14X24 VDM Quebec

[whit]

Hi All,

This is the start of my project for a 14 X 24 cottage in Val Des Monts, Quebec. This promises likely to be a thread that will span a few years as I need to gather resources and jump through a bunch of municipal rules and regulation hoops before I can get going. I am happy to say that as of April 1, 2011, I am the official owner of a 1 acre lot next to a lake.

[whit]

With legal deed in hand, my first order of business would be trying to determine where exactly the lot lines are. This is was not going to be an easy task considering the lot was surveyed 40 years ago but there is a cottage on either side so at least I have that to go by. I also had to wait for the snow to melt . I was given some information by the owner I bought the land from. He told me that a hydro road went across the property and that the first hydro pole was roughly the middle of the lot. I went up on March 27th and took these pics.

[whit]

After spending a few weeks contacting land surveyors, sending away for land registration documents and waiting for snow to melt, I went up again a few weeks later in April with the intention of trying to find some markers, pins, anything. After trecking around for about an hour, I located a pin near the road... BINGO!! Well, maybe not. A nice gentleman a few doors down explained that the pin I found was for the lot across the road 

As it turns out, this so called hydro road, used to be the actual road and as he explained, it went right through where his gallery now stands. I went home a little dejected, I knew it wasn't going to be easy.

So with this new information  I did some more research and went on line to the the municipalities web site where they have the lots on line showing there dimensions and tax roll number. I found my lot and the larger view of the area and little did I know, there was an aerial view that could be toggled on and off and with this view turned on I was able to understand what the neighbor was saying about the road. The on line survey shows the old road and not the new one. It's amazing the technology we have at our fingertips.

[cbc58]

that almost looks like your lot does not abut the existing road and that you are technically accessing it over someone elses property...   just by what the map/arial shows.

probably a non-issue after so many years.   

[whit]

So now that I knew the old road was marked on the survey, there was a pin that was recently marked for a property which crossed the new road and having received the land registration survey which was dated May 1975, I knew that 50 ft from where this new re-bar pin was located, would be the corner of my lot.

Being highly motivated to save myself $1500 - $2000 in getting a surveyor to re-pin the lot, I went up yesterday and looked for pins again. I was told by the original surveyor that the pins may be gone, corroded or whatever. So I bought myself a 200ft tape for $14.99, set the tape on the pin across from my lot and then crawled up a steep ravine to where I thought the corner of my property was. The corner at fifty-five feet is exactly where the second hydro pole is located and low and behold, right behind the pole is a re-bar pin. YESSS!! Well life is never that simple. The re-bar pin I found has a thick grounding wire attached to it and that wire runs right up the pole. So either I have found the pin or hydro replaced the original pin with theirs or they welded the wire onto the pin or this is not the pin

Either way, because I have 150 feet of frontage and I must be 15 feet away from either cottage, I am making the pin I found the marker of the corner of my lot. I measured 75 feet from the pin and placed a make shift wooden stake and then marked the tree's down the middle of the property all the way to the back. My next project is cutting down tree's and putting in a road. I am thinking about 20 feet wide by 100 feet long.

[whit]

Yes cbc58, there could be issues with the property and the road but the original property was surveyed against the old road so this is my point of reference. The poor guy across the new road has it running right through his property. This is why I guess he had it surveyed to see where his property was. The property lines seem to be very much understood as, 200 feet from the white oak tree and back to where the two boulders meet is the edge of the property line. That's OK but that's not how the municipality is taxing it.  

[cbc58]

often times surveyors will take a hatchet and mark the nearest tree with 3 cuts to signify an approximate corner... they may also do one cut on a tree for an appox boundary line.  fyi.

[whit]

Now for a few questions  

The municipality is requesting that I put in a septic system and a well. The septic can only be a holding tank as they don't allow septic beds but I was thinking of a waterless toilette instead. Anybody have one of these?

As for a well, my property drops off at the back about twenty feet (see pic below). I estimate that I have about 25 feet from the drop off point to a trail which is owned by someone else. Just past the trail is a running stream which is fed from the lake and which feeds off to a river about 5 miles away.

My question is, how hard would it be to dig a well by hand? Is it even possible?

My first thought is that it would be much easier to hit water at the back than at the top of the property however, there is no way I would ever get a drill back there unless it was a two man held drill. I'm not sure how far I would have to go.

