soviet Union broke apart.

Thanks to the lobbying of Scheunemann and friends, Latvia has been brought into NATO and given a U.S. war guarantee. If Russia intervenes to halt some nasty ethnic violence in Riga, the United States is committed to come in and drive the Russians out.

This is the situation in which the interventionists have placed our country: committed to go to war for countries and causes that do not justify war, against a Russia that is re-emerging as a great power only to find NATO squatting on her doorstep.

Scheunemann's resume as a War Party apparatchik is lengthy. He signed the PNAC (Project for the New American Century) letter to President Clinton urging war on Iraq, four years before 9-11. He signed the PNAC ultimatum to Bush, nine days after 9-11, threatening him with political reprisal if he did not go to war against Iraq. He was executive director of the "Committee for the Liberation of Iraq," a propaganda front for Ahmad Chalabi and his pack of liars who deceived us into war.

Now Scheunemann is the neocon agent in place in McCain's camp.

The neocons got their war with Iraq. They are pushing for war on Iran. And they are now baiting the Russian Bear.

Is this what McCain has on offer? Endless war?

Why would McCain seek foreign policy counsel from the same discredited crowd that has all but destroyed the presidency of George Bush?

"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence ... a free people ought to be constantly awake," Washington warned in his Farewell Address. Our Founding Father was warning against the Randy Scheunemanns among us, agents hired by foreign powers to deceive Americans into fighting their wars. And none dare call it treason.
   http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=94460
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

apaknad

sassy... is this the same pat buchanan that is now a tv analyst who always sticks up for the rep. party? that article does not bode well for the future if true. :-[
unless we recognize who's really in charge, things aren't going to get better.

Sassy

I wouldn't say Patrick J Buchanan is in support of the republican party much anymore, although he was going to be John McCain's running mate in 2000 - he thrashes the republicans & the far conservative right & neo-cons... I was pleasantly surprised when I started reading some of his articles...  he writes a syndicated column - I used to think he was just another shill politician...

here's some books he's written among others

State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion ... - 2006 - 332 pages
Where The Right Went Wrong: How ... - 2005 - 292 pages
A Republic Not an Empire: Reclaiming America's ... - 1999 - 464 pages
books.google.com - More book results »
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

glenn kangiser

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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sparks

I've started looking for dirt. Here's the ground breaking shovel load.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/05/obamas-acorn/

To be fair, I believe the Keating five might ring a bell with a few folks.
My vessel is so small....the seas so vast......

desdawg

Looks like the candidates have been upstaged by Ike, Fannie and Freddie and Lehman Brothers. If they want some attention they may have to get in the middle of one of those issues.
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.


glenn kangiser

How can they take a fine upstanding indigenous food like the ACORN and drag it's name through the dirt by associating it with politics? hmm
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Mad Dog

What the hell is social justice?  How about, get off your ass, and get a job. >:(
I refuse to tiptoe through life, only to arrive safely at death.

glenn kangiser

I guess they are both more of the war party.  My daughter just recommended this to me as a reminder of what is going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRR_n_yQGA  War Pigs set to current events - not too old.

I hate to see business as usual but it looks like it will continue no matter who it is.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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ScottA

Good video Glenn. I hate to say it but you're right. It will go on.

glenn kangiser

It is and has pretty much always been one of the motivations for war - oil, greed, power and control of the people by fabricated bogeymen and fear. 

It's too dangerous for you to have your freedom...give it to us and we'll take care of you....as they continue to create an environment that insures their continued power and profit.

Freedom is gone as we voluntarily imprison ourselves to prevent going through the possible TSA hassles assured by international travel.  Besides the fact that all of our decent jobs have been outsourced to maximize profits.  They have not fully thought all of this out as the US financial and housing markets take the bite for their ill conceived profit taking.

More of the same to come, but how much more will the system stand.  It's already on life support.   Anybody seen the advance directives? hmm
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.