Framing: Evening the studs with the plate

Started by youngins, July 23, 2007, 03:35:15 PM

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youngins

When framing a wall with it down flat, the ends of the studs tend (due to dear 'ol gravity) not line themselves up with the plate. Being finicky, I end up putting a shim underneath the stud so the end is even with the plate. Even with a shim, a few of the studs end up 1-3 / 16ths off center.

Do others end up doing the same thing? What precision is acceptable?
"A spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down.."

rdzone

Chuck


PEG688

You should be "crowning " your studs (( putting the crown / bow [highlight]up [/highlight]so only the ends are resting on the floor platform. Studs that are "to crowned " you be the judge it's your play house / shed , but I cull out / use for blocking / backing / cripples / sill etc , any stud that has more than 3/8"  of crown I cull out as described above.  

 One think you'll find the closer all your work is to "flush" true / plumb and square etc the easier / better you product will be.

Crooked / misaligned / out of square are all things you will fight as you build .

G/L

PEG
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

youngins

#3
QuoteCrooked / misaligned / out of square are all things you will fight as you build .

It just seemed to me that a stud which did not sit evenly on the plate would be less effective, structurally speaking that is. Also, it seems to me that, if it was done over a long stretch of wall, it would play havoc with squaring the wall panel as whole, not to mention make for uneven wall board on the other side, seeing that the inside edge of the stud would protrude the wall plane.
"A spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down.."

fishing_guy

You are right to the extent that they are not perfect.  Realistically, the wall covering should cover any of these blemishes.  Wallboard or paneling will cover all but the most obvious of these bows.

From a strength standpoint, I find it hard to believe than they are that far off structually to really affect the overall project.  I guess why that is why they over-engineer projects when designing them.

As my dad used to say (he was a drywaller), "It ain't a piece of fine furniture.  We'll cover the carpenter's mistakes."  I suppose just like the finish carpenters came back and covered ours.  
A bad day of fishing beats a good day at work any day, but building something with your own hands beats anything.


Okie_Bob

Peg, you bring up a question. Why do you bother with the crown on stud walls? Does it matter if the crown is on the outside or inside? I always figured since the stud is standing verticel, the crown would make no difference. Give me some insight here, please!
Very timely thread for me as I am now staining my trimwork.
Any error you make from the start will haunt you till you finish. In my perfect world, I'd start with the foundation and not proceed until everything was straight, plum, square and true. If it took forever, I would not go to the next step until everything was perfect. Then when I'm all finished, I'd have the perfect house. The finish trim carpenter wouldn't have to hide anything the drywall guys screwed up and the drywall guys wouldn't have to cover up what the framing carpenter screwed up, etc, etc, etc.
Unfortunately, I don't have that luxury now and have to hope noone ever sees the miters that don't quite fit the way they should or the baseboards that don't exactly snug up to the walls. I just tell myself, it's good enought for the girls I go with! (Well, Mrs Okie Bob might not be happy with that phrase!)
Somewhere you have to just move on and not make everything as perfect as you'd like. But, I can tell you from experience, the small error you make at the start will only be magnified as you move on to completion.
Gee, where did that come from?
Okie Bob

John_C

Okie Bob,

I'm sure PEG will jump in here but my view is that it wouldn't matter much on the finished wall BUT it would be much easier to put finish on the wall if the crown of the studs was all in the same direction....  one in, one out would be a major PITA.

Having the crown down when you are framing the wall flat on the platform would cause the wall to sit on the middle of the studs and rock about a bit while you were working on it. It would be harder to get the ends of the studs aligned with the plates.  Crown up lets the ends of the studs touch the ground and more or less self align with the plates.



youngins

QuoteIn my perfect world, I'd start with the foundation and not proceed until everything was straight, plum, square and true. If it took forever, I would not go to the next step until everything was perfect. Then when I'm all finished, I'd have the perfect house. The finish trim carpenter wouldn't have to hide anything the drywall guys screwed up and the drywall guys wouldn't have to cover up what the framing carpenter screwed up, etc, etc, etc.

I would guess in a perfect world, the structure would not settle afterwards as well. Thats why I even question sheathing a wall as it is put up rather than waiting until the whole stick frame is put together to sheath it.  Can somebody please elaborate on the different schools of thought there?
"A spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down.."

John_C

Quote

..... waiting until the whole stick frame is put together to sheath it.  Can somebody please elaborate on the different schools of thought there?

