Sprayed foam insulation

[zeebya]

Hi, and thanks to the folks who answered my A-frame questions.
Now, about this insulation stuff... :-?

I've been digging around out there, found a fair amount of info, along with recalling my own impressions from various places, and I want to know if anyone has had experience with sprayed foam insulation on a large scale, like for a home or business.
After looking at batts, foam boards, foil blankets, etc., as I'm hoping to build an A-frame, I was thinking of going with the sprayed foam. I've seen it put to effective use in medium-to-large buildings in the cooler areas of Northern California, and figured it might work for me. My house will be in the mountains at 6,200 feet near Tehachapi, CA.
I found one company that sells kits for DIY, and the savings over having someone come in and apply it is substantial. I also have a good deal of experience applying sprays of various types to many kinds of substrates using large-bore guns, so I'm not too worried about my ability to do this. But, I still would be interested in hearing of your experiences or thoughts with foam insulation.
Thanks.

[optionguru]

One of my best customers owns a spray foam insulation company and I've seen lots of his jobs from small additions to commercial metal buildings and everyone swears by it.  They use the Icynene spray.  I live in Northern New Hampshire so I don't know if there are large differences between applications.  I have also used one of the DIY kits for a small job and found that the full truck set-up that my customer uses is far superior.  My DIY kit was good for filling gaps in a stone foundation laid in 1785 but for anything bigger I would pay up and have it done.

Good luck,
Peter

[glenn-k]

Okie Bob loves icynene.  Try the search function above the word members, above- not the one to the left of the word members.

Search icynene on this forum.

[phalynx]

Wow, I just did a little research on this.  I can't believe the cost of the equipment.  I hope these installers get a lot of jobs and I guess I understand why it is so expensive.  An equipment package is about 35-90k to start spraying..

[jraabe]

One of my favorite insulation systems is BIBS. You can search the site on that term using the site search button Glenn mentioned (above the Members label in the header above).

But I'll make it easier. Go to these pictures from the construction of the Victoria cottage, go to the bottom of the page and there are a couple of shots of the white fluff sprayed behind an open netting. In our area it costs only a few dollars more than batt insulation but fills all the little corners and voids that batts miss.

http://www.countryplans.com/vc.html

This is also a proprietary system but the entry fee is low and the labor cost is less than other options. (One house cost only $50 over the batt bid for all the walls in BIBS.)

[Amanda_931]

There are also some more insulations

Bio-Based (on the order of Icynene, but soy-based, and with, they assure me, a non-toxic, non-allergenic blowing agent)--last time I looked at Icynene I could not tell if the manufacturer was still using isocyanates (or polyisocyanates) as a blowing agent.  I avoid both, although properly cured the insulation is reported to be edible.   First link to biobased, second to an authorized dealer.

http://www.biobased.net/

http://www.satllc.com/

Cellulose, especially dense-pack cellulose.  A few years ago it was considered about the greenest insulation around.  Except for maybe wool.

And cellulose is one of the most effective.

See the sprayed--dense-pack--cellulose section a little ways down in the link, which is one of those usually pretty nice UMass papers"

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/cellulose_insulation.html

[hunter63]

Haven't seen it done yet but we have a bunch of small cqbins on "River Road" (on a river) and there is a guy spraying the undersides of these for insulation after the fact.

As most of these are up on piers, makes sense, but I would think this would pretty much stop any wiring, piping, etc on the underside.

Any body do this?

[Kodakjello]

Hey Hunter,

I'm actually planning on spraying the floor/underside of my pier and beam cabin with Icynene. I don't think it would create any problems for wiring or piping but now, on second thought, I might just go with Roxul as it's way cheaper. Plus, I'm thinking that the air infiltration bonus you get with Icynene might not be as much of a worry for a raised floor as it would be for a wall.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Shaun

[zeebya]

The recent reading I've done suggests using polyurethane foam instead of Icynene because, not only does it have a higher R-value, but under extreme heat of a fire, Icynene gives off cyanide gas, which is one of its' major components.

Just a thought.

I'm probably going to do it myself with the Handi Foam polyurethane kits unless I can find a contractor that will do it at a lower price than I've been quoted, which was around $16,000.

[Okie_Bob]

As Glenn so well stated, I am a huge fan of Icynene. I have used it before and am just about ready to use it again.
I must admit, I am not aware of the cynide problem, have not heard of it nor found anything written about it. Seems to me it would not be allowed in residential construction if true. Just my feelings, not based on any facts.

I was very surprised to see you have been quoted $16K for the job. Why so high? Are you in a difficult area to access or far far away from the contractor? I have a quote in front of me now for doing my entire new construction home for $7500 and this includes filling the 2X6 voids between the trusses, 2" under the floor, filling the side walls (2X4) and under my loft. I have a 12:12 pitch roof and 10' sidewalls. Total heated sq footage is 1400sf. If I recall correctly, the current quoted value for a 2X4 stud thickness is $1.20 per sf. And, 2X6 stud thickness is $1.50 per sf.
The R value is 3.7 per inch but, in my opinion R value is not quite as important as the fact that Icynene blown in closes all potential air leaks in the structure. I feel you can get by with a little less R value with that considered.
Also, note that I do not have any ventilation under roof. I used factory built sizzer trusses except where the loft is and there is no attic.  
Seems to me your quote is extremly out of line but, then again, you are in the People's Republic and I know prices are higher for that reason.  I'll try to post some pics once the Icynene has been blown in. Hopefully in the next month at least.
Any questions, please ask, I'm a believer.
Okie Bob

[glenn-k]

There you are, Okie BoB.  Great to have your comments.

In case of fire, please leave the building.

Lots of manmade materials make bad gasses.  (I'm a walking time bomb if I get near a flame.) :-/

My clothes---you silly ----  :-?  Always wearing these synthetic suits.  Not really.

[MountainDon]

Somehow I have a problem envisioning Glenn in polyester.....  :-?

[glenn-k]

It'll never happen again as long as I'm alive --  :-? -- if I have anything to say about it.  

[MountainDon]

And as for after death, I'm going to be toasted, so there's no danger of any polyester involvement there.

Have to pick out an urn; maybe a 50 cal ammo box

[glenn-k]

That sounds like a good plan, Don, but taxidermy also holds out some interesting rarely tried possibilities. :-/

[MountainDon]

Freeze Dry!!!   8-)  Folks do pets.  DW calls me her pet...

[zeebya]

My Godfather's (now ex-) wife used to say that when he died she wanted him taxidermy-stuffed, naked and with an erection so she could still enjoy him. I thought, "Wow, brings a whole new meaning to being 'mounted!'"

[glenn-k]

We talked it over last night --- the wife thought she may loose interest in seeing me stuffed that way after a while, so we compromised - I'll be stuffed on all fours with feet, knees and forehead concreted to the ground facing the front porch.  

She thinks I would make one heck of a bicycle stand. :-/

[zeebya]

In that configuration, you could also be used as a bench in the garden or at a bus stop. It's nice to know you'd still be useful!

[glenn-k]

Recycling - the key to the future.