You have to wonder.....

desdawg · May 13, 2008, 10:18:55 AM

You have to wonder what is going to happen this summer when all the people who are bleeding at the pump realize that if they reach across the dash and turn on their AC they will cut their mileage and increase their fuel consumption even more. I suppose we will see more things like this:
http://www.efuel100.com/default.aspx
Our reliance on fossil fuels is about to hit us hard where it really hurts. And it comes at a time when we can least afford it.

muldoon · May 13, 2008, 11:00:51 AM

what I wonder is where is the tipping point? people claimed it was 100 dollar oil, which we zoomed by. people claimed it was 120, which were zooming by. now theres talk of 180-200 later this year... but people still have to work, kids still need to go to school, families still need trips to grocery stores, at what point do these stop? And if so, will we see wage increases to match and get people coming back? monthly gov stimulous checks direct deposited automatically? the japanese muddle-through seems very possible right now, we are the proverbial frog in boiling water that will sit there forever as long as the changes are incremental enough.

May 13, 2008, 03:09:24 PM

Somehow we will muddle through. Gas prices are all over the map. I think the price in Venezuela is about 12¢ per gallon where as the Dutch pay $6.48. Anyone want to carpool down to see Hugo Chavez?

$6 for a gallon of gas (or a loaf of bread) will be painful but few will starve. Americans are already starting to change their lifestyles. More to come I expect.

The American consumer lifestyle is like an ocean liner... slow to change direction. However, that works on both sides of the equation. My grandmother, who raised two kids in the dust bowl years on a dirt farm in South Dakota, saved string and never spent an unnecessary dollar up to the end of her frugal (but long) life. My grandfather (a carpenter) built birdhouses for Christmas presents. But his wife wouldn't let him buy any lumber and he would bring home cutoffs from the job site and straighten nails he had salvaged. This was in the 60's when younger folks were learning how to use a Visa card and buy a new car on credit.

peternap · May 13, 2008, 03:22:20 PM

Quote from: John Raabe on May 13, 2008, 03:09:24 PM
Somehow we will muddle through. Gas prices are all over the map. I think the price in Venezuela is about 12¢ per gallon where as the Dutch pay $6.48

$6 for a gallon of gas (or a loaf of bread) will be painful but few will starve. Americans are already starting to change their lifestyles. More to come I expect.

Some are changing John. I still see the same old lifestyle from the majority though. My truck has been parked for a week now even though I have hundreds of gallons of diesel socked away. Neighbors are still driving their trucks a quarter mile to pick up the kids at the bus stop.

My wife and I have been driving our 100+ MPG Whizzers while her relatives are driving their SUV's.

My wife has left her Landrover parked and done the shopping in our 40 MPG Focus.

I planted a garden while everyone else around here had the lawn service fertilize their grass.

I bought a steer from a neighbor at the farm. My wifes brother in law bought a boat (big boat).

I'm just not seeing a lot of realization yet! I do agree that not a lot of people will starve...yet. The ones that do will be the ones that are least able to control their spending. The elderly and the very poor.

John Raabe · May 13, 2008, 03:26:20 PM

Being ahead of the curve you will likely be a silent role model for many of your neighbors. Maybe the same ones who thought you were a little strange only a few months ago.

May 13, 2008, 03:27:34 PM

I'm lucky enough to have two incomes in my household, and I find that the cost of fuel is causing us some issues. We have already modified our driving and spending habits, and I suspect we will continue to be more conservative. We don't eat out as often, nor do we take unnecessary trips in to town. I find myself driving the 4Runner more, and my F250 less.

We are more frugal when shopping, and are buying in bulk. I'm still surprised at the amount of folks on the highway. I wonder how many of them are swimming in debt and ignoring the conditions.

-f-

MountainDon · May 13, 2008, 08:27:12 PM

Hmmm.

On my recent trip, 785 miles total, I set the cruise control to 55 MPH and took an extra hour to get there and an extra hour to get back. It was difficult for me to do that, but I simply kept reminding myself there was no rush. I was still the first one to arrive at the appointed meeting/camping site; My Jeep averages 9% better mileage at 55 on the highway instead of at 65. (I did a test a number of years ago. I continued to drive 65 - 70 as it didn't seem too bad a trade off back then.) At todays gas prices it does make a difference in expenditure.

Cruise control use saves fuel especially for me with a wanton tendency to go faster and faster.

As for the A/C use; it Depends.

If you are cruising on the highway you are better off with the windows up and the A/C on instead of having windows open. That has been tested. However, if you're situation is city, slower speed, stop and go, it's another story. Using the recirculate setting saves gas.

I also turn the engine off whenever I think I might be stationary for a minute or more. An idling engine gets Zero MPG. Super hot weather excepted more often than not though. Contrary to the belief of some, it does not use extra fuel to get a warm, modern engine started. People who believe that probably believe that fuel with an octane rating higher than the manufacturers recommendation is better as well. Is not.

