Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)

[rick91351]

Sounds like you are living the life.

I hate to say this but remember the temps now are not what they will be especially with Gore-lobal warming kicking in.  For a few months you and us as well will be in the cold zone.

According to the 'Almanac' we have a couple more good weeks then it will go to POT..... oopppsss sorry forgot you live in Washington.

[OlJarhead]

Oh I know!  I have a lot of wood to cut and chop and put away too   No rest for the weary!

I am happy to report that the batteries were at 12.33v this morning!  So after about 10 hours of runing the fridge and freezer as well as the HugesNet modem and the wireless router the batteries are still sitting at about 65% of capacity.  I'm thinking that when the frige or freezer are running that will report lower like possibly sub 12v) but once they are done cycling the bank recovers to this level.  I'll have to play with the generator setting so it doesn't come on every tiime the fridge sparks up.

Of course I'd like to see that up around 95% but considering the abuse they have taken and the length of their life (golf cart batteries are only about a 3 to 5 year battery when used like this - so I'm told) I'd say that's pretty good.  And considering I'll be adding 4 more to the bank (taking it from 8 to 12) then I'm guessing I should be able to make it more then one long night before the generator needs to run

Speaking of which, it was nice to just walk out and hit the 'manual' button and hear it come to life and start to power the cabin again (which means charging up the batteries).  I'll run it a couple hours this morning to get the batteries back up 85-95% and then let it rest while I work on the auto start.

Only bad news I have this morning is that it rained last night and is still drizzling a bit.  Why bad news?  Becuase if the sun doesn't come out today I won't have much luck getting the solar panel charging system running.  I do have a backup pan though for today:  4 golf cart batteries that I can wheel over to the well and maybe hook up in series to give me the 24vdc I need to run the pump.  Only problem I see at the moment is that I'm not sure I have cables to hook them up with.

[OlJarhead]

First up today was the well.  I did a fair amount of digging and found the broken wires.  Fixed those, rewired the float into the pump and buried the wires as well as the conduit to the solar panels with all the wire running through it. 



WHile doing that a nice 2 point buck and his mate came by to visit.  THey hung out for at least an hour!!!  Pics to follow.




Next the generator experience went into overdrive today.  First I tried to wire it up so it would charge off the inverter since it needs 120vac for the generator charger on the battery.  After much farting around I finally realized that is why they say you MUST have an inverter in order to run the generator...and inverter/charger in fact.

So realizing time was running out I ripped into the battery bank and converted to 24vdc, reconfigured the charge controller and hooked up the new inverter.  Once done I got the generator rewired for the new inverter and finally had both the battery charger on the generator hooked up and the generator hooked up to the inverter to power the cabin.

I then set to hooking up the Magnum Auto Gen start switch and after many trips back and forth and downloading manuals and diagrams I realized I could not use the autogen start until I got more wires.  I need one more to run over to the generator for the gen running sensor in the autostart switch.  Once done I should be set.

[OlJarhead]

Good morning world! 

Can't say I slept well last night, nor that I wanted to get up wen my alarm went off but it is what it is right?  Seems my sinuses DID NOT like me climbing around under the cabin nor digging and backfilling lines etc and punished me over time last night.  So at around 2am having only slept a few hours so far and fitful at that, I took some afrin actually the Western Family version) and cleared up my sinuses   THen it was off to bed and SLEEP!  Then my alarm went off and it was 5am and time to get the coffee going, and oh that coffee tasteth the best!!!

So after shaving I went and cranked up the laptop and waited for the fridge and freezer to stop cycling.  Once they quit I checkd power and it was 24.38vdc and rising!  Saw it climb to over 24.4v as I went out to hit the start button on the generator to kick it into life and give the batteries a short recharge before heading to work.

Last night as I was laying in bed I realized that I had about 50 feet of speaker wire and that the wire I needed for the generator didn't need to be big -- a match made in heaven perhaps   But I also took bag over $40 of stuff to Home Depot recently that I didn't have receipts for and the girl got confused when I wanted the credit on our account and gave me a gift card with the credit on it instead.  So I'll pick up the romex and stuff I need today and fix the recepticle problem for the freezer and wire up the last wire to the auto gen start while I'm at it.

THen if I could just figure out the stupid lights on the charge controller I'd be set!

[considerations]

Electrical and plumbing both seems to require more trips to the store per project than any other type of work on these little houses. I can relate, but sounds like you are getting more comfortable by the day. Wouldn't I love to have a push button gen. 

