Canadians Conclude Americans Largely Silent as Their Nation is Systematically De

[Sassy]

Good over all article - just a reminder that we aren't out of the financial chaos yet - always a good idea to get things in order as much as possible & to hold our supposed "representatives" in the gov't & the criminal Federal Reserve & all those in power in the financial world, who are pulling off this heist of freedom, accountable for criminal behavior, take away their assets & bonuses & perks & use it towards repaying those who have lost their retirements, jobs, etc.  (how's that for a run-on sentence)?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/28/Canadians-Conclude-Americans-Largely-Silent-as-Their-Nation-is-Systematically-Destroyed.aspx

[pagan]

Just read the latest "fix" is to give mortgage companies cash to offset lost revenues from restructuring loans. So now a mortgage company that knowingly and willingly lent money to someone it knew could not afford the mortgage will get paid cash from the government to cover its losses as it restructures the loan.

Personally I know many people who are furious over this, but we do not have the power to arrest, try, and incarcerate anybody. Have you talked to your elected "leaders" about this? I have, and they smiled pleasantly as I talked to them  and I quickly figured out they were running over their "to-do" list and what I was talking about wasn't even registering.

[Sassy]

That's the feeling I get when I call or write...    seems like they all have their own agendas & it's not for their constituents!   

[ScottA]

I don't see where they get the idea Americans are silent about this. Everyone I know is complaining about it but no one knows what to do. It's like our hands are tied so to speak. I would say the mood is one of disgust and helpless. Most people I talk to are done trying to talk to this government.

[pagan]

Consider this; about 138 million people in this country have jobs. For ease we'll call it 200 million. If the size of the government bail out is now at $8.7 trillion, round down to $8 trillion for simplicity, our government could have given each person of that 200 million population roughly $43,500. If we take the numbers at face value it would be around $63,000 each. Instead we get clear proof of who our government serves by where they're spending our descendant's money.

[Squirl]

I don't see were the 8.7 Trillion comes from.  The federal government has had a fiscal budget of 2.5 trillion for the past few years.  The new Obama federal budget is 3.4 trillion or around a 35% increase.  Include in that the original 700 billion bank bailout and the 200 billion AIG bailout.  Lets add another 500 billion for whatever I missed.  That still is only .9 + .9  + .5 = 2.3 trillion additional spending this year.  If you use your example of 200 million working adults that is around $10,000 per person.  If we do not have another trillion dollar bank bail out for next year that drops to half.
  I also disagree that it is all money down a tube.  I disagree with spending tax dollars on mortgage bonds, but even if they pay 100 cents on the dollar for these assets, they are not worthless.  Even if half of all mortgage holders in the U.S. default and their houses were destroyed and worthless.  The value would still only drop to 50 cents on the dollar. 

I have been trying to watch the new carefully, if I am missing some figures, let me know.

   

[Squirl]

Doing some research I found a number around 8.7 trillion.  Public federal debt prior to 2009 was 6.5 trillion with the projections of the extra 2.2 trillion this year bring you to 8.7.  Was this what you were referring to?

[pagan]

The $8.7 trillion comes from the article and includes cash, tax breaks, and loan guarantees made to various corporations and banks. And of course money loaned and promised through the Federal Reserve is not included in the budget. What I am saying is we're all on the hook for this massive debt and if the goal is to spur economic growth through spending, rather than giving billions to huge corporations and banks which created the mess, give each American $50,000 to $60,000 which is equal to what's been promised by our government. If 200 million people each got $50,000 you'd see some spending pretty damn quickly.

[Squirl]

Yeah.  I read the article.  It cites to an article by AAPS blaming the Obama administration, that cites back to the same figures in a 2008 Politico article blaming the bush administration.  Not a singe citation was given as to were there numbers came from.  The 8.7 trillion figure is bunk.  5 trillion of it is made up of lower lending requirements of the Federal Reserve.  If you read through the politico article only a small portion of that has even been spent or guaranteed.  The 1.5 Trillion in FDIC Guarantee was when they changed the 100,000 per account limit to 250,000.  Nothing was actually spent and this was half of the 2.9 million that was spent or guaranteed at the time of the article.  Non of which matters if they don't let the banks fail.  The politico article gives no reference as to where it's figures came from either. Also 1.8 trillion of the figure is tax breaks, so they are just not taking the money in the first place.

[Squirl]

Sorry I read back through what I had written and it doesn't read well.  I am frustrated at these poor articles.  No citations and made up numbers.  The giving money to every person couldn't apply here because the figures used in the article are jumbled together.  They are comparing apple to oranges and over simplifying it.  The debt is not actual debt but insurance.  The only way the government pays out is if the entire financial world collapses and everything is worthless.  If that happened we would be screwed anyway.

[pagan]

When Bush was touting his economic stimulus plan the Republicans were all for it and the Democrats called it another hand out to the wealthy. Now the roles are reversed. Who's to blame? Personally I blame every politician, regulator, CEO, investment banker and broker, just to name a few responsible professions. Greenspan knew what was going on and did nothing. I remember seeing him testifying back in the mid to late nineties saying there was copious fraud in the housing valuation market, but he didn't think it was worth pursuing legally. It's always a pleasure to see him claim he's not responsible for anything. I worked at an investment bank and heard the bankers talking about the idiots buying all of the worthless paper they were peddling around the world.

I know not all of the money has been spent, in fact a small portion of it has been spent so far, but that doesn't stop the politicians from promising more. I think some of the $8.7 trillion amount is based on the high risk debt banks have on their books in the form of risky mortgages and what the American people may be responsible for if all of that debt goes completely under. True enough, much of these numbers are based on government guarantees, unfortunately as banks work to clear their books of the risky debt Freddy and Fannie will take on more and more and that's where the problem lies because we will be covering those losses.

I stand by my statement that if spending is the path politicians are taking for economic recovering then the money should be allocated to those most likely to spend it; the working people. Right now most people are tapped out on how much debt they have, so how are they going to increase spending if they don't have any money? Give Tom Cruise $50,000 and what do you think he'll do with it? Tuck it in the bank is my bet. Give that same $50,000 to someone earning $25,000 per year before taxes and that person will promptly spend the money. Now imagine 200 million people spending that much money.

[Sassy]

I didn't post that article to point a finger at the republicans or democrats - they're all equally criminal - didn't realize it had been posted on Politico in the past - what caught my eye was basically what I see in my everyday encounters with coworkers, acquaintances etc.  Most will grumble but go on their merry ways.

Scott mentioned that people don't know what to do anymore & that's true too - short of a revolution, I don't know, either, cuz the criminal politicians & international bankers/movers & shakers don't care what we think.

Here's an article in Bloomberg written 11/24/08 (before Obama so nobody get on the defense) about $7.7 trillion pledged in bailouts
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=an3k2rZMNgDw&refer=home ;  and I'm sure it's a lot more than that by now