What amazes me are the number of folks who still drive with a heavy foot on the gas to start up and then rush up to the next stop and lean heavily on the brakes. I'm usually one of the slower starters at traffic signals, stop signs and the like. I also lift my foot off the gas the moment I see an approaching light turn amber, unless it's one I'm familiar with and know it's a short cycle light.

Everyone should take a drive in a vehicle equipped with an instantaneous fuel use computer. Maybe that would help some folks realize the amount they waste with the heavy right foot. Maybe not.

Every extra pound you carry in the car/truck costs extra to get moving. It all adds up. Ditto roof racks and roof loads. I wish I could get everything inside the Jeep, but I don't like the thought of spare gas cans inside. And the firewood gets things messy unless I was to debark it.

I have used synthetic oils for over 20 years. I think I bought the first quart of Mobil One sold in Canada. Back then it was for it's excellent cold weather starting. It is more efficient at lubricating; parts move more freely, less friction. Don't use oil that's heavier than recommended or necessary.

peternap · May 13, 2008, 09:16:01 PM

I agree 100% with almost everything you said Don.
On anything my wife doesn't have a say in (My truck right now) I take the AC off. No sense in spinnng something I won't use. I've never owned anything that used the compressor for heat although some do.

I normally don't use cruise control because I like to keep constant and even pressure on the accelerator. Going down hills I gain speed and coming up the next one I lose it but haven;t changed the amount of fuel used.

I don't think things behind the vehicle cause any drag (as in spare tire or gas cans) the slipstream misses them altogether. Roof racks are a real killer though.

Every vehicle has it's own personality and you need to get to know it. It's not surprising that you know your Jeep inside and out.

MountainDon · May 13, 2008, 11:09:27 PM

Yep, Peter, the stuff behind has little if any effect on the wind drag, the weight still counts though.

The only vehicle I ever did away with the A/C was an old Jeep and that was to enable the old twin piston compressor to be used for pumping air for re-inflating let down tires. We have guys in the club who have both a compressor for air pumping and one for he A/C on their Jeeps. Things get a little busy under the hood.

I could not live and travel here in the SW for parts of the year without A/C. Not without discomfort.

I used the A/C for a couple hours each day on the trail on this last trip.

I will admit to over-riding the cruise at times on hills, same as I over-ride the transmission computer at times in rolling hills, variable grades, etc. It wants to hunt, lock and unlock the converter, etc. I have manual selections and lockins for all the gears as well as converter locking.

May 13, 2008, 11:23:43 PM

I have purposefully unplugged the lock up convertor in many of my vehicles...I hate those damned things

glenn kangiser · May 13, 2008, 11:31:23 PM

Lockup is good - extra mileage -- if manual, added braking on hills and locked, the trans runs a 100f or more degrees cooler on mild grades to heavy pulls. It is the only way to run with an exhaust brake. I need to hook up a manual switch on mine and maybe even try to make my own brake -- or break loose with a $1000 for a real one.

MountainDon · May 13, 2008, 11:50:13 PM

What have you against lockup converters, Peter?

Where it drives me nuts is when the load, the grade, the speed all conspire to where it's releasing for a short time, then locking again, etc. etc. Sometimes gear changing gets involved too. That's when I usually take manual action.

I got a copy of the AW4 transmission manual. It has a nice explanation of what solenoid valve does what. They each have a couple positions. In one combination you get 1st, another = 2nd and so on. The lockup is controlled by another solenoid. Once you find the right wires it's a matter of connecting switches and deciding where to mount them.

You have to remember when you are messing with them and not forget to unlock it when you are going to stop for instance.

It's actually easy enough to remember because when you mess with the computer this way it decides something has gone badly wrong and the "check engine" light comes on. When you return control to "Hal"

it usually takes a couple engine stop and restart cycles for it to decide everything is copacetic again.

Having a normal running locking converter in normal everyday driving does good things for mileage. I don't think there's any argument about that. If the trans oil temp goes down when the converter is locked you know that means higher efficiency. Cooler oil = longer life. My trans oil is still pink after 81,000 miles. A have a Big auxiliary oil cooler installed. (...and a small one on the power steering system.)

glenn kangiser · May 14, 2008, 12:04:13 AM

I learned about the cooling when I put a gauge on mine.

On the dodge trucks when the hunting starts on the lockup, it means that the APPS has lost its memory - sometimes caused by dirty batt. cables. You need to unhook all batts for about 15 minutes then hook them up - turn on the key without starting - push the pedal slowly all the way to the floor then slowly release - turn off the key then run as normal. Shifting and lockup is usually better for quite a while.