[OlJarhead]

So while fighting the 'how to hook up' bug with the new Auto Gen Switch etc I went into a panic when after seeing my inverter quit charging I put my multimeter into the socket the generator feeds and saw voltage readings around 135vac.  I was in a panic and thought maybe the inverter stopped excepting the power from the generator because of this.  After all, it's designed to cut off shore power that is in the excess of 135vac or below 90vac (that can be adjusted to a tighter range if needed).

Later out of curiosity I tested the output power again and it was 140vac and climbing!  YIKES!

Atill later I checked the inverter power and it showed over 140vac 

I began to suspet my 10 year old Greenlee Multimeter.  Today I bought it into the shop and tested the jacks on the wall.  First read 118vac, uh oh I thought, but dilligent in my testing (I'm known in my field as a good troubleshooter) I tested another outlet and got 121vac, then 125vac, 129, 130, 135....something aint right.  One of my techs pulled out his Fluke and it read 120vac on the same outlet my Greenlee was reading 129.9vac.

My meter went into the trash and I felt a LOT better about my readings!!!!  Now time to buy a new meter

[OlJarhead]

Had a very good chat with Magnum Energy about the auto gen start switch and it's settings.  One thing I've often struggled with is the voltage levels shown on my MPPT controller.  Often the low voltage is around 11.9vdc (when it was a 12v bank) and while I knew that was likely under a load without specifics one cannot tell.  Then this discussion confirmed what I thought and likely what someone like Don or Glenn have or would say which is 'don't trust the controller!' lol

So, with Magnum on the phone I discussed what setting to use on my system with my inverter and the consensus was 11.5v (which is really 23v on a 24v bank) so that when the batteries are under a load for more then one minute or when the bank is depleted to 23vdc the switch will kick on the generator and recharge the bank.

Which confirms my previus belief that my system was not as depleted as I thought it was, it was just running the freezer or fridge and showing lwer.

Now to fix some other issues.

[OlJarhead]

The answer to my inverter question (why it stopped charging) was to use setting #1 so the inverter would kick to AC power and charge the batteries, once fully charged it would go into float on the batteries until the generator stops and remain on AC from the generator until that time allowing me to run various other things on Generator AC only circuits.

In the other setting (o) the generator remains in inverter mode and stops charging once the batteries are topped off.  which means it detected a fully charged condition each evening and determined that it did not need to keep charging the batteries.

On a side note the two wire start on the inverter was designed for AGM systems aparently which on a 12v battery their engineer tells me, at 10.9v it is still not fully disharged.  In fact he claimed it was at 50% which shocked me.  Not sure I agree but I'm not an electrical engineer! lol

So, I'll switch to setting 1 and let you know what happens   I've also got a new voltmeter (multi) and some fuses to complete my Magnum install.  With luck I'll get that done this evening and be fully operational!

[Redoverfarm]

So what is the status?  Did you get it all ironed out?  Inquiring minds would like to know. 

[OlJarhead]

Wedding weekend for daughter so no time.  But in short no.  Had to leave and get back to it next week.

[JavaMan]

OJ, chronic fatigue syndrome is rampant among those born after 1975. Don't ask how I know.
Tickhill

I'm usually fortunate enough to have access to my kid.  When he does what he calls a "hard hour of work", I'll go out and do a hard half hour of work and then grab him and point out to him that this 58 yo fart just did 4 times as much in 1/2 the time as the 16 yo strapping young buck did.  Then I ask him, "You gonna lat a 58 yo, broken down old man show you up?"  (if his GF is there, it's even better).  Usually, I'll cut him a little slack since he doesn't have the 'experience' that I do and let him do as much in an hour as I did in a 1/2 hour. 

[OlJarhead]

Back at the cabin after a 5 day period away and I discovered some things I didn't like!  One I'd left the stove on (under the coffee pot)!!!  It was on low and the coffee pot was a little smelly but otherwise all was ok....just something I cannot afford to do again!  Yikes!

To top that off I saw the battery bank in alarm and the logs show my 24v bank had dropped to 17.9vdc on day and 20.1vdc another!  YIKES!  I ran the generator for about 3 hours and got the bank mostly charged up before bed but worry that I'm losing time to get this resolved.  On top of that my generator had a warning to 'inspect battery' and my charge controller was not working correctly.  It showed voltages for each day but did not show charging.  Odd that the voltage showed fairly high but at no time did it show absorbtion or float time so either it never got out of bulk or it's having issues.  I'll check it today when the sun is up but I'm a little worried about that and the interface was not working correctly.

I'm about ready to buy a new controller frankly as I'm tired of this Morningstar controller giving me issues.  As it is it shows alarms when there shouldn't be one (yellow red condition when it should be green/yellow and I can't get it to change).