My second thought is just dropping some black pipe into the stream and pumping it up the hill to a holding tank. We do this at another cottage I belong to but the pipe is dropped into a lake. A running stream may be a different story all together?

[rick91351]

Whit be very careful if using Sat-maps with survey overlays.  They will may get you in the neighborhood perhaps.  We went to get a building permit last year and they wanted to know what a building was that was on our property.  It is the neighbors hay shed.  It is a little over the line and not a real problem until county picks up on it.  In fact the sat-survey shows the property line laying 100 feet east of that location.  We were forced to get a new survey, that needed to be done anyway.  So I was not too up set only the money.  It gave me much pleasure to walk in and show them their high dollar state of the art service they subscribe to is no where like being on the ground.  We hired a surveyor that sure filled my ear full with sat-surveying and how they are ripping people, towns and states off.  It certainly does not make his job any easier, when the sat photo shows this and the pins are really and legally here.

Looks very nice around there.  More pictures as the snow makes its retreat!!               

[whit]

Hey Rick thanks for the info. I think I will eventually need a survey done when I start building. I'm just trying to save a few bucks and ball park for now where I can start cutting down some tree's and putting in a road. So long as I am 15 feet from either cottage I am ok. But you're right, I won't trust the satellite shot. I just don't know how a surveyor walks up to a piece of land and says OK, this is the corner of the lot. They must have some bearing point, latitude, longitude or some point where they start measuring from.

[bayview]

   i'm sure the pin you found with the grounding lug is not a surveyors pin. . .    Just a ground for the pole.

   How far away is your neighbor?   Even if he is a couple of lots away, you could pull off one of his known pins. . .

   Personally I wouldn't leave it to chance . . .   

   Prices are quite different here in the States.   I had our two lots (one acre in Texas) re-surveyed for $275.00

/.

[Texas Tornado]

Can't you find it with a high powered magnet? Or a metal detector?

[IronPatriotTN]

$300 for a survey will save you headaches down the road. Your places isn't acres where you can "kind'a guess" where the center is.
If you build without a LEGAL land survey on a small lot, you are rolling the dice.
Be careful. 

[whit]

Ya the prices up here are a little crazy. I've had three quotes in the $1200 - $1500 range.

I have a bad feeling that when this whole area was surveyed in 1975, they may not have pinned every single lot. There were at least 50 to 75 1 acre lots surveyed by one surveying company. They could have used anything, wooden stakes which would be long gone by now.

My only sure thing right now is the pin across the road from the corner of my lot. According to the survey (of the entire area), there is fifty feet between the two lot corners.

I kinda thought that stake in the ground was a ground for the hydro pole, so there goes that idea.

Thanks for all the great tips. I know I want to be safer than sorry.

Maybe I'll keep trying to get some more survey estimates.

[rick91351]

Here in Idaho you can go to the county seat.  There on file is a copy of survey, they are filed by the surveyors.  Might you should have something there such as that.  Here anyone can request to view, and make copies for a fee.  We did that for our surveyor and saved us several hundred dollars because he was not required to drive over to that county seat and go through all of the files.

Your bids do seem quite expensive.  We had 640 acres surveyed and another common property line shot in as well for like $1200.  Took all day and a 142 round trip miles.       

[Tickhill]

whit, go ahead and bite the bullet and have a legit survey done before any chainsaw cranks up. It will be the best $ you will spend, I promise. You can then drive rebar (2' - 3') down beside the surveyor's pins, below ground level and you will always be able to find the corners with a metal detector. Also, use that 200' tape measure and film the measuring of each pin. Start at the POB (Point of Beginning) and work your way around your property. Surveyor's pins usually have a colored top with their name/license #, be sure and get this info on the video. These are all precautions that should be done. Out of common courtesy, inform your neighbors that you are having a surveyor crew on your property, if there are questions that your neighbors have concerning "your" property lines, this will usually take care of it.
A good surveyor will also create a plat drawing that shows all details of your property. Get several copies made and keep 1 in a safe location. We framed ours and is hanging on the wall.
This maybe overkill but you WILL sleep better.

[Marty]

Bayview has the right idea.  I found my pins after measuring back from 3 neighbours over.  You seem to have all of the info provided to you by the municipality.

They also might have a site plan for your neighbours cottages, which would help you establish lot lines as well.

The site plan might also be necessary before you can get a building permit.  I would enquire at the municipality.

[whit]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I have some more home work to do.