That resets the APPS.

benevolance · May 14, 2008, 12:05:22 AM

what I have against them is General motors terrible sensors that almost always malfunction and cause the lock up to fail and to make the truck drive like a bucking bronco

I am a firm believer in trans coolers... worth their weight in gold...I also love changing the fluid and filter... the saturn trans fluid filter isa stroke of pure genius...I have had 4 saturns in the last 2 years and it is so easy to screw off the old trans fluid filter and put another one on... easier than changing the oil.. I think all vehicles should have filters just like it... make it mandatory

I have currently a 1991 chevrolet 3/4 ton pick up I bought that has a brand new transmission in it and the lock up is acting up..So I had to unplug the damned thing...I have done this on half a dozen of these trucks... It shifts perfect with the lock up unplugged... plugged in it shakes and chudders and acts all haywire...

May 14, 2008, 12:09:40 AM

T/C clutch may be out. Usually when that happens the fluid gets burned if it does it for any time. The front of the converter may turn blue from heat.

benevolance · May 14, 2008, 12:16:37 AM

fluid is pink and smells sweet...

I only bought the truck a couple weeks ago... it works amazing except for the lock up... but the trans is new and the convertor is a rebuild... 2 months old... If I thought a new Torque convertor would fix it I would put it on the lift at the shop pull the trans and install another rebuilt convertor

glenn kangiser · May 14, 2008, 12:19:41 AM

Probably not if it's that new. Maybe you can find something on a forum. I am only familiar with the diesel one but there seem to be forums for everything.

benevolance · May 14, 2008, 12:27:51 AM

glenn

I have no faith in anything anymore... transmission shops use parts out of used transmissions in their rebuilds and they all do it...And with torque convertors they use the cheap dick type clutches that glue on...Saves a little money and time... but it is pure junk...

a friend of mine used to have a torque convertor shop back in Canada I saw just how cheap and poorly most convertors are rebuilt

glenn kangiser · May 14, 2008, 12:44:11 AM

I bought a high dollar DTT one for my diesel so know its good.

MountainDon · May 14, 2008, 12:49:36 AM

Well, I have never owned a GM vehicle so I guess I have avoided that TC problem. I've never had an AT give me grief with mechanical problems.

May 14, 2008, 12:52:20 AM

Don it is only the lock up that gives problems in the Gm pick ups for the most part... and concerning torque convertors... all of them are junk if they are rebuilt cheaply with inferior clutches.... This is not a problem that is GM specific...

I have replaced transmissions in Hondas Toyotas because the torque convertor was junk... and it was due to being rebuilt poorly

MountainDon · May 14, 2008, 01:15:17 AM

OK, agreed.

The thing that most folks don't realize is that IF they'd do maintenance the AT could easily last the life of the vehicle. One of my wheeling friends had a Cherokee XJ with 255000 miles on the engine and AT and it was running okay when he sold it off as junk. It had so many hard 4r wheeling miles on it the sheet metal areas in the suspension connection points was worn out. He removed the superior axles and t-case that had been upgraded over the years and the rest went to the junk man.

benevolance · May 14, 2008, 01:36:00 AM

i agree

my father had many vehicles with 400,000 on them and the trans worked like the day it was new

glenn kangiser · May 14, 2008, 11:25:04 AM

My AT was still fine but the Factory T/C was junk as regards to heavy usage with a slightly modified diesel. It would be fine probably for the wife to carry groceries in. If I had allowed the T/C to go longer as the clutch was flying apart, it would have destroyed the transmission. I also put in a Suncoast valve body which raises pressures and improves holding power to take the higher HP and prevent tearing the new T/C apart.

Most manufacturers go to great lengths to see to it that their transmissions are not built excessively strong. When I found out that GM had put plastic parts in their transmission because the previous brass ones (available on rebuild) were lasting too long, I quit buying GM. Likely not just GM, but they got me so they had to die.

akemt · May 14, 2008, 12:00:03 PM

With the electricity crisis going on here right now (and $4.00 a gallon gas), we've had all kinds of changes. Though, not necessarily ones I like. Because we're living in a rental (moving the end of the month!) thanks to our house not having sold yet, we don't have a wood stove or other things that would help out. One change is that it is now cheaper to eat out than cook, and to buy things (bread) from the store instead of making it yourself. Miss that one...and the home-cooked tortillas. Just can't afford the electric oven/range to be on that much at 5X the cost now. Lovely, lovely! Just about two-three weeks and we'll be in "normal" costing Alaska instead of crazy Juneau with all it's bureaucracy.

Our lifestyle has changed a great deal. Part of that is natural as we've added more young children to our family...I don't feel the need to troup all over town trying to keep them all in line, etc. We go to the grociery store (well-planned so it only happens once a week or so) and to church, sometimes to friends' houses, and dh goes to work. That's it. I too have friends that drive 1/4 mile to pick kids up from the bus stop.