Hate to have to spend the hundreds of dollars a new Outback would cost me but then I hate to lose the battery bank or constantly use the generator to keep it charged up....something must be fixed soon!

[Redoverfarm]

On top of that my generator had a warning to 'inspect battery' and my charge controller was not working correctly. 

Eric I wouldn't worry too much about the battery.  I set my search watts at only 5W and I used to get that all the time.  Each time for a bit I would check the voltage and it was OK so I knew it was something else.  Probably it occured when you bank dropped off. 

[OlJarhead]

My laptop hard drive is GOOD!!!!! Thanks Eric Mehling!  Seems it had just come loose because it is shorter then the slot it's on on this laptop and there isn't a noticeable le way to secure it.  So I re-inserted it and folded up some cardboard to jam behind it so it won't come loose again!

Now I need to get back to getting Wine to work in Linux so I can run the software I have to configure my charge controller and with luck I can get that sorted too

Got home this evening a little early since I was up in Oroville and so I ran up to the cistern on the ATV (the Cistern is full now) and backfilled the dirt around it to help prevent icing up in this mid 20 degree weather.  I then got into the back room and turned up the heat on the hot water and tried venting it a bit.  Still something is causing the system to run a little slow but I'll figure it out.

Then I went to the wood shed and peeled the bark off a few loads of firewood and hauled it into the cabin.  Peeling the bark off reduces the creosote build up and makes it easier to keep the cabin clean).

Finally I set about making dinner which easy because my wife loves me   I just warmed up some mixed rice, gravy and roast beef while eating a salad   Mmmm the taste of home

I should also mention that earlier today I came up to check on the power and noticed that at 1:15pm there ere shadows forming on the solar panels.  This explains much and whole I dropped some small trees today to help with this I have a few big pines I need to remove (which were marked for removal a log time ago) in order to get another hour of charging during the day this time of year.  So I fired up the generator which was clear of alarms and left it to fully charge the battery bank.  It's still charging now though I suspect it's not in bulk or absorption any more.  ANYWAY, all of that is good news so I will do some relaxing tonight

[OlJarhead]

Eric I wouldn't worry too much about the battery.  I set my search watts at only 5W and I used to get that all the time.  Each time for a bit I would check the voltage and it was OK so I knew it was something else.  Probably it occured when you bank dropped off.

Yup., I think that's it.  IN fact I think it might also be (or is only) my sleep mode in the inverter .  To test that I shut the sleep mode off and left the inverter on all day and the alarm cleared and has not come back.

[OlJarhead]

OK!  With WINE working on my laptop I was able to install MSView and download the logs off the controller and reprogram it with some slight setting changes.  I did this to see what it will do when off the generator and back to battery bank power and solar panels only.

I'm also happy to report that the change I made to the hot water (increased the flame setting) worked to increase the water temp significantly   I needed this with the very cold water I get from the cistern in the winter.  I'm also happy to report that my shower is working again too!   So ya, just a few more things to iron out and maybe I'll be able to startliving a little!

Meanwhile I'm going to reconfigure the Magnum Auto Start Switch to two wire start only and let it just start and run the generator for a few hours if the bank drops below 23.5vdc.  This should buy me some time I think.

[OlJarhead]

 

You cannot wire the auto start that way.....DOH!  I need the sense wire so I'll have to work on it this weekend.

Been running the gen for about 7 hours today.  Probably longer then I should but I wanted to give the battery bank a good charge and then float it for a while to see if that makes a difference come morning...and while doing that I'm watching TV so don't want to switch it off just yet.

[OlJarhead]

13-11-05T05:34:00.035+00:00","26.31","Green"
"2013-11-05T05:34:05.034+00:00","26.28","Green Yellow"

Logger showing the state change going to 'Green/Yellow' well above 100% SOC

"2013-11-05T05:35:05.035+00:00","25.88","Green Yellow"
"2013-11-05T05:35:10.035+00:00","25.85","Yellow"

Just above 100% and it drops to Yellow

"2013-11-05T05:40:30.035+00:00","25.29","Yellow"
"2013-11-05T05:40:35.033+00:00","25.28","Yellow Red"

Close to 95% and it gets to Yellow/Red

I stopped logging then because the normal state these days is the Yellow Red state and while I ought to find out when it drops below Red I think I can deal with that alter.  At least I now have something to show Morningstar.