Git'r Done.    

It's a lot slower to sheath the wall after it's up.  If you tilt up the unsheathed wall you need much more temporary bracing.  If you are doing sheathing-siding T-111  you can paint the wall before raising it saving more time.  Dimensional changes go on for a long time .. the few days we are talking about won't make much difference in the overall scheme of things.

Sometimes there are good reasons to erect the unsheathed wall..  not too often.


PEG688

JohnC Summed it up pretty well , the crown thing makes it

#1: Easier to frame the wall self align the stud ends .

#2: The crowns then all end up "out" on the wall instead of in , out , in, in , out in, out . So the "fairs in " more straight appearing .

Very few wall are dead straight / flat , making them apppear they are is the trick ;)

#3: On sheeting walls laying down , it is ALWAYS the perferred way for all the reasons John mentioned. If you deck is flat and square , and you snap a line , toe nail down the lower plate , square the wall corner to corner , tack the head down and sheet the wall , it will be  square when you tip it up , as you add more square walls together you get plumb wall , think about that one  today.

 #4: I can guess your framing stock is less than straight Chris as you've been at this for a couple of months , in that Texas heat your materials ( 2 by stock) has to be tweaking like crazy . Wood doesn't like heat / sun , as one old lumber yard guy told me , about Spruce studs , " Nail um down quick or they'll jump the fence ! " Meaning get it assembled or the stock will go to $hit,  twist , bow , split , crack etc,etc.

 G/L PEG  
 
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

MarkAndDebbie

QuoteCan somebody please elaborate on the different schools of thought there?

The only reason I briefly considered sheathing afterward was lifting the weight  of a sheathed wall. Also (not a problem on the playhouse) a big wall would be a BIG sail in the west TX wind. (I did some time in Abilene - 40mph sustained sometimes)

builderboy

I crowned all studs out but didn't cull out a few super-warped ones as PEG advises. I ended up scribing a straight(er) line and ripping 4 studs a little straighter after the wall was up - as PEG says "making them appear straight is the trick". Everything's fixable, it's just a matter of how much of your life it takes.

hobbiest

Quote
QuoteIn my perfect world, I'd start with the foundation and not proceed until everything was straight, plum, square and true. If it took forever, I would not go to the next step until everything was perfect. Then when I'm all finished, I'd have the perfect house. The finish trim carpenter wouldn't have to hide anything the drywall guys screwed up and the drywall guys wouldn't have to cover up what the framing carpenter screwed up, etc, etc, etc.

I would guess in a perfect world, the structure would not settle afterwards as well. Thats why I even question sheathing a wall as it is put up rather than waiting until the whole stick frame is put together to sheath it.  Can somebody please elaborate on the different schools of thought there?


Almost nobody does a good enough job anymore, that mistakes don't telegraph themselves, in fact, variances in material qualities sometimes effect that more than jobsite labor.  

Nothing is ever perfectly plumb, straight, level, square, even in the highest dollar new house.  It is all smoke and mirrors (though admitedly, some rely on more smoke, and bigger mirrors).  

On the west coast, (CA and OR at least) walls are often sheathed after all framing is done.  Sometimes, a shear wall will be sheathed prior to standing.  The thinking is, get the roof on as quickly as possible, so that the other trades can get in, the boss can get paid faster from the bank to keep his crew going, and take advantage of good weather when you have it.  In new england, we frame, sheath, and typar the walls before standing, only the exterior walls, and load bearing interiors are framed, then next floor, on up until the roof.  Then you come back through and frame all the rest of the interior walls.  I must admit that tilting and then bracing a bare frame is easier (lighter) than a sheathed and wrapped wall, but as long as all of the advanced thinking is taken care of, the new england way is much faster, and safer, IMO.

MountainDon

Here in NM I can't ever recall seeing a builder sheath the wall framing before standing them. The framing is  assembled on the floor (usually a slab) and stood in sections. Bracing applied diagonally on the inside of the framing. Then the sheathing, usually that black fiber stuff with maybe the corners of OSB, unless it's an upscale home, then OSB all round... hardly ever seen plywood used for sheathing. If a two story then they build the second floor once the floor beams/sheathing go in... usually trusses or wood I-beams. Then the roof trusses, OSB and either roofing felt or synthetic cover.... about 50-50. Most homes have the walls wrapped with tyvek or similar though some still go felt/chicken wire/stucco.