[OlJarhead]

This morning the batteries were better then a 60% state of charge (the fridge or freezer was running so I'm guessing the voltage which was at 24.41vdc would have bounced to 24.5 or better when they cycle off) which I'm happy with but I am running the gen for an hour anyway to ensure they stay that way while I am at work.

Why you ask?  Because it's snowing!

Yep, that's right, it's snowing and a big wake up call for me.  I must get a lot done this weekend (since it's getting too dark to do much of anything after work):

1.  Fix generator auto start switch wiring so the auto start works.
2.  Insulate pipes under cabin to prevent freezing
3.  Install 8000 BTU heater in the compost room and install 18000 BTU heater in the cabin as backup heat.
4.  Buck up downed trees and drag logs to the sawmill
5.  Buck up tree left overs and haul to wood shed for drying
6.  Cut poles and install on open side of woodshed and finish roofing.
7.  Roof new room
8.  Seeks out dead standing trees, fall, buck, split and stack in wood shed.

and that's just a taste!

[considerations]

"and that's just a taste!"

Yeah, but if you hated it you would have rented an apartment.   

[OlJarhead]

"and that's just a taste!"

Yeah, but if you hated it you would have rented an apartment.   

no doubt! 

[OlJarhead]

Looked at the Generac wiring diagram and after some thought have decided that I have the sense wire to my generator wired correctly and so, giving that I've decided that I need to run a ground from the battery bank to the generator battery - (Neg) terminal and see what happens then.

I also picked up some ground rods since I have only one installed and that one inadequately (hit rock about 5 feet down and stopped cold.  Decided to get back to it later and never did).

With luck the 10awg stranded wire I have will be fine for a ground between the two batteries and I'll run the heavy copper wire I have for my ground rod to the ground terminal in my Midnight Solar panel (yes it's without a ground at this point).

Then I can finally start pounding in some new ground rods and perhaps with 3 of them I can get a decent ground at my rocky place and perhaps, with luck, the system will perform just a little better.

[Redoverfarm]

Looked at the Generac wiring diagram and after some thought have decided that I have the sense wire to my generator wired correctly and so, giving that I've decided that I need to run a ground from the battery bank to the generator battery - (Neg) terminal and see what happens then.

I also picked up some ground rods since I have only one installed and that one inadequately (hit rock about 5 feet down and stopped cold.  Decided to get back to it later and never did).

With luck the 10awg stranded wire I have will be fine for a ground between the two batteries and I'll run the heavy copper wire I have for my ground rod to the ground terminal in my Midnight Solar panel (yes it's without a ground at this point).

Then I can finally start pounding in some new ground rods and perhaps with 3 of them I can get a decent ground at my rocky place and perhaps, with luck, the system will perform just a little better.

There should be a DC/Neg bus bar under the cover of the control panel.  I would ground it there as the generator battery ground terminates at that as well. Not real sure but if something goes aray you could end up loosing something by tieing the grounds on different voltages together.       In addition as long as you are breaking rock you might consider grounding the generator as well.  There is a ground lug on the back ouside housing I think right behind where the selenoid sits on the inside. That should protect you a little more by tieing your grounds to the generator buss which is rod grounded .   Stands to reason that there needs to be a ground to the AGS as you are pulling a pos off of the fuel selenoid and there is nothing to make that completed circuit.  I believe mine goes to the prewired DC/AC breaker before going to the AGS from that neg DC buss.  Being that you have a different inverter it may wire differently than the Magnum inverter. But it looks like Position # 4 is that neg from the battery bank as well as the Generator battery & Hour meter fuel selenoid.

This should have been with your AGS but in case it wasn't then here it is. Pretty straight forward on the connections.

http://www.magnumenergy.com/Literature/Gen%20Wiring%20Diagrams/Generac/ME-AGS-N%20%28Generac%20ECO%20Generators%29%20Rev%207-14-2011.pdf

This is from an engineer that sets these up.  Just a little more helpfull

Your battery bank connects to position 3 of the AGS. Position 2 is for the signal coming from the hour meter. Magnum's documents show a 5-amp fuse. That's larger than necessary, but 5-amp automotive fuses are easy to get. While installing the fuses, remember they should be near (within a few inches) the battery end of the wire - not near the AGS. While the drawing shows the wires going directly to the batteries, I connect them to the bus bars in the breaker enclosure. That way only the large cables are being connected to the batteries.

[OlJarhead]

Did a little research and it seems it's ok to have different voltages grounded to the same rod.

[Redoverfarm]

Did a little research and it seems it's ok to have different voltages grounded to the same rod.

Yes the ground rod I would have to agree.  I would just be worried about grounding your battery bank to the generator battery.

I also sent